What about the October Revolution? Wouldn't that still draw Russia out of the war? Or is Russia more stable?
The Rising (And Setting) Suns.
- Thread starter CELTICEMPIRE
- Start date
What about the October Revolution? Wouldn't that still draw Russia out of the war? Or is Russia more stable?
Russia is more stable and more industrialized. Nicholas II TTL is also more open to reform, and the Duma has more power than OTL.
Remember that the war has just begun, 1916 is like OTL 1914, it will take some time before revolutionary fervor spreads across the continent.
But they will be a uprising, right? I like to see nations under Russian rule become free.
There will be many uprisings later on, I won't specify which countries though.
@DocBrown, Yes
!
The Great War, Part II, The Fight for France
After the stalemate at Beauvais, the British and French military leaders believed they had stopped the German advance. After all, Germany was diverting many divisions to fight against Russia and no large scale offensives had taken place for weeks. There seemed to be a stable front forming, with new conscripts filling the ranks on both sides and fortifications began being built. With this in mind, Douglas Haig, commander of British forces in France, ordered over 100,000 British troops to fight Italian forces in the South of France.
(Field Marshall Douglas Haig)
British forces met up with Southern French forces and met the Italian army at Castellane on May 2, 1916. The British and French forces combined numbered almost 300,000, while only 150,000 Italian and 25,000 Austro-Hungarian soldiers opposed them. There was poor coordination between the Entente armies, and while the Italians retreated, they inflicted heavy casualties on the British and French. Many Italian soldiers were veterans who fought under Luigi Cadorna in the Philippines, while most of the Southern French Army had never experienced war. 90,000 Entente soldiers lay dead on the battlefield while only 35,000 Italians and 5,000 Austro-Hungarians fell. The battle lasted the good part of two days and the Italian army fell back towards Nice where their numbers would be bolstered by new recruits arriving to the front. To make matters worse, Italy completed it conquest of Corsica by the end of the month and had invaded the French Protectorate of Tunisia. The Entente had seriously underestimated the fighting strength of Italy.
(Field Marshall Luigi Cadorna)
On June 28, German troops began attacked French positions at Compiegne and defeated the divisions stationed there. The Germans also started shelling Beauvais. The French Army then began to retreat South to Paris. They were followed by German troops and thus began the Siege of Paris on July 5, 1916. German artillery relentlessly shelled the city for days before they began their assault [1]. over two million German soldiers fought against one million French and 800,000 British troops. In the opening phases of the assault on Paris, German forces were successful, capturing most of the northern neighborhoods of the city. But on July 14, Bastille Day, as German soldiers came close to the center of the city, the defenders began to push back, inflicting heavy casualties on German forces. The French soldiers felt a sense of patriotic fervor as they held the line and fought harder than ever before. The German generals ordered a retreat to the northern suburbs of Paris on the 17th. Over 500,000 Germans died along with 400,000 Frenchmen and 300,00 British. But the defense of Paris on Bastille Day 1916 remains one of the proudest moments in French military history to this day. The front lines in Northern France would remain mostly static for the next few months.
Coming Soon: the Eastern Front
1: sadly, a multitude of cultural treasures were destroyed by German artillery bombardment.
!The Great War, Part II, The Fight for France
After the stalemate at Beauvais, the British and French military leaders believed they had stopped the German advance. After all, Germany was diverting many divisions to fight against Russia and no large scale offensives had taken place for weeks. There seemed to be a stable front forming, with new conscripts filling the ranks on both sides and fortifications began being built. With this in mind, Douglas Haig, commander of British forces in France, ordered over 100,000 British troops to fight Italian forces in the South of France.
(Field Marshall Douglas Haig)
British forces met up with Southern French forces and met the Italian army at Castellane on May 2, 1916. The British and French forces combined numbered almost 300,000, while only 150,000 Italian and 25,000 Austro-Hungarian soldiers opposed them. There was poor coordination between the Entente armies, and while the Italians retreated, they inflicted heavy casualties on the British and French. Many Italian soldiers were veterans who fought under Luigi Cadorna in the Philippines, while most of the Southern French Army had never experienced war. 90,000 Entente soldiers lay dead on the battlefield while only 35,000 Italians and 5,000 Austro-Hungarians fell. The battle lasted the good part of two days and the Italian army fell back towards Nice where their numbers would be bolstered by new recruits arriving to the front. To make matters worse, Italy completed it conquest of Corsica by the end of the month and had invaded the French Protectorate of Tunisia. The Entente had seriously underestimated the fighting strength of Italy.
(Field Marshall Luigi Cadorna)
On June 28, German troops began attacked French positions at Compiegne and defeated the divisions stationed there. The Germans also started shelling Beauvais. The French Army then began to retreat South to Paris. They were followed by German troops and thus began the Siege of Paris on July 5, 1916. German artillery relentlessly shelled the city for days before they began their assault [1]. over two million German soldiers fought against one million French and 800,000 British troops. In the opening phases of the assault on Paris, German forces were successful, capturing most of the northern neighborhoods of the city. But on July 14, Bastille Day, as German soldiers came close to the center of the city, the defenders began to push back, inflicting heavy casualties on German forces. The French soldiers felt a sense of patriotic fervor as they held the line and fought harder than ever before. The German generals ordered a retreat to the northern suburbs of Paris on the 17th. Over 500,000 Germans died along with 400,000 Frenchmen and 300,00 British. But the defense of Paris on Bastille Day 1916 remains one of the proudest moments in French military history to this day. The front lines in Northern France would remain mostly static for the next few months.
Coming Soon: the Eastern Front
1: sadly, a multitude of cultural treasures were destroyed by German artillery bombardment.
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CthulhuFhtagn
Banned
My money's on the French holding out for a bit, just like in the Franco-Prussian War. Hopefully, that gives the Brits and other French forces time to fight off the Germans.
You will learn soon enough.
One important thing to remember is that Austria-Hungary does not have to worry about a Southern front at the present, so they have more men to fight Russia, and have also already sent small forces to help Italy in France.
I just discovered the timeline now.
I'M rooting for a CP victory in Europe but the UK and Japan stealing their colonies away. A revanchist Russia/USSR and France too.
Huge huge numbers or troops for the battle of Paris and horrific casualties, I'm not sure how plausible that is within a span of a month because I can't even remember if Stalingrad or Moscow were that bloody within that span of time.
The effects must be disastrous to German moral but even more disastrous to UK+FR manpower since they lost far more troops and with a battle that horrific, Paris must have been razed and scorched, as well as the areas around it
I'M rooting for a CP victory in Europe but the UK and Japan stealing their colonies away. A revanchist Russia/USSR and France too.
Huge huge numbers or troops for the battle of Paris and horrific casualties, I'm not sure how plausible that is within a span of a month because I can't even remember if Stalingrad or Moscow were that bloody within that span of time.
The effects must be disastrous to German moral but even more disastrous to UK+FR manpower since they lost far more troops and with a battle that horrific, Paris must have been razed and scorched, as well as the areas around it
Yeah, I might go back and extend the time that German troops were fighting in Paris.
The city of Paris will definitely take a long time to rebuild, that's for sure. A lot of Parisian civilians were killed too. And news of the devastation of Paris will damage the reputation of the Triple Alliance (CP) in the eyes of the world.
I assume your casualty number include wounded and captured - else they seem too high.
Is FJ dead by now - does FF ascend the HAbsburg throne?
Is FJ dead by now - does FF ascend the HAbsburg throne?
You are correct.
Not yet, he dies later in 1916, and Yes, Franz Ferdinand will be his successor.
The Great War, Part III, The Eastern Front
In March of 1916 the Russian military command formulated a plan to defeat Germany and Austria-Hungary and hopefully end the war in a timely manner. Tsar Nicholas II was on record for not having much faith in the French and British holding out against Germany and his doubts in his allies grew as German troops came closer to Paris. So there was to be rapid mobilization of troops for a three-pronged invasion of Central Europe. The first army would attack the Germans and push towards the city of Gdansk (Danzig). There were considerably less Germans on the Eastern front than there were fighting in France, though more reinforcements were on their way. The second Russian army would push towards Krakow in Austria-Hungary. And the third army also targeted Austria-Hungary, this time at Lvov in Western Ukraine. Russian Commander Aleksei Brusilov christened the invasion "Operation Poseidon."
(Russian Infantry during Operation Poseidon)
600,000 Russian troops invaded East Prussia on May 1. Within days they made it to Königsberg [1]. They were met by 525,000 German soldiers defending the city. From May 5-11 they fought for control of the city, with the Germans holding on despite high casualties. 235,000 Russians and 190,000 Germans died in the Battle of Königsberg. But the major offensives that the Russian command put it's resources into were against Austria-Hungary, which had a much larger army in the East.
On May 4, two Russian armies attacked Austria-Hungary. over one million Russians advanced on Krakow and began shelling the city on the 6th. Then on the 7th they began their assault. The 850,000 defenders held strong, inflicting heavy losses on the Russians as they advanced. But by the 12th Russian morale began to drop, in no small part to news of the defeat at Königsberg. The Austro-Hungarian forces drove the Russians out of the city by the 14th. 200,000 Austrians and 300,000 Russians died in the battle of Krakow. The other Russian army, one and a half million strong, invaded and pushed towards Lvov but was stopped at Ternopil by just over one million Austro-Hungarians on May 8. The battle of Ternopil lasted until the 24th and in the end the Russians were decisively defeated, losing over 400,000 troops to Austria-Hungary's 150,000. Operation Poseidon ended in complete failure.
(A depiction of Hungarians defending against Russian invaders)
After Poseidon, Austrian Chief of the General Staff Conrad von Hötzendorf ordered Austro-Hungarian forces to advance into Russian territory in July. By the end of August Austrian forces captured Warsaw and a sizable portion of Russian Ukraine. Germany also drove all Russian troops from East Prussia, but did not advance very far into Russian territory, bring preoccupied with France. The situation for the Entente in Europe looked bleak as the Summer of 1916 drew to a close.
(Conrad von Hötzendorf)
Coming Soon: the Pacific theater
1: Now Kaliningrad
In March of 1916 the Russian military command formulated a plan to defeat Germany and Austria-Hungary and hopefully end the war in a timely manner. Tsar Nicholas II was on record for not having much faith in the French and British holding out against Germany and his doubts in his allies grew as German troops came closer to Paris. So there was to be rapid mobilization of troops for a three-pronged invasion of Central Europe. The first army would attack the Germans and push towards the city of Gdansk (Danzig). There were considerably less Germans on the Eastern front than there were fighting in France, though more reinforcements were on their way. The second Russian army would push towards Krakow in Austria-Hungary. And the third army also targeted Austria-Hungary, this time at Lvov in Western Ukraine. Russian Commander Aleksei Brusilov christened the invasion "Operation Poseidon."
(Russian Infantry during Operation Poseidon)
600,000 Russian troops invaded East Prussia on May 1. Within days they made it to Königsberg [1]. They were met by 525,000 German soldiers defending the city. From May 5-11 they fought for control of the city, with the Germans holding on despite high casualties. 235,000 Russians and 190,000 Germans died in the Battle of Königsberg. But the major offensives that the Russian command put it's resources into were against Austria-Hungary, which had a much larger army in the East.
On May 4, two Russian armies attacked Austria-Hungary. over one million Russians advanced on Krakow and began shelling the city on the 6th. Then on the 7th they began their assault. The 850,000 defenders held strong, inflicting heavy losses on the Russians as they advanced. But by the 12th Russian morale began to drop, in no small part to news of the defeat at Königsberg. The Austro-Hungarian forces drove the Russians out of the city by the 14th. 200,000 Austrians and 300,000 Russians died in the battle of Krakow. The other Russian army, one and a half million strong, invaded and pushed towards Lvov but was stopped at Ternopil by just over one million Austro-Hungarians on May 8. The battle of Ternopil lasted until the 24th and in the end the Russians were decisively defeated, losing over 400,000 troops to Austria-Hungary's 150,000. Operation Poseidon ended in complete failure.
(A depiction of Hungarians defending against Russian invaders)
After Poseidon, Austrian Chief of the General Staff Conrad von Hötzendorf ordered Austro-Hungarian forces to advance into Russian territory in July. By the end of August Austrian forces captured Warsaw and a sizable portion of Russian Ukraine. Germany also drove all Russian troops from East Prussia, but did not advance very far into Russian territory, bring preoccupied with France. The situation for the Entente in Europe looked bleak as the Summer of 1916 drew to a close.
(Conrad von Hötzendorf)
Coming Soon: the Pacific theater
1: Now Kaliningrad
Well, things do not look well for Russia. And A-H fighting much better in OTL I see.
Austria has more troops to spare because there is no southern front. But Russia might regroup.
Hope to have an update on Friday.
The Great War, Part IV, The Pacific Front
The Great War was not only confined to Europe. Britain, France, German, and Italy all had colonies throughout the world. Each of these four nations controlled land in the Pacific region. Russia and Japan were also active in this area of the world. It is much less famous than the fighting in Europe, but was nonetheless an important part of the war. The first battles of the Pacific Front were fought between Japan and Italy. Italy had bought the Philippines from Spain a decade earlier but had not yet completely stamped out rebellion on the islands. This played into Japanese hands when their first soldiers landed in Luzon on April 21, 1916. They came claiming to be liberators and many natives saw them that way, many Italian soldiers acted with cruelty towards the inhabitants of the Philippines. The city of Tuguegarao was the first to fall to a combined force of Japanese soldiers and Philippine rebels on May 2.
In the following months the main actions consisted of skirmishes with few large scale battles. However, the Japanese invasion inspired rebels throughout the Philippines. The Philippine rebel leader Emilio Aguinaldo greatly aided the Japanese army in Luzon. He had spent the last 20 years fighting against both Spanish and Italian forces. The officers on the ground were favorable to him and back in Tokyo he was considered a good candidate for leading the Philippines after it became "liberated." On July 20, 450,000 Japanese soldiers and 100,000 Philippine rebels assaulted Manila, defended by 400,000 Italians. After a bloody five day battle the city (and over 120,000 Italians) fell. A few days, Japanese officers and Philippine rebel leaders met together and established the Philippine Republic, which was to be a puppet state of Japan. Emilio Aguinaldo was installed as its first President on August 10, 1916.
(Flag of the Philippine Republic and Emilio Aguinaldo)
The last Italian forces on Luzon surrendered in September. Meanwhile, France sent troops from Indochina and invaded the Philippines as well. The Italians would continue to control many of the islands until 1917. The Italian Pacific Fleet was routed by combined Japanese, Russian, British, and French navies. The German Navy fared better than its Italian counterparts, and was at least a minor threat to the Entente fleets. Nevertheless, the German East Asia Squadron met the same fate as the Italian Pacific Fleet. They were defeated outside of Tsingtao, near Hawaii, at Samoa, and at the Battle of Manila Bay (June 29), 3 German and 2 Italian cruisers were destroyed by Japanese, French, and British fleets. After Manila Bay most German Naval operations were conducted by U-Boats.
(A ship in the German East Asia Squadron)
Germany lost Tsingtao to Japan on June 2. Britain took most of Kaiser Wilhelm's Land by the end of the year. By 1917 all of the minor Pacific Islands belonging to Triple Alliance nations had fallen. The Republic of Hawaii initially opted for neutrality, as there were pro-British and pro-German factions within the country. The nation grew closer to Britain during the course of the war (especially as the war seemed to be going in favor of the Entente in that region of the world). On November 1, 1916 Hawaii entered the War on the side of the Entente in exchange for British protection of the island. Hawaii's contribution to the war was minor, though a few Hawaiian troops were sent to Africa during the later stages of the war.
Coming Soon: The War in Africa
The Great War was not only confined to Europe. Britain, France, German, and Italy all had colonies throughout the world. Each of these four nations controlled land in the Pacific region. Russia and Japan were also active in this area of the world. It is much less famous than the fighting in Europe, but was nonetheless an important part of the war. The first battles of the Pacific Front were fought between Japan and Italy. Italy had bought the Philippines from Spain a decade earlier but had not yet completely stamped out rebellion on the islands. This played into Japanese hands when their first soldiers landed in Luzon on April 21, 1916. They came claiming to be liberators and many natives saw them that way, many Italian soldiers acted with cruelty towards the inhabitants of the Philippines. The city of Tuguegarao was the first to fall to a combined force of Japanese soldiers and Philippine rebels on May 2.
In the following months the main actions consisted of skirmishes with few large scale battles. However, the Japanese invasion inspired rebels throughout the Philippines. The Philippine rebel leader Emilio Aguinaldo greatly aided the Japanese army in Luzon. He had spent the last 20 years fighting against both Spanish and Italian forces. The officers on the ground were favorable to him and back in Tokyo he was considered a good candidate for leading the Philippines after it became "liberated." On July 20, 450,000 Japanese soldiers and 100,000 Philippine rebels assaulted Manila, defended by 400,000 Italians. After a bloody five day battle the city (and over 120,000 Italians) fell. A few days, Japanese officers and Philippine rebel leaders met together and established the Philippine Republic, which was to be a puppet state of Japan. Emilio Aguinaldo was installed as its first President on August 10, 1916.
(Flag of the Philippine Republic and Emilio Aguinaldo)
The last Italian forces on Luzon surrendered in September. Meanwhile, France sent troops from Indochina and invaded the Philippines as well. The Italians would continue to control many of the islands until 1917. The Italian Pacific Fleet was routed by combined Japanese, Russian, British, and French navies. The German Navy fared better than its Italian counterparts, and was at least a minor threat to the Entente fleets. Nevertheless, the German East Asia Squadron met the same fate as the Italian Pacific Fleet. They were defeated outside of Tsingtao, near Hawaii, at Samoa, and at the Battle of Manila Bay (June 29), 3 German and 2 Italian cruisers were destroyed by Japanese, French, and British fleets. After Manila Bay most German Naval operations were conducted by U-Boats.
(A ship in the German East Asia Squadron)
Germany lost Tsingtao to Japan on June 2. Britain took most of Kaiser Wilhelm's Land by the end of the year. By 1917 all of the minor Pacific Islands belonging to Triple Alliance nations had fallen. The Republic of Hawaii initially opted for neutrality, as there were pro-British and pro-German factions within the country. The nation grew closer to Britain during the course of the war (especially as the war seemed to be going in favor of the Entente in that region of the world). On November 1, 1916 Hawaii entered the War on the side of the Entente in exchange for British protection of the island. Hawaii's contribution to the war was minor, though a few Hawaiian troops were sent to Africa during the later stages of the war.
Coming Soon: The War in Africa
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Germany did not send dreadnoughts (nor did any other nations afaik) for colonial duty in OTL, so I assume that would not happen ITTL. Dreads are kept at home with the main fleet. They are too expensive to maintain abroads. In the colonies the fight is done with Cruisers of all kinds (Battlecruiser might be sent if an enemy cruiser fleet is to be destroyed - like OTL Falklands).
Japan has aquired a lot more territory this time...but the price will be much more high as in OTL they lost less then 1000 men but here the number of casualites will easily reach the 100.000 if not more; how this will shape the japanese mindset post-war is the name of the game, maybe there is a little less enthusiasm for war effort.
The philippine are out for very interesting time, if the japanese remain the same, they had just traded some amateur evil for a very professional evil.
Back to Europe, France is in dire waters, with two front and Paris under bombardement even if later saved, her manpower capacity are almost at a breaking point, not counting the greater expediture in material and the greater difficulty in getting men from Africa due to the Meditterean being a contested theatre here.
The philippine are out for very interesting time, if the japanese remain the same, they had just traded some amateur evil for a very professional evil.
Back to Europe, France is in dire waters, with two front and Paris under bombardement even if later saved, her manpower capacity are almost at a breaking point, not counting the greater expediture in material and the greater difficulty in getting men from Africa due to the Meditterean being a contested theatre here.
Yeah, I'll have to change that, I'll admit that naval warfare is an area of weakness for me.
Even if France wins they won't be in a very good position at the end of the war.