The Scepters Spread Across the Sea (A Colonial Inca empire timeline)

Would a Inca Colonial empire be successful?

  • Yes

  • No

  • A few colonies here and there


Results are only viewable after voting.
So since my name is Incanian, I thought it would be good to do a thread on my second favorite empire. Now the Inca empire timelines are always the same. So I decided to do a different timeline. What if the Inca empire was a colonial one? Spreading across the Pacific ocean. Let's say the Nazcas invent the Hot air balloon as theorised, and when the Incas arrive, already armed with Hot air balloons, do the conquest of the Andes, and then adapt the invention that's existed for 2,000 years (Making it better, which you can decide the features of it, and it's used in colonization), and also, the Incas use there already pretty impressive pre-Columbian ships, and build up a navy set on discovering land, with more people to sacrifice, or to do it for the gods. (You can add on this) they set forth on a colonization mission across the Pacific. Where could they discover? Australia? New Zealand? Polynesian islands? Indonesia? And could they discover the outskirts of the rest of North America, like Patagonia, Panama, the Aztecs, or even California? And how would this affect the future of the world?

Discuss.
 
The Pacific Ocean is so utterly huge that there isn't much incentive for them to travel it. Especially since the Inca corner of the Pacific is almost bereft of islands unlike the western Pacific. If they colonised a place, I could see the Galapagos being settled, maybe by people moved from elsewhere in the Inca Empire as was their usual policy toward conquered peoples. The most important part of a seafaring Inca is the trade they'd carry on with Mesoamerica which would be huge.

The best way to get this is probably sustained contact with the Polynesians instead of the much more limited contact IOTL. The Polynesians would be settling the Galapagos, and would introduce new crops to the Andes and most relevantly, superior ship designs which would be developed further to suit the needs of the Andeans. Ironically, this probably wouldn't benefit the Inca so much as they weren't really a coastal civilisation, but instead coastal peoples like the Manteño or especially the Chimu, both of whom would be far closer to where the "Polynesian exchange" was occurring and thus get the agriculture and ship designs (and their benefits from trade) a generation before the Inca, enabling them to much more successfully resist than OTL.
 
The Pacific Ocean is so utterly huge that there isn't much incentive for them to travel it. Especially since the Inca corner of the Pacific is almost bereft of islands unlike the western Pacific. If they colonised a place, I could see the Galapagos being settled, maybe by people moved from elsewhere in the Inca Empire as was their usual policy toward conquered peoples. The most important part of a seafaring Inca is the trade they'd carry on with Mesoamerica which would be huge.

The best way to get this is probably sustained contact with the Polynesians instead of the much more limited contact IOTL. The Polynesians would be settling the Galapagos, and would introduce new crops to the Andes and most relevantly, superior ship designs which would be developed further to suit the needs of the Andeans. Ironically, this probably wouldn't benefit the Inca so much as they weren't really a coastal civilisation, but instead coastal peoples like the Manteño or especially the Chimu, both of whom would be far closer to where the "Polynesian exchange" was occurring and thus get the agriculture and ship designs (and their benefits from trade) a generation before the Inca, enabling them to much more successfully resist than OTL.

I was thinking Gallopagos, but could they colonize other Polynesian islands? Or could they also go to Central America up north?
 
There's also Cocos Island (small uninhabited Central American island). But other than that, nothing. The ocean currents go completely against you to colonise Juan Fernandez (pretty far to the south) or the nearest actual Polynesian island, Rapa Nui ,at about 2,500 miles from the South American coast (almost 5 times Galapagos). Once you hit the Galapagos islands, the currents carry you out to a very landless portion of the Atlantic.

Conquering any part of Central America would be a nightmare logistically, since they tended to have fairly developed states and all. A naval invasion almost certainly wouldn't work, and besides, shouldn't the Sapa Inca instead be going for his land-based neighbours instead of people who'd be better to trade with?
 
There's also Cocos Island (small uninhabited Central American island). But other than that, nothing. The ocean currents go completely against you to colonise Juan Fernandez (pretty far to the south) or the nearest actual Polynesian island, Rapa Nui ,at about 2,500 miles from the South American coast (almost 5 times Galapagos). Once you hit the Galapagos islands, the currents carry you out to a very landless portion of the Atlantic.

Conquering any part of Central America would be a nightmare logistically, since they tended to have fairly developed states and all. A naval invasion almost certainly wouldn't work, and besides, shouldn't the Sapa Inca instead be going for his land-based neighbours instead of people who'd be better to trade with?

What if they make it to Galapagos Island, find Polynesians, there ships, and about the trade around the South Pacific, and are then able to sail there. Also, I think they could make it to Central America if they hug the coastline. If they get the Polynesian ways of navigation and the ships, they could theoretically establish colonies on those islands. Also about the land-based neighbors, what could the Nazca Air balloons be used for? There are a few threads of the Nazca balloons, but I'm not sure if it would work or not.
 
What if they make it to Galapagos Island, find Polynesians, there ships, and about the trade around the South Pacific, and are then able to sail there. Also, I think they could make it to Central America if they hug the coastline. If they get the Polynesian ways of navigation and the ships, they could theoretically establish colonies on those islands. Also about the land-based neighbors, what could the Nazca Air balloons be used for? There are a few threads of the Nazca balloons, but I'm not sure if it would work or not.

Your biggest issue is that the center of Incan civilization: the home of the bulk of its population (particularly the "ethnically Inca" i.e not conquered and as of yet unassimilated) population, the region their social organizations and technology have been developed to operate in, best suited for their staple crop (Potato) and the source of the natural resources they value most culturally and materially (Gold and silver) are the mountain heights and vales of the Andies. The western coast of South America is dry and the soil poor both for agriculture and mineral wealth, by contrast, and difficult to get to and from the core with bulk in its own right. There is no intrinsic reason for Cuzco to pursue a coastal policy and good reasons to avoid it even if the material investment and risk of failure is low... which it isent.

Even then, there is little in the way of nearby wealth to attract them due to the lack of nearby advanced civilizations. What sane Incan expedition is going to go across the required stretches of ocean with no destination in mind to make the required discoveries. Columbus, at least, was tempted by the known riches of the Far East.
 
Good to see more Inca stuff.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't much of incentive to colonize anything at sea. There is Little of interest, at least once chickens and sweet potatoes show up. Far more value in expanding on land.

If the Poloneysians have something they really want, they might jack themselves into the trade networks, which would have interesting implications but probobly no colonies. They might pick up better sailing techniques, but still probobly no colonies. The ocean is too vast and though they might prefer conquest to trade there's still more tantalizing prospects on land.

Land based colonies are an option, but at that point it's just more Empire. Perhaps have some sort of Queacha diaspora leading to colonies outside of the Andes.
 
Wait wait, hold the phone, Is someone here saying that the nazca had air baloons?! When and how did we learn this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Naz...AUICigB&biw=1536&bih=734#imgrc=b0YUjl4u3yL7xM:
Your biggest issue is that the center of Incan civilization: the home of the bulk of its population (particularly the "ethnically Inca" i.e not conquered and as of yet unassimilated) population, the region their social organizations and technology have been developed to operate in, best suited for their staple crop (Potato) and the source of the natural resources they value most culturally and materially (Gold and silver) are the mountain heights and vales of the Andies. The western coast of South America is dry and the soil poor both for agriculture and mineral wealth, by contrast, and difficult to get to and from the core with bulk in its own right. There is no intrinsic reason for Cuzco to pursue a coastal policy and good reasons to avoid it even if the material investment and risk of failure is low... which it isent.

Even then, there is little in the way of nearby wealth to attract them due to the lack of nearby advanced civilizations. What sane Incan expedition is going to go across the required stretches of ocean with no destination in mind to make the required discoveries. Columbus, at least, was tempted by the known riches of the Far East.

Well, I guess you could have Incan priests think of the riches beyond the sea, and be inspired by the search of more bodies or something. The Incas had done far more impressive feats, I'm sure they have the ability to colonize the coastal areas. I mean, if the government popularized fishing, then colonization of the coastal areas, as a base for colonization doesn't seem so impossible to me.
 
Good to see more Inca stuff.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't much of incentive to colonize anything at sea. There is Little of interest, at least once chickens and sweet potatoes show up. Far more value in expanding on land.

If the Poloneysians have something they really want, they might jack themselves into the trade networks, which would have interesting implications but probobly no colonies. They might pick up better sailing techniques, but still probobly no colonies. The ocean is too vast and though they might prefer conquest to trade there's still more tantalizing prospects on land.

Land based colonies are an option, but at that point it's just more Empire. Perhaps have some sort of Queacha diaspora leading to colonies outside of the Andes.

Well, they might want colonies because it could be used for more people to sacrifice, but also if we change Incan Polytheism, or get the priests, and government to popularize colonization across the Ocean and Sea. I also was discussing the Nazca hot air balloons used for colonization of the Pacific and scouting the territory outside the Andes.
 
I mean, if you just want Inca-Wank frankly I'll go with King of the Uzbeks and expand into Ecuador and possibly over the Andes. Maybe you could get Incan flotillas along coastal areas or (if they get wanked enough to push into OTL Columbia) fun stuff.
 
What about the North American West Coast as a spot for colonies? The Inca coukd start out with their maritime tradition trading with Mesoamerica and then could explore farther and farther North. I think that OTL California with its mountains and fertile Central Valley could make the Incans feel right at home. The PNW natives could be interesting trade partners.
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=Naz...AUICigB&biw=1536&bih=734#imgrc=b0YUjl4u3yL7xM:


Well, I guess you could have Incan priests think of the riches beyond the sea, and be inspired by the search of more bodies or something. The Incas had done far more impressive feats, I'm sure they have the ability to colonize the coastal areas. I mean, if the government popularized fishing, then colonization of the coastal areas, as a base for colonization doesn't seem so impossible to me.

Riches? All their experiences for centuries, since the start of their higher Andian civilization, tell them those riches and people are most abundant inland. The Inca faith is also hardly a mass human sacrifice religion: they don't have the same belief that the gods need blood to make the sun move or anything, nor would a period where they feel they'd need to take drastic measures that the sparse pickings of the southern Pacific to look like an ideal option (a big crisis) be one in which the state is likely to be able to mass mobilize the labor, cultural changes, and wealth needed to establish a strong naval presence. It's not a matter of ability, per say: it's just that going out to sea is pretty much always the least visibly beneficial, highest risk, most against the inclinations of your culture and tech, ect. in pretty much any circumstances compared to any number of far more obvious policies.

That's assuming they're even willing to make that big initial and continuing investment over the long period of time it'd take to slowly, painfully evolve a naval tradition and coastal civilization from whole cloth and never be tempted to cut back to redirect their efforts to more immediate and/or profitable oppritunities/Crisises. Technological developments of this nature aren't like video games, where one looks at a tree and can see what's ahead, plot out whatever route one pleased, and know the benefits of every step along the way. The Emperor in Cuzco dosent know what (or even if) riches are out there, in what quantities and ease of access, and how much he'd have to pump in to get it until he's actually put that investment in. And considering his position he and his society are truly blind to any potential benefits and keenly aware of the benefits of using those resources closer to home.

What about the North American West Coast as a spot for colonies? The Inca coukd start out with their maritime tradition trading with Mesoamerica and then could explore farther and farther North. I think that OTL California with its mountains and fertile Central Valley could make the Incans feel right at home. The PNW natives could be interesting trade partners.

Start by trading with the relatively poor Pacific region who themselves have a poor naval tradition, over thousands of miles of unprofitable ocean with no shorter-range profit or resupply oppritunities? Even assuming the two civilizations bump up against one another, the vast difference in merchantile efficiency created by the trip would mean nobody would have the motivation to travel and compete in forgiven markets.
 
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