the russians win the russian-japanees war

Russia gets economical dominance in Manchuria instead of Japanese, the Port Arthur is from then of safely connected with the russian territory by the means of the manchurian railroad.

The rest of the gains depend on the state of Korea, is she intact and still under japanese control or is she totally occupied by the russians. But considering Korea one thing is certain; if the war gets to the point that it is going unfavorable for Japan they will offer whatever reasonable concessions they can in order to save their hold on Korea.
 
It is very difficult to imagine: Russia winning this war.
Probably nearly impossible.
But IF that happened - things would get worse for Russia in the end.

In OTL Russia's losing the russian-japanees war didn't teach Nicholas II anything. He took the risk of WW1. He was afraid, he was cautious, but did it.

But if Russia had won the japanees war in ATL Nicholas II would have gone crazy. He would have felt strong and confident and wise. Which he was not:D

He would find another, even more stupid war for his country.

And Russia would get the revolution much faster in this ATL.
 
This is relatively simple to do, at least on land: have the war last long enough for the Russians to bleed the Japanese Army white. On sea there's no contest between the Japanese Navy and the Russian.
 
This is relatively simple to do, at least on land: have the war last long enough for the Russians to bleed the Japanese Army white.
Actually it was the other way round - the Japanese managed to bleed the russian army white. It was a long long way to get reinforcements from central russia to the far east.

And the Japanese were very good on land. Good fighters! Well done! Bravo!
 
And the Japanese were very good on land. Good fighters! Well done! Bravo!

The Japanese army was brave but I doubt it could hold off the Ruskies once they start arriving in numbers. But yeah, the Russian navy was pretty useless compared with the Japanese.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Even IOTL, Japan was very nearly bankrupt by the time the peace came. If Russia had done better on land ITTL, which can be achieved by any number of different PODs, then we can see Japan suing for peace in 1905 due to the fact that they simply cannot afford to fight any longer.
 
If Russia had done better on land ITTL, which can be achieved by any number of different PODs
Yes, if we want Russia winning this war PODs are to have been on land ITTL.

I doubt it could hold off the Ruskies once they start arriving in numbers
The point is the Russians lost the war because they coud not start arriving in numbers in OTL.

Getting reinforcements from central Russia to the japanees war (to the Far East) is not as getting reinforcements say from California to New York. The main reason is not just the distance is three times longer.
The roads were different. In other words it was logistic transport catastrophe, not lines of communications.

So if we want Russia winning Japanesse war the most realistic POD must have been 10 years before this war. And that have to be Russians investing huge amounts of money to building good roads from Central russia to the Passific.

But then there would be no Japanesse war. Because the Japanesse would not be so dumb to start war against all resources of the mighty Russian zar:D
 
Winning the war

The Russian Far East Fleet was a respectable force. Had the surprise attack on Port Arthur failed, it would have been an ongoing worry for the Japanese. Next, if the Japanese loose ships to mines, and the Russians fare better, the decisive battle in the Pacific could eave Russia in commmand of the seas--or could leave no one with any capital ships out there.

If the seas are clean of heavy ships, sending the Baltic Fleet to Vladivostok becomes a war winner. The Japanese always knew that, while both sides had warships in the Pacific, Russia had a whole second fleet ready to send.

If Japan looses control of the sea, the war is over.
 
The Russian Far East Fleet was a respectable force. Had the surprise attack on Port Arthur failed, it would have been an ongoing worry for the Japanese. Next, if the Japanese loose ships to mines, and the Russians fare better, the decisive battle in the Pacific could eave Russia in commmand of the seas--or could leave no one with any capital ships out there.

If the seas are clean of heavy ships, sending the Baltic Fleet to Vladivostok becomes a war winner. The Japanese always knew that, while both sides had warships in the Pacific, Russia had a whole second fleet ready to send.

If Japan looses control of the sea, the war is over.
Its not impossible for Russia to get 'lucky' and win/stalemate at sea, but it would require them to be pretty lucky. Japanese training was on a fanatical level. Russian training, less so. I would probably say their warships were better built as well.

In anycase, GrumpyyoungMan's postwar analysis sounds pretty much correct.
 
Its not impossible for Russia to get 'lucky' and win/stalemate at sea, but it would require them to be pretty lucky. Japanese training was on a fanatical level. Russian training, less so. I would probably say their warships were better built as well.

In anycase, GrumpyyoungMan's postwar analysis sounds pretty much correct.
I thought the main reason for the Japanese victories at sea were due to the larger guns the Japanese battleships had. And that Banzai Human wave attacks of the Japanese ended up in a lot of casulties. Give the Russians more machine guns, and maybe these attacks could actually be stopped, like in WW2.
 
Draw at sea--Russia wins

Even if the sea war is a draw, with nothing effecitve left in the way of capital ships, Russia wins. The Baltic Fleet would be in rough shape after sailing half-way around the world--but there would be very little to stop them from reaching Vladiostok. Once there, they would rule the seas for long enough for peace to be made.
 
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