The roman Empire Collapses during the crisis of the third century

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by The Studying Erudite, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. The Studying Erudite Member

    Jan 22, 2019
    So i have been working on this timelime for some time now. it is not finished, and i would like to get feedback. i forgot exact years and details, iv'e got that writen somewhere, but here is the basic things:

    the picts unite and become maritime, colonizing the north sea shore. rome does not care enhauf and so leave all attempted invasions before finishing, to focus elsewhere, especially persia.
    the goths are more succesful in anatolia, and when the gallic empire apears they even take the balkans.
    the gallic empire succesfuly pasess the alps, forcing peace with rome.
    rome retakes egypt from the palmyrna empire, while the sasanids just annex the rest.
    north africa, without egypt, becomes seperate but also claims to be roman.
    religious (anti-christian) violence causes economic collapse in the gothic empire that then collapse into small states.
    the alans create a kingdom and take a portion of the gothic empire.
    the sasanids take a few indian states, including the still small gupta empire, but can't go to far to fast.

    i will continue, and when i get home I'll post the years. as for what's next, i think of making egypt seccede ptolemius style and turn to the cult of isis, while rome and the sasanids slowly try to take former gothia, while thoose states try to keep independent.

    this is my first timeline so I'd love to get feedback. also, do you think the sasanids could slowly take a big part of india, or would they get stuck? how would no gupta effect india? and could the sasanids kill islam if muhamad isn't butterflied away? with no roman empire, would the huns succed counqering more or would the alanian kingdom stop them earlier?
    Dante and Hvalrossen like this.
  2. Threadmarks: Times

    The Studying Erudite Member

    Jan 22, 2019
    so now i got all the times and a few events i missed:

    Pictish Unification under some king in 163

    Roman invasion in 166 when Parthia is defeated

    Pictish success in defence and small expansion

    Roman emperors start dying, Picts left alone for some time and prepare(edited)

    Earlier invasion of Scotland: 206

    pictland and rome sign peace 210

    230 in roman Persian war Pictland invades parts of Hibernia

    In 253 when a plague was in rome Pictland expands into modern day southern Norway

    258 the goths create a kingdom in asia minor

    260 the galic empire is established. Pictland expands into Iceland

    The goths counquer the Balkans 265

    Zenobia takes Egypt 269

    270-271 the sasanids and romans kill the palmyra empire, the alans create a kindom

    276 the chersuci enter the roman empire. they fail but stay in northern italy due to chauci and semones taking theire homeland. rome expands a bit into the alps and creates a pupet state.the semones move east of fear of the romans, pushing some tribes, one failing to attack the goths.(edited)

    309 the sasanid empire counquers gupta empire and western satraps(edited)

    311 a general creates an empire in africa leaving only italy and egyptto previous rome(edited)

    323 a new state unites in the western caspian sea(edited)

    327 the rising christian population makes persecution, forcing christins to flee

    328 rebels rebel against the failing goths, splitting the gothic empire in pieces. pictland finds greenland
  3. Hvalrossen Well-Known Member

    Feb 28, 2018
    How would the Eurasian steppe be affected? By extension, how would China be affected?
    The Studying Erudite likes this.
  4. Madhav Deval Well-Known Member

    Jul 3, 2018
    Thé Sassanids conquer the guptas in 309? At this point the Guptas are a small kingdom based in an ancient city with a massive steppe nomad empire between them and the Sassanids
    Albert.Nik likes this.

    The Studying Erudite Member

    Jan 22, 2019
    eurasian steppe
    well, at this point in the fourth century the effects did not reach there quite yet, but effects would probably come alomg soon.
    Gupta empire
    well, the sasanids counquer that nomad empire and the guptas.
  6. Albert.Nik Transhumanist,Aspiring Metaphysicist Banned

    Mar 30, 2018
    That's an interesting scenario. Kushans were absorbed into the Sassanid Empire as we know. While the Eastern Kushans were absorbed into the Gupta Empire. I don't know which steppe nomadic empire you are talking about. The only empire inbetween them large enough later was that of the White Huns or Swetha Huna who appeared towards the end of the Gupta Empire. Sassanids conquest of Guptas would need them to influence the whole Kushan Empire first instead of only the Western half. Then they could annex Bactria,KPK,Kashmir,Sindh and Punjab and then begin an onward conquest of the Guptas.

    There is one problem with the Zoroastrian society though. It wouldn't take in foreigners very easily. So you have Sogdians,Tocharians,Indians,Scythians who would fall into this category and without giving them a good inlet,this empire would easily fall. So the Sassanids Zoroastrians would need to bring about large social and religious changes to stand a good chance of getting the strength to rival Rome in the West or Arabs in the south.
  7. The Studying Erudite Member

    Jan 22, 2019
    well, the roman empire has split...
    anyway, that is something to think about ;)
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  8. Hvalrossen Well-Known Member

    Feb 28, 2018
    I was wondering because there seem to be eastward migration from the eastern part of the eurasian steppe. The migration became the path of least resistance for defeated nomads. Nomads that would if they could prefer to conquer and/or raid China. Over time something resembling a domino effect, made central asia turkicised and caused or exacerbated the migration period in Europe.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  9. The Studying Erudite Member

    Jan 22, 2019
    true, but right now the tribes are going towards europe. soon the huns will arive
  10. The Studying Erudite Member

    Jan 22, 2019
  11. starman Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2016
    Valerian's army remained intact down to 260 and would've fought in Asia Minor while Gallienus acted in the balkans. In the OTL, the goths fared poorly against Roman armies in 268-70.

    I don't think Aurelian was ready to do that until 272. The sassanids did nothing.

    I doubt that would've lasted long. It wasn't the fifth century yet.

    So no edit of toleration prior to that?
  12. The Studying Erudite Member

    Jan 22, 2019
    no i mean persecution get's higher
  13. Derek Pullem Butterfly Killer

    Jan 26, 2011
    Confused - Rome appears not to have fallen. Just shrunk.

    African kingdom is unlikely to survive long as manpower is minimal compared to Rome / Egypt

    Goths occupy all of Greece and Anatolian?? That seems implausible.

    The Sassanid wank won't last long - if there was a more unstable kingdom than Rome it was the Sassanids

    No idea what Pictland (??) is doing in Iceland and Ireland
  14. Kerney defender of low probability atls everywhere

    Feb 23, 2010
    More likely than not never happens without a United Empire and a sympathetic Emperor. If the Emperor is a pathetic or merely kinda okay, after said Emperor dies people go "well, that was interesting, let's go back to what works or try what the new Emperor's says works". Without the stablity of the 4th century telling people "this Christ thing works" and children being raised in that environment, large otl scale Christianization is unlikely.

    Christains before 311 were between 5-10% of the population and defacto tolerated. In a broken empire said defacto toleration is the 'default' position. They probably muddle along for a few centuries and then get absorbed into whatever faith the rulers mandate, with a few martyrs on the way out.
  15. The Studying Erudite Member

    Jan 22, 2019
    that topic was debated on a previous thread on the 3rd century collapse. i feel like everything was said:the pagan religions where solwly going out. with a weakened rome, sol invicitus would not take ground. manicheism and all other aplatonism is too complicated and divided for most. mithraism did not even try to convert woman. as that is the case, the cult of isis was pretty much the only competition that could replace OTL christianity.