The Romani Genocide in Yugoslavia

The Poarter

Banned
:(:(:(

What if the Yugoslavian Wars were much more brutal, in turn killing 1.4 million people instead of 140,000 people in the same time period. Furthermore what would occur if 400,000 of those people were Romani people who suffered what was clearly a genocide, which the World ignored at the time.

:eek:

Nevertheless by 2015 though, the following Countries accept that it was a Genocide:

  • Finland
  • Netherlands
  • Norway
  • Luxemburg
  • Andorra
  • Liechtenstein
  • Denmark
  • Iceland
  • New Zealand
  • Sweden
  • Estonia
  • Austria
  • Czech Republic
  • Germany
  • Switzerland
  • Ireland
  • Jamaica
  • Canada
  • Poland
  • Slovakia
  • Costa Rica
  • Namibia
  • Belgium
  • Cape Verde
  • Cyprus
What happens and how does this effect the World as we know it?



:confused:
 

abc123

Banned
I'm not sure if there was 400 000 Romanies in former Yugoslavia?:confused:

Also, why would anyone target them in conflict between Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks and Albanians? No reason whatsoever...:confused:
 
Gypsies were collateral damage who wandered into the cross-fire between Serbs, Croats, Kosovars, etc.
Since nobody respected gypsies before the civil war, they did not bother to count casualties. As for counting casualties ... any dead not clearly identifiable as type S, type C or type K could be casually listed as "type G."
Pogroms against gypsies are a European tradition, not much different than traditional pogroms against Jews.
 

The Poarter

Banned
I'm not sure if there was 400 000 Romanies in former Yugoslavia?:confused:

Also, why would anyone target them in conflict between Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks and Albanians? No reason whatsoever...:confused:


I did the math. There is around 600, 000 Gypsies in the former Yugoslavian states at the start of the war. Killing 400,000 would severely curtail their population.

Honestly I can see Gypsies being hated by all sides of the Yugoslavic Wars and being deliberately targeted by them. You know the European committee only started making a body that investigated prosecution against Romani people in 2011? That shows how racist and disliked Romani people are. In a Yugoslavic War period that is more violent I can easily see massive death tolls on a convenient minority everyone hates.

Basically they're not considered people by most Europeans at the time.

Anyways here's how I'm breaking the Non-Romani Body Count by current countries:
Slovenia: 465
Croatia: 179,126
Bosnia: 707,888
Kosovo: 110,677
Macedonia: 1,845
Total Death Toll: 1,000,000

The Romani Death by Conflicts by location is:

Slovenia: 20
Croatia: 22,500
Bosnia: 267, 000
Kosovo: 100, 480
Macedonia: 10, 000

The Total Breakdown and Death Toll by War is as follows:

Slovenia: 485
Croatia: 201, 626
Bosnia: 974, 888
Kosovo: 211, 157
Macedonia: 11, 845

Furthermore the organizations that did prosecute and murder Romani People are as follows:

Serbia Aligned Forces: 256,000
Macedonian Aligned Forces: 56,000
Kosovo Aligned Forces: 50,500
Bosnian: 35,000
Croatian Aligned Forces: 2,500

This is the list of the percent of people Each Country lost from the War according to "Official" Serbian Documents:

Slovenia:0%
Croatia: 4.2%
Bosnia: 21.5%
Kosovo: 11.3%
Macedonia: 0.6%
Serbia: 0.0%

In total the Former Yugoslavic States lost an average of 6.1% of their population in this timeline.
 

abc123

Banned
I still don't see why would someone kill Gypsies in former Yugoslavia, when all these nations have much more important enemies...

Killing Gypsies in former Yugoslavia is like Japanese in WW2 attacked Australia and then killing Aborigines instead of white Australians...

I mean, why would anybody bother?

I see much larger chances for that to happen in say Hungary or Slovakia. Highly unplausible in both countries, of course, but 1% chance is still much greater number than 0,0001% in lands of former Yugoslavia.
 
I still don't see why would someone kill Gypsies in former Yugoslavia, when all these nations have much more important enemies...

Killing Gypsies in former Yugoslavia is like Japanese in WW2 attacked Australia and then killing Aborigines instead of white Australians...

I mean, why would anybody bother?

I see much larger chances for that to happen in say Hungary or Slovakia. Highly unplausible in both countries, of course, but 1% chance is still much greater number than 0,0001% in lands of former Yugoslavia.
Many Romani were targeted by Kosovo Albanians (Kosovo Liberation Army) with the Serbs during the Kosovo War as being considered to be allied with Serbs and Serbian national interests. Romani in Kosovo are much depleted from their former numbers, and have been in both stationary and nomadic residence there since the 15th century.
Kosovo Liberation Army (Kosovo Albanians) expelled 50,000 Romani from Kosovo, forcing them to take refuge in central Serbia,[1] but many of them returned to Kosovo.

Seems KLA had some reasons to prosecute . From ethnic cleanings it's short road to genocide.

Also according to European Roma Right center many Roma settlements were burned, and many killed by KLA in 1999 and over half of Kosovo Roma population was expelled from Kosovo.
 

abc123

Banned
Seems KLA had some reasons to prosecute . From ethnic cleanings it's short road to genocide.

Also according to European Roma Right center many Roma settlements were burned, and many killed by KLA in 1999 and over half of Kosovo Roma population was expelled from Kosovo.

Well, IMO, in KLA case, it was more: We want Kosovo just for Albanians- than anything else....;)
 
I don't know a lot about the Romani in Yugoslavia in general, but I know that they were virtually non-existent in Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia-Herzegovina by the 1990s anyway. The Ustashe collaborationists back in the 1940s virtually wiped out the Roma population. After all, Jasenovac was the fourth-largest concentration camp in Europe (and the biggest not administered by Germany) and with a not-so-large Jewish population, Serbs and Gypsies were shovelled into them by the trainload :(

Unfortunately, to many Croats (partisan-supporters included), the disappearance of Romani in Croatia was seen as a positive, or at least convenient externality of Nazi-Ustashe administration. In Slovenia the Germans annexed most of it directly and there were even less Romani to begin with.

Serbia and Macedonia (I include Kosovo in this description, since I personally don't recognise the legitimacy of Kosovo, sorry if I offend any Albanian AHers) seem to have had a much larger and more intact Romani population, but I don't really know enough to contribute. That being said, the Serbs did the most 'ethnic cleansing' of the factions in the Yugoslav Wars (its probably better not to consider whether that makes them more guilty out of the many guilty parties), but Yugoslav ethnic cleansing largely had the aim of legitimising political claims and undermining local support for opponents. You can't have, lets say a Croat fifth column in Krajina if there are no Croats. But Romani can't claim their own state, so there's no reason to go out of your way to kill them off. Even the Hungarians of Vojvodina were more likely to get ethnic cleansed than the Romani, but they were left well alone.
 
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