The Romans discover the Americas

GdwnsnHo

Banned
To be honest, after musing on this I have speculated that the getting back may be the least ASB bit of such a contact. Given that this means the initial crossing was survived, the sailors now have a rough idea of how large a distance they are dealing with. And any Roman sailor who have sailed in Britain will know about the westerlies.

So if you got sailors who have sailed around Britain, you got a rough idea of how much you'll need in provisions, and a weather system to aim for.

That doesn't mean their odds are good, but they are far better than they were coming the other way. However, nothing there will motivate them to come back. I am not sure how much gold the mesoamericans were producing in Roman times, and I can't think of any other motivation that would lead to the kind of sustained effort this needs.

Well, unless we see an Emperor consider colonisation for the sake of prestige, whilst probably better to invade/colonise Germania for that purpose, an Emperor in the west may well choose to do so rather than move the Limes.

It is a way to get rid of rivals, and means that unless/until they hit natural limits (i.e. the Appalachians) they have new Soldier/Farmer land to give away to make their armies cheaper. Chances are you'd defacto have three Roman Emperors by the end of it, but if an Emperor knows this land exists, then it could be used at the first opportunity.

After its discovery, if there is the most basic presence in the new world - we could see Emperors forcing the break up old Senatorial Estates to smallholdings in Italia, in exchange for vast tracts in the New World, we see a tax problem in the WRE reduced, with the offering of new lands able to soften any opinions of tyranny.
 
Any chance that Carthaginians and/or Celts (Veneti?) might have discovered America? Some of them might have had a motive to go, simply to get away from the Romans.

It's quite likely that they did discover it (though they might very well not have returned). I doubt that they had that strong a motive to get away, though. Settling a new continent is a multi-generational project, and the conquest phase did not last that long.
 
Any chance that Carthaginians and/or Celts (Veneti?) might have discovered America? Some of them might have had a motive to go, simply to get away from the Romans.
The Carthaginians had a vague understanding of Africa so why would they sail across the ocean to a place they don't know anything about, when, assuming they do want to escape the Romans, they can just go along the coast of West Africa. Not sure why they'd want to, but, there you go.

I'm pretty sure the Veneti were all slaughtered or made into slaves because they stood against Rome.
 
If the Romans discovered the Americas...I think the more realistic and more important question should be, is there any chance they make contacts with the Natives?

I would find it very interesting to see the impact of such interaction.
 
To be honest, after musing on this I have speculated that the getting back may be the least ASB bit of such a contact. Given that this means the initial crossing was survived, the sailors now have a rough idea of how large a distance they are dealing with. And any Roman sailor who have sailed in Britain will know about the westerlies.

So if you got sailors who have sailed around Britain, you got a rough idea of how much you'll need in provisions, and a weather system to aim for.

That doesn't mean their odds are good, but they are far better than they were coming the other way. However, nothing there will motivate them to come back. I am not sure how much gold the mesoamericans were producing in Roman times, and I can't think of any other motivation that would lead to the kind of sustained effort this needs.
But it's going to take a generation, probably, before they can build up their budding settlement enough to be able to properly build new craft, sufficiently repair the old ones, to be able to make it back. By which time, all the kids are saying 'why bother' and the original sailors are too old for the trip.

IMO.

But, yes, no way is there sustained contact, except maybe adventurers searching out fabled lands every century or so.
 
It's quite likely that they did discover it (though they might very well not have returned).

I've wondered sometimes if someone in the ancient world might indeed have found their way to the new world and then back to the old world, and written a report of it... which was later lost. It likely would have been just one more odd tale of discovery, some mysterious land 'out there', without too many copies of it floating around. We've lost so many documents from the ancient world, who knows? It might have just vanished. The odds are strongly against it having ever happened, but if it did, we just might not have any way to know about it...
 
To be honest, after musing on this I have speculated that the getting back may be the least ASB bit of such a contact. Given that this means the initial crossing was survived, the sailors now have a rough idea of how large a distance they are dealing with. And any Roman sailor who have sailed in Britain will know about the westerlies.

So if you got sailors who have sailed around Britain, you got a rough idea of how much you'll need in provisions, and a weather system to aim for.

That doesn't mean their odds are good, but they are far better than they were coming the other way. However, nothing there will motivate them to come back. I am not sure how much gold the mesoamericans were producing in Roman times, and I can't think of any other motivation that would lead to the kind of sustained effort this needs.

The problem of the Westerlies is that they influence the Atlantic a long way Northwards of probable landfall of an accidental Roman crossing which would be making use of the Canary Current and the prevailing winds which make Brazil the most likely landfall with descending probabilities the further North you go. Even if landfall was in the Caribbean, it could take years to generations before the Westerlies are ventured upon.
 
As has been discussed in related threads, Roman ships in use in the Med, the North Sea and English Channel, were not bluewater ships. They were used in coastal sailing and limited out of sight of land voyages never lasting more that 2 weeks on the longest routes in the Mediterranean. An accidental voyage across the Atlantic would be on a ship not made for Atlantic conditions without the provisions necessary for the length of the crossing.
Survival prospects: low.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Considering how difficult it was to get a hold of individual books and papers in the Roman period, I'd be tempted to suggest two PoDs.

1) Hanno the Navigator made a second trip but influenced by some greek writings, or some other curiousity/mathematics or an understanding of the currents sends an expedition out to follow the Canary Current and N.Equatorial current out to see what is there - This voyage survives in part, following it through the Caribbean and up the gulf stream, returning with simple maps in Spain. These maps survive and during the 200 year interim make it to the Library of Alexandria.

2) The Library isn't burned, preserving a great amount of knowledge (Be it no ides of march, or whatever PoD you wish)

As a butterfly of both events, Romans of significance, be they advisers, governors, an Emperor is fascinated by the map, and makes efforts to investigate and see if this is true.

Whilst there are other major butterflies from the survival of the Library - I can only imagine that nautical technology would be superior, and have the expedition return.

A bit of a push, but Carthage is more likely to discover it than Rome.
 

oberdada

Gone Fishin'
A bit of a push, but Carthage is more likely to discover it than Rome.

Now I want to see a timeline with Hannibal escaping to America from the wrath of Rome after loosing the 2. Punic War. With Elephants on board! If he can cross the alps with them, what's the Atlantic? :p

Eventually we will have a Red Indian Elephant Army, whatch out Custer!:eek:
 
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