The Rise of the South

I'll give you one compliment Vektor, you sure are determined to do this your way. :rolleyes:

But please, if you're going to keep up with this, listen to these people who know what they're talking about. Your timeline is either one cliché after another, or something entirely random that you just feel like putting in there. Both are bad ideas.
 
Oh Jake m'lad. Brace yourself for impact.

Firstly: I'd recommend that you respond to people who are questioning you (that is; helping you). Otherwise you may come off as an uncoachable tool who takes his info from the 'what if?' books.

Secondly: I fear that you're commiting the same mistake that many people (including myself) commit occassionally during the writing process: posting too soon.

Third: Detail is your friend. I strongly encourage you NOT to sum up an entire year in one post unless absolutely necessary. Once in a while it's okay, but 'one year, one post shouldn't be the rule.

Finally: Don't be afraid to look up your info first, then plan stuff out. The Butterfly Effect that we all love so dearly is veeeery subtle. Butterflies gain in strength and number as time goes on, and is rooted in ChaOs theory. For example:

'Lenin only lives to 5 years old'

This is a reasonable POD, disease or crime probably got him. This would unleash the butterfly effect, but not in the way that you seem to understand it. Lenin's early death is more likely to say, result in a different communism in Russia than say get Hitler accepted into art school. The POD gives birth to the forementiones butterflies; they MUST be logically related.

In conclusion, I hope that you do what I did when my 1st TL imploded: back away from the timeline, give the scenario lots of the TLC it deserves, and then release a new and improved version. This kind of cliché-infused, unexplained, (seemingly ignorant of advice) TL will bring you no love on this site.

I hope this helps, good luck my friend. I'm glad that you're imterested in AH.
All the best, your fellow reb,
-Ash
 

Jake Vektor

Banned
Part 3:World War I
1914:Russian Czar Nicholas II is assassinated in Warsaw by a Polish nationalist. Russia suspects Hungary-who has their own interests in Poland-of being behind the assassination, depsite the flimsy evidence supporting such an idea. Russia declares war on Hungary. This prompts Germany-who had pledged to protect Hungary when it became independent-to declare war on Russia. France and Spain in turn declare war on Germany. Italy declares war on France. Germany decides to concentrate on Russia and allow Italy to deal with France. However, France is determined to bring the fight to Germany. The French army marches throught Belgium to launch a sneak attack on Germany. This brings Britain into the war. Portugal, keeping with its alliance with Britain, declares war on Spain.
1915:As war rages in Europe, Woodrow Wilson is inaugurated as president of the CSA. Wilson is concerned by the events in Europe, but he resolves not to get the Confederacy involved unless the conflict poses a direct threat to the nation. US president Theodore Roosevelt is more eager to get involved, but he also holds back.
Greece joins the war on the side of the Central Powers (Germany, Britain, Hungary, and Italy). The Ottoman Empire in turn joins the war on the side of the Entente.
1916: The US and Confederacy's neutrality is tested by unrestricted submarine warfare. French submarines torpedo ships attempting to enter British or German ports in an attempt to disrupt trade and economically starve the Central Powers.
In Europe, the war has settled into a vicious stalemate. Germany is hedged in by two long trenches, one covering Belgium and Northern France, the other extending through Prussia and Poland. Greece and Turkey battle it out in the Balkans. Spain beseiges Gibraltar, hoping to gain the British colony.
1917-The turning point of the war.
In February 1917, the Czarina-who had been acting as regent since the death of Nicholas II-abdicates. A provisional republican government takes over and attempts to continue the war effort. The Russian people, however, have been bled dry and are tired of fighting. The Bolsheviks stage a revolution in October and signs the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, dropping Russia out of the war.
In March, joint US-Confederacy intelligence uncovers a telegram sent by French diplomats to the government of Mexico. In the telegram, the French urged Mexico to reclaim the land it lost in the Mexican-American war. The French promised to aid the Mexican war effort. Mexico does not accept the offer-it is too busy dealing with internal conflict. The offer was obviously intended to prevent the USA or CSA from entering the European conflict by keeping them distracted. It has the exact opposite effect-public opinion in both countries turns against France. The US and the Confederacy both declare war on France in April 1917.* Troops from both nations are soon pouring into Europe.
As the stalemate in northern France begins to break, the French government evacutes to Bordeaux.
In the Middle East, revolts break out in the Ottoman Empire aided by the British. T.E. Lawrence leads Arab rebels to several victories over the Ottomans.
1918-The final year of the conflict. The Central Powers score several victories against the French as both sides come out of their trenches.
Gibraltar is liberated after a long siege. Spain sues for peace in August after suffering several defeats on its soil.
As CP forces close in on Bordeaux, the French people begin to rise up in discontent. Emperor Alphonse Napoleon is forced to abdicate and flees to Andorra. A provisional government takes over and signs an armistice.
1919-The Treaty of Bremen brings an official end to the "Great War" in February. France is blamed solely for the conflict and is heavily penalized. France's colonial possessions are divided between Germany and Britain. Provence and Corsica are given to Italy. Nord-Pas-de-Calais is handed over to Belgium. The area between the Seine River and the Franco-German border is demilitarized.
Confederate President Woodrow Wilson is concerned by the vindictiveness displayed by the Central Powers. He warns that punishing France too harshly could have dire consequences later on. His concerns are dismissed by the Europeans. As for the US, Theodore Roosevelt does not live to see the treaty-he dies in his sleep on January 6. His successor, Charles E. Hughes, chooses not to participate in the treaty to the resurgence of isolationism caused by Roosevelt's death.
The League of Nations is created in the summer to prevent another Great War. Wilson plans on having the CSA join, but he is incapacitated by a stroke, and the Confederate Congress votes against joining the organization.
With the war over, Europe turns its attention to reconstruction while the two Americas refocus on their own affairs. France, reeling from the conflict, attempts to build up a new Republican regime, the Third French Republic. Nobody anticipates the troubles ahead...
*It is a common cliche of Confederacy-Wins scenarios to have the USA and CSA fight on opposite sides in World War I. I decided to buck that cliche by having them allied together against the same enemy-in this case, France. Generally, I wanted to go against the timeworn cliche of the USA and CSA being rivals. Why can't they be allies instead?:D
 
Jake-
I know I just attacked your thread with a wall of text a second before...but I'm serious. You have two options here:

1. Take the advice of the community reaching out to you and become a functioning alternate historian.

or

2. Ignore everyone, keep posting your below-average timeline, and expect people to suddenly praise you.

I sincerely hope that you choose the former, since this community is a great one and can probably give you what you're looking for from it as long as you respect it. Or else, you'll soon face being completely disregarded/hated on.

The choice is yours kid.
 
As a Commissioned Officer in the CS Navy, I am almost legally required to approve of ConfederateWanks.

However this thing should be moved to the ASB Forum where it belongs.
 
As a Commissioned Officer in the CS Navy, I am almost legally required to approve of ConfederateWanks.

However this thing should be moved to the ASB Forum where it belongs.

I've been meaning to ask you how you got hitched ;D Was it VMI? Or a seperate academy?

And I feel your pain DQ...this sah is no true confedo-wank! (grumbles about Lincolnist conspirators).

Seriously Vektor, I hope you come to your senses soon and start working with the community.
 
I've been meaning to ask you how you got hitched ;D Was it VMI? Or a separate academy?
No My Dad Bought [Fund Raising for the Sons of the Confederacy] my Lieutenancy, in the old tried and true fashion, signed by the last surviving General of the Confederate High Command.
 
No My Dad Bought [Fund Raising for the Sons of the Confederacy] my Lieutenancy, in the old tried and true fashion, signed by the last surviving General of the Confederate High Command.

Wow, I was being metaphorical :D
I may have to sign myself up somehow!
Good to know that we learn something new everyday!
 

Jake Vektor

Banned
More Dixie-wankin', y'all

Part 4: Interwar Prosperity and Crisis
1920-The USA and CSA hold presidential election. US president Charles E. Hughes is defeated by Warren G. Harding. Many of the votes for Harding are cast by women voting for the first time under the 18th amendment*
In the CSA, Woodrow Wilson's VP Carter Glass is defeated by Quentin Williams*. Harding and Williams both represent a repuditation of the Progressivism of the past two decades and a desire to return to simpler times, a sentiment summed up in Harding's slogan "Return to Normalcy". At 44, Quentin Williams is the youngest man ever elected to the Confederate presidency.
1921-1923-The Harding administration becomes bogged down in corruption. Harding places blind faith in his appointed cabinet, who turn out to be both incompetent and reliant on graft. The most famous example is the "Teapot Dome" affair*. Harding dies in August 1923 and is succeeded by his VP Calvin Coolidge.
1921-1927-The Williams administration in the CSA promotes free-market policies. Living standards reach unprecendented highs. The renaissance in economics and culture would later be remembered as the "Roaring Twenties." In the US, Coolidge takes note of and mimics Williams' policies.
1922-Ireland is made a separate dominion within the British Empire, after much wrangling with Unionists and pro-independence factions.
1923-The French National Workers' Party is formed by a group of disaffected French citizens. The party is built on a platform of anti-capitalism, militarism, opposition to the Treaty of Bremen, and most importantly, anti-Semitism-a political philosophy that eventually comes to be known as fascism. The party is led by Charles de Gaulle, a WWI veteran angered at the treatment of France by the victorious Central Powers. The party starts out small, biding its time until a window of opportunity comes for them to seize power.
1925-Trouble brews in other European countries too. Poland had been granted independence by the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. It lacks part of its historical territory, however-specifically, the Baltic coast-, and irredentism is strong. This irredentism grows into militant pan-Slavism and mixes with socialism and anti-Semitism to produce a volatile mix called "Slavofascism." The chief proponent of this philosohpy is the Polish Social Nationalist Party.
1929-Herbert Hoover begins his administration with the US looking stronger than ever. In October, however, a bombshell drops-the stock market collapses, sending the US's economy spiraling into depression. Hoover responds by jawboning businesses to keep wages and prices high, pushing for heavy investment in public works, and raising tariffs*. Hoover's measures backfire, and the depression deepens. Within months, the US' tariff measures spread the woes, as the rest of the world raises tariffs too, asphyxiating trade and pummeling economies worldwide.
In the CSA, President John Nance Garner takes a different approach. He encourages traditional Confederate values of individualism and perseverance as a way to ride out the economic storm. While carrying out Garner's recommendations do not bring an immediate end to the troubles, they do help to ease the impact.
1930-The French National Workers' Party gains a majority in French parliamentary elections.
1931-Hoover creates the Reconstruction Finance Corporation.
1932-Desparate to end the Depression, the American people turn to Communist Party of the USA and their promises to end the depression with massive government action. William Z. Foster, Secretary-General of the CPUSA, wins the presidential election.
1933-President Foster begins his term by outlawing all political parties except the CPUSA. Businesses are nationlized. Any businessmen who refuse to cooperate are summarily executed for treason.
In France, Charles de Gaulle is appointed Prime Minister by President Philippe Petain. Petain hopes that de Gaulle will be able to curb the small but vocal French communist movement.
1934-President Petain dies of a "heart attack" according to official sources. Charles de Gaulle declares himself "Chef suprême" (French for Supreme Leader) of France.
The PSNP rises to power in Poland.
1935-Foster increases political repression in response to charges of failing to solve America's problems. A system of prison camps is set up in the Rocky Mountains.* As the USA grows more totalitarian, citizens begin to flee to Canada and the CSA. The tide of immigrants forces the CSA to adopt a quota.
France passes the Orleans Laws, instituting discrimination against French Jews. Poland likewise passes its own socio-political restrictions on Jews.
1936-France takes back the Seineland. The Germans do nothing, out of fear of provoking another large-scale war.
1937-War erupts between Japan and China.
1938-France demands Nord-Pas-de-Calais from Belgium. England and Germany browbeat a reluctant Belgium into giving in to France's demands. At the Treaty of Tours in March, the disputed region is ceded to France. British PM Neville Chamberlain says that the treaty would result in "peace in our time." That is not the case. Within six months of the treaty, France marches in and annexes Wallonia. Flanders created from the rest of Belgium as a French puppet state. The Belgian royal family goes into exile in England. Still, England and Germany refuse to take action.
*1: Quentin Williams is obviously not real. He is a fictional person born within the scope of this TL-1876 to be exact.
*2: If you don't know what this is, then you need to brush up on your knowledge of (real) history
*3: Contrary to government brainwashing...uhhh, I mean, "public school education", Hoover was not some uber-capitalist. He was a full-blown progressive, and his bungling attempts to resolve the Great Depression actually helped make it 'great'. When FDR took office IOTL, he did not reverse Hoover's policies but instead continued them on an even larger scale. You'll probably never hear this in a "public" school history course, thanks to the leftist, anti-capitalist influence on modern education.
 
Last edited:
*2: If you don't know what this is, then you need to brush up on your knowledge of (real) history
*3: Contrary to government brainwashing...uhhh, I mean, "public school education", Hoover was not some uber-capitalist. He was a full-blown progressive, and his bungling attempts to resolve the Great Depression actually helped make it 'great'. When FDR took office IOTL, he did not reverse Hoover's policies but instead continued them on an even larger scale. You'll probably never hear this in a "public" school history course, thanks to the leftist, anti-capitalist influence on modern education.

Ah yes, the eeeevil liberals and their continuing campaign to destroy all that is good about America...because...they're evil! :rolleyes:

Seriously, I've half-tempted to report this for trolling. But I'll agree that the least you can do is acknowledge the comments on your TL.
 
Well well well, what do we have here... ;)

To be honest, I think that I preferred this timeline when it was more or less TL-191 redux to its present state (TL-191 with a political slant).

I'm honestly not sure which bit is worst: the idea of the communists being elected out of nowhere, then randomly becoming authoritarian; the idea of the CSA becoming a modern, free-market capitalist state; the idea that John Nance Garner, of all people, could bring a state out of the depression (how did he even get elected?); or the revisionist depiction of the depression as being inflamed by progressive policies. The vilification of Charles de Gaulle gets an honorary mention.
 
Alright Vektor. I'm done.
There's only so much of this kind of nonsense I can tolerate.
If you REALLY want to become an alternate historian, send me a PM.
Otherwise, I hope your (likely short-lived) stay is fruitful.
 
If only I could get some many in-depth comments...:p
You and me both :rolleyes:. Although, I have myself to blame for creating a Maya-TL when I'm the only person here with any in-depth knowledge or even interest in Mayans.

Anyways, back on topic, yeah, I'm also feeling tempted to report this for trolling. Please, don't think everyone in the South is like ol' Jake here. This is the most shameless CS-wank I've seen, hell, it might count as the most shameless anything-wank I've seen. I'd have been nicer in critiquing this if Jake had shown any interest in listening to or at least acknowledging any of our posts and not trolling, but what we've got here... is a failure, to communicate. Now some men you just can't reach. That's what we've had here, which is the way he wants it. Well, he get's it. I don't like it any more than you men.
 
Edit 1/16/10: Since you seemed to be so worked up about the details of this TL, let me explain to you: This TL is not meant to be "realistic" or anything like that. Basically, this TL was inspired by a trip through the Alternative History Wiki, where I saw a bunch of whacked-out TLs and thought "I can top this." Therefore I set out to make a TL filled with as much ASB-ness, cliches, and unreasonable twists as possible. Another reason for making this TL is my loyalty to the South. I am a proud Neo-Confederate, and I wanted to write a TL where the CSA gets a chance to shine. So don't go telling me how unrealistic this is, because I already know and don't give a dang.
Well, that clears that up then. :rolleyes:

Well, if this really is meant to be unrealistic (and not a case of I Meant To Do That, which it sure looks like to me), then I propose it gets moved to the ASB forum.
 
You and me both :rolleyes:. Although, I have myself to blame for creating a Maya-TL when I'm the only person here with any in-depth knowledge or even interest in Mayans.

I'd like to read this TL; I remember seeing the title to it, and I thought it was a "Lands of Red and Gold" Parody, and at the time I wasn't really interested in paradies. So I'll check it out now.

Anyways, back on topic, yeah, I'm also feeling tempted to report this for trolling. Please, don't think everyone in the South is like ol' Jake here. This is the most shameless CS-wank I've seen, hell, it might count as the most shameless anything-wank I've seen. I'd have been nicer in critiquing this if Jake had shown any interest in listening to or at least acknowledging any of our posts and not trolling, but what we've got here... is a failure, to communicate. Now some men you just can't reach. That's what we've had here, which is the way he wants it. Well, he get's it. I don't like it any more than you men.

Yeah on this, I haven't read much of this "TL":rolleyes:. I just find it funny he's ignoring all the comments. I say just ignore him, he's not exactually pulling a full blown Kalbfus on us.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Jake, I think we all were patient with you. We tried to point out that yours wasn't the right approach, and that this kind of silly TL doesn't belong in this forum--in the ASB forum at best, but that's only because it's a cesspool of sophomoric wish fulfilment.

1923-The French National Workers' Party is formed by a group of disaffected French citizens. The party is built on a platform of anti-capitalism, militarism, opposition to the Treaty of Bremen, and most importantly, anti-Semitism-a political philosophy that eventually comes to be known as fascism. The party is led by Charles de Gaulle, a WWI veteran angered at the treatment of France by the victorious Central Powers. The party starts out small, biding its time until a window of opportunity comes for them to seize power.
What did I say about France turning fascist? :rolleyes: And with de Gaulle, no less, because that's probably the only French political figure you've even heard of.

*3: Contrary to government brainwashing...uhhh, I mean, "public school education", Hoover was not some uber-capitalist. He was a full-blown progressive, and his bungling attempts to resolve the Great Depression actually helped make it 'great'. When FDR took office IOTL, he did not reverse Hoover's policies but instead continued them on an even larger scale. You'll probably never hear this in a "public" school history course, thanks to the leftist, anti-capitalist influence on modern education.
What do you know, hard right historical revisionism. Not that it should be unexpected.

Basically, this TL was inspired by a trip through the Alternative History Wiki, where I saw a bunch of whacked-out TLs and thought "I can top this." Therefore I set out to make a TL filled with as much ASB-ness, cliches, and unreasonable twists as possible. Another reason for making this TL is my loyalty to the South. I am a proud Neo-Confederate, and I wanted to write a TL where the CSA gets a chance to shine. So don't go telling me how unrealistic this is, because I already know and don't give a dang.
"Loyalty to the South" :rolleyes:

Has it occurred to you that you yourself embody all the worst clichés about bitter Southerners who never got over the Civil War? If I'd made you up, people would say I was being caricatural.
 
Even Newt Gingrich thinks this is nuts

Any Confed wank ignores Shelby Foote's comments about the War of Southern Aggression-Hey Jake, you fired first:mad: Foote said "The North
always fought the South with one hand tied behind its back". The greater
a penetration INTO the North the greater the mobilization OF the North
against the South. Failure to note this is why even serious ALTERNATE
historians don't take these wanks seriously. Gingrich, a historian himself,
said even a strategic defeat at Gettysburg would only have caused the
North to mobilized further:p
Jake, you seem to have the same mindset, the same inability to simply
DO THE MATH. 27,000,000 yanks VS 9,000,000 rebs.
31,000,000 VS 5,000,000 if you count the southern blacks for the North:D
Throw in southern unionists and THAT brings another million to the party:D
now we're at 32,000,000 unionists VS 4,000,000 fire-eaters.:eek::eek::eek:
Jake, check out Gone With The Wind, and pay attention to the absolute
rank arrogance of the southern gentleman who exclaimed to Rhett Butler
at the start of the film "Why sir, everyone knows that a southerner can
whip twenty yankees!":mad: Yeah, that kind of puts your whole thread
in a nutshell:rolleyes:
Please consider going to Alien Space Bats. I practically live there just
for the fun. You can practice your work without having Jihad declared
on it:)
 
Top