The rise of the Sacred Segos. A Gaul-Hellenistic era ATL.

Thanks you! Its in my plans with this ATL to explore a Greek-Gaul fusion, but its hard since our knowledge about druids is limited.

If I were to do it, I'd hit Miranda Aldhouse Green's work. I look at Shamanism, particularly the Germanic stuff which is better documented and a "cousin faith", not so much the myth but the practices like Seidr. I'd read the historical accounts and some of the Irish legends.

Hope that is helpful.
 
If I were to do it, I'd hit Miranda Aldhouse Green's work. I look at Shamanism, particularly the Germanic stuff which is better documented and a "cousin faith", not so much the myth but the practices like Seidr. I'd read the historical accounts and some of the Irish legends.

Hope that is helpful.
Thanks for the infos. I did made a research and already used, for some minor details, some things from Irish-German legends/stories. Never the less my main influence is Caesar and Greek authors infos. Next chapter in less than 24h!
 

Skallagrim

Banned
@Sersor, you're building up a fascinating and colourful world once again! I really love how you always manage to include fascinating social and cultural changes, spinning things off in really interesting directions. And, although I've mentioned it before: those maps showing trade routes and spheres of influence etc. are very pretty!
 
Chapter 10. The Aquitaine wars.
Chapter 10. The Aquitaine wars.

240-239 BC.


In 240 BC, Xenon directed his attention towards the Aquitaine tribes west of Tolosa, where the strong Sotiates tribe was causing troubles on his highly profitable trade network on the Garonne river. In the spring of 239BC, Xenon invaded Sotiates lands,leaving his son Ariogaisos, age 17 now, in charge as regent and heir apparent. During Xenon’s absence, the Celtiberian tribe of Elesyces revolted. Ariogaisos responded quickly and with a small force marched south to subdue the revolt. Ariogaisos conducted a hard-fought guerrilla campaign against the Elesyes for several months, during which he was seriously wounded( loosing his left hand).


The Aquitaine war


The opening encounter between Xenon and the Sotiates involved a large scale battle. The Sotiates king, Adcantuni, deliberately planned for his cavalry to break off the fight and lure the Gauls into a trap. Despite this partly successful trap/ambush, the Sosiates lost the battle against the numerous and better trained and equipped Volcae army. Adcantuni withdraw with his remaining forces into his fortified stronghold capital, Sotium.
Tte83sH.jpg


Xenon responded by erecting siege towers and the two sides sparred for a while. Eventually, the Sosiates sent emissaries to Xenon offering to surrender. Xenon accepted and ordered them to begin stacking their arms. However, as this was being done, Adcantuni and 400 of his most elite warriors suddenly attacked the Gauls. After a ferocious hand to hand battle, all the Sosiates warriors fell dead. Xenon infuriated by this attack killed all the male population of Sotium and all the women and children were sold into slavery.

When news of the Sotiates defeat spread, the Aquitaine tribes farther south began efforts to form a coalition to fight the Volcae. Upon hearing the news of this coalition Xenon stormed with his army to the south to deal with any potential threats. After some small skirmishes he arrived to Bigorra, the fortified capital of Bigerrones.

Upon arriving, Xenon camped near the northern side of the city and deemed the northern walls as the weakest. Three days during the siege, a relief army of the Tarbelli and Conveni tribes arrived at Bigorra. With the relief army arrival the Bigerrones found the courage to exit the walls and engage the Gauls. After another brutal battle the combined Aquitane forces were utterly crushed. The sacred segos once again proved to be a lethal force and no match for the rather poor equipment Aquitaine warriors. After establishing a garrison, Xenon left Bigorra and marched for Tarbellica the capital of the Tarbeli tribe.
rNR0mFW.jpg


Having heard of the latest battle, the greatest part of Aquitaine fearing the fate of Sotium surrendered itself to Xenon, and of its own accord sent nobles as hostages. Tarbelli,Bigerrones and Conveni were forced to a vassal status with Gaul garrisons in their capitals. All of Sosiates tribe were sold as slaves and their lands were distributed among the Gaul warriors.

iIcCmJ6.jpg


Illustration of a Noble Gaul warrior( pretty close to what a sacred segos warrior would look like):
Fp1gk4t.jpg
 
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@Sersor, you're building up a fascinating and colourful world once again! I really love how you always manage to include fascinating social and cultural changes, spinning things off in really interesting directions. And, although I've mentioned it before: those maps showing trade routes and spheres of influence etc. are very pretty!
Thank you very much my friend!

Great update @Sersor! I love the wiki approach with all this maps and details. I am curious to see a fight between sacred segos and roman legions...
Thank you! I am curious to see this fight also.

As you can see there are lots of similarities in gear:
p9paR0D.jpg
Fp1gk4t.jpg




Interesting concept. Subscribed!

Thank you!
 

Skallagrim

Banned
The relationship with the Greek city-states must, almost certainly, be quite good. If it were otherwise, a large-scale campaign into the west would be impossible on account of the Greeks attacking your eastern holdings as soon as you're a good distance away...

The relation with the Greeks may also factor into the realities of a possible confrontation between the Sacred segos and the Roman legions. This TL is entirely post-Pyrrhos, and the Phalanx has been discredited. I imagine this is well-known. Mercenaries of the period could end up all over the Med, taking experience with them. So just from that, the knowledge that "they way those Romans do it is pretty solid" must have spread. Certainly the Greek cities in the west, often using Greek mercenaries (including veterans from earlier campaigns), will be well aware of this. Xenon is not afraid of using Hellenic knowledge, co-opting the idea of the Sacred Band and putting a Celtic spin on it. If his relation with the Greeks is good, he'll be fully up to date on the latest military developments. He'll know that if he ever has to face Rome, a "mere imitation" of the Sacred Bands of old will not suffice.
 
Expanding on what @Skallagrim said, the idea of Gallic Manipular Heavy Infantry is quite scary in and of itself. Especially if they circumvent any need for part of the Marian Reforms, and ensure they have a huge pool for the Segos by allowing anyone who serves to be considered Volcae, or Citizen, or what have you.

The best case would be a Xenon or an ally being familiar with WHY the Phalanx became a legend - Mixed Arms. Reliable use of mixed arms could well undermine the Romans entirely - and be the key to protecting the Volcae long-term.
 
Expanding on what @Skallagrim said, the idea of Gallic Manipular Heavy Infantry is quite scary in and of itself. Especially if they circumvent any need for part of the Marian Reforms, and ensure they have a huge pool for the Segos by allowing anyone who serves to be considered Volcae, or Citizen, or what have you.

The best case would be a Xenon or an ally being familiar with WHY the Phalanx became a legend - Mixed Arms. Reliable use of mixed arms could well undermine the Romans entirely - and be the key to protecting the Volcae long-term.
Hannibal seems to be the one who knew.

But I wonder,what would happen if a Swiss-like pikemen formation was deployed against the Romans instead of a Macedonian one?
 
Hannibal seems to be the one who knew.

But I wonder,what would happen if a Swiss-like pikemen formation was deployed against the Romans instead of a Macedonian one?

Smaller formations, with pike squares? No shield, but a mix of weapons? Could be interesting. Someone needs to invent the Halberd though, and the greatsword. I'm not sure it is required yet either.

I think smaller, more flexible formations (i.e. able to do more than just cover the front) may be a huge deal, able to better handle rough terrain, especially if trained to use different formations so they don't break on the rough terrain.

That might just be enough to butterfly the supremacy of the legions with the Segos though. Flexibility, Drilling, Numbers. Considering the Segos are professionals too, they could be afforded provided heavier armour to boot.

I wonder if the Garonne Campaign would be an opportunity to make the Segos an absurdly tough force - moreso even than now. Having more control over the recovering trade routes could fund it all.
 
What is the relationship of this kingdom with the nearby Greek city states?
The relationship with the Greek city-states must, almost certainly, be quite good. If it were otherwise, a large-scale campaign into the west would be impossible on account of the Greeks attacking your eastern holdings as soon as you're a good distance away...

Emporion,Rhoda are the best trade partners of Xenon, so their relations are really good. The relations with Massalia and her colonies is rather ok. Since the fight with his father, Xenon never returned back to Massalia.

The relation with the Greeks may also factor into the realities of a possible confrontation between the Sacred segos and the Roman legions. This TL is entirely post-Pyrrhos, and the Phalanx has been discredited. I imagine this is well-known. Mercenaries of the period could end up all over the Med, taking experience with them. So just from that, the knowledge that "they way those Romans do it is pretty solid" must have spread. Certainly the Greek cities in the west, often using Greek mercenaries (including veterans from earlier campaigns), will be well aware of this. Xenon is not afraid of using Hellenic knowledge, co-opting the idea of the Sacred Band and putting a Celtic spin on it. If his relation with the Greeks is good, he'll be fully up to date on the latest military developments. He'll know that if he ever has to face Rome, a "mere imitation" of the Sacred Bands of old will not suffice.
The best case would be a Xenon or an ally being familiar with WHY the Phalanx became a legend - Mixed Arms. Reliable use of mixed arms could well undermine the Romans entirely - and be the key to protecting the Volcae long-term.

You are right, Xenon is full aware of the latest military developments. His sacred band imitation is more based on the logistic structure of them(standing army-regular drills). In the field the sacred segos are more close to the gaulish-roman type of warfare.

Xenon's background:

In his 3 month stay at Syracuse he meet Hieronymus of Rhodes.

We know from OTL that Hieronymous was aware of the Sacred Band of Thebes(wrote about them in one of his books) so in this ATL Xenon was inspired by his talks with him.

C) At syracuse Xenon stayed at the house of Aristos. Aristos was a wealthy trader and the proxenos of Massalia and Rhodes at Syracuse during that time. He was also famous for his private library,one of the biggest in Syracuse. It was there that Xenon read in detail the stories of Alexander the great and other famous Greek generals.
Besides the influence of Hieronymous Xenon gained lot of informations from Aristos library.

Xenon was 18 years old In 262 BC when Massalia unofficially helped Rome against Carthage. During the siege of Agrigentum, 6 massalian warships(including a trireme of Euaristos, with him and Xenon on board) were supporting the Roman supply base at Erbessus. The garrison of Agrigentum managed to call for reinforcements and a Carthaginian relief force commanded by Hanno came to the rescue and destroyed the Roman supply base at Erbessus. Eusevios trireme was the only Massalian ship that managed to escape. Nevertheless, after a few skirmishes, the battle of Agrigentum was won by Rome, and the city fall.
Xenon was aware to a point of the Carthaginian and Roman style of warfare.

.......................................................

Expanding on what @Skallagrim said, the idea of Gallic Manipular Heavy Infantry is quite scary in and of itself. Especially if they circumvent any need for part of the Marian Reforms, and ensure they have a huge pool for the Segos by allowing anyone who serves to be considered Volcae, or Citizen, or what have you.

This is indeed quite scary ;)
 
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Hannibal seems to be the one who knew.

But I wonder,what would happen if a Swiss-like pikemen formation was deployed against the Romans instead of a Macedonian one?
Depends, before the Marian reforms i beat forma the Swiss after i don't know
 
But I wonder,what would happen if a Swiss-like pikemen formation was deployed against the Romans instead of a Macedonian one?

Hmm thats interesting comparison. I can see some similarities.

Smaller formations, with pike squares? No shield, but a mix of weapons? Could be interesting. Someone needs to invent the Halberd though, and the greatsword. I'm not sure it is required yet either.

I think smaller, more flexible formations (i.e. able to do more than just cover the front) may be a huge deal, able to better handle rough terrain, especially if trained to use different formations so they don't break on the rough terrain.

That might just be enough to butterfly the supremacy of the legions with the Segos though. Flexibility, Drilling, Numbers. Considering the Segos are professionals too, they could be afforded provided heavier armour to boot.

Good points and ideas!

Sacred segos(up to this point) were used mostly as shock troops and relied more on a straightforward steamroller assault. They could also form a shield wall and use one of their two harpoon type javelin in a volley charge. Last but not least they were a standing army, flexible and capable of discipline drilling moves. The Roman Republican army of this period, like its earlier forebear, did not maintain standing or professional military forces, but levied them, by compulsory conscription, as required for each campaigning season and disbanded thereafter (although formations could be kept in being over winter during major wars). The manipular legion formation of this period is their biggest weapon(together with a big man pool and war commitment).
 
I wonder if the Garonne Campaign would be an opportunity to make the Segos an absurdly tough force - moreso even than now. Having more control over the recovering trade routes could fund it all.
For sure the Aquitaine campaign will boost Segos experience. The trade network is greatly supporting Xenon treasury but the most important source of income is the old mines of Tolosa.
 
Sacred segos(up to this point) were used mostly as shock troops and relied more on a straightforward steamroller assault. They could also form a shield wall and use one of their two harpoon type javelin in a volley charge. Last but not least they were a standing army, flexible and capable of discipline drilling moves. The Roman Republican army of this period, like its earlier forebear, did not maintain standing or professional military forces, but levied them, by compulsory conscription, as required for each campaigning season and disbanded thereafter (although formations could be kept in being over winter during major wars). The manipular legion formation of this period is their biggest weapon(together with a big man pool and war commitment).
judging from the description segos looks similar to a more aggressive roman triarii.

Flexibility, Drilling, Numbers. Considering the Segos are professionals too, they could be afforded provided heavier armour to boot.
Their professionalism and good equipment are their biggest advance IMO.
 
Smaller formations, with pike squares? No shield, but a mix of weapons? Could be interesting. Someone needs to invent the Halberd though, and the greatsword. I'm not sure it is required yet either.

I think smaller, more flexible formations (i.e. able to do more than just cover the front) may be a huge deal, able to better handle rough terrain, especially if trained to use different formations so they don't break on the rough terrain.

That might just be enough to butterfly the supremacy of the legions with the Segos though. Flexibility, Drilling, Numbers. Considering the Segos are professionals too, they could be afforded provided heavier armour to boot.

I wonder if the Garonne Campaign would be an opportunity to make the Segos an absurdly tough force - moreso even than now. Having more control over the recovering trade routes could fund it all.
Considering how shit the current armour is,I think having them carry shields might be a better idea—but only like the way the Macedonian phalanx carries them?

About greatswords,I was under the impression that either Celts and the German tribes of the day used rather long swords.
 
Chapter 11. 240-237 BC update
Chapter 11. 240-237 BC world update(Plus minor South Gaul 238-237 BC update)


South Gaul 238-237 BC:

The Gabati and several other minor Gaul tribes North-east of Tolosa, under the pressure of Vocontii raids, pledged to be part of Xenon’s kingdom.

CKvL5nq.jpg



News/Events around the world 240-237 BC :


By place 240 BC:

Carthage

  • Two of Carthage's mercenary commanders – Spendius and Mathos – convince the Libyan conscripts in the mercenary army, that is currently occupying the Carthaginian city of Tunis, to accept their leadership. They persuade the native Libyans that Carthage will take revenge against them for their part in the conflict once the foreign mercenaries are paid and sent home. They then convince the combined mercenary armies to revolt against Carthage and convince the various native Libyan towns and cities to back the revolt. Spendius and Mathos then take the Carthaginian commander Gesco as a hostage. What has started as an argument over pay owed to soldiers by the Carthaginian Government, explodes into a full-scale revolt, known as the Mercenary War.
  • The Libyan forces loyal to the mercenaries besiege the towns of Utica and Hippacritae, which refuse to defect to the mercenaries.
  • Hanno the Great is given command of the Carthaginian forces. However, the mercenaries defeat the Carthaginian armies in the Battle of Utica.
  • Carthage decides to give Hamilcar Barca joint command with Hanno the Great. Hamilcar Barca is able to end the siege of Utica by the mercenaries. He is then placed in complete command of the Carthaginian forces and defeats the mercenaries in the Battle of the Bagradas River.
  • After the Numidian mercenary leader Narawas defects to Hamilcar Barca, Numidian reinforcements (about 2,000 men) help him defeat the mercenaries again. Hamilcar pardons his captured prisoners, accepting into his army anyone who will fight for Carthage, and exiling anyone who will not.
Roman Republic
  • Rome takes over full control of Sicily and stations a legion there.


By place 239 BC:

Carthage
  • Concerned that Hamilcar Barca's leniency in pardoning those who he has captured who have participated in the Mercenary War will encourage others to defect, Mathos and Spendius order the mutilation and execution of "about seven hundred" Carthaginian prisoners, including Gesco. With the mercenaries jointly guilty of these atrocities, defectors dare not face Carthaginian justice under Hamilcar.
  • Carthage is besieged by the mercenary armies, while the city of Utica revolts and attempts to secede from Carthage.
Greece
  • Antigonus II, King of Macedonia, dies and is succeeded by his son, Demetrius II.
  • With Aetolia now as its ally, the Achaean League under the command of Aratus of Sicyon repeatedly attack Athens and Argos.
Seleucid Empire
  • Seleucus II's brother Antiochus Hierax, who is governor of Seleucid Anatolia, sends an army into Syria ostensibly to assist Seleucus but actually to seize the rest of the empire. After achieving peace with Egypt, Seleucus II promptly invades Anatolia and begins the "War of the Brothers".
Persia
  • Diodotus of Bactria defeats an army of Parthians. He dies shortly thereafter and is succeeded by his son Diodotus II.


By place 238 BC:

Carthage


  • Hamilcar Barca strikes at the supply lines of the mercenary army besieging Carthage, forcing them to cease the siege of the city. He then fights a series of running engagements with the mercenary armies, keeping them off balance. Hamilcar manages to force the mercenary armies into a box canyon in the Battle of "The Saw". The mercenaries are besieged in the canyon.
  • The mercenary army, under the leadership of Spendius, attempts to fight its way out of the siege but is totally defeated by the Carthaginian forces led by Hamilcar Barca. After the battle, Hamilcar executes some 40,000 rebel mercenaries.
  • Hamilcar's armies capture a number of rebel Libyan cities. The Libyan settlements that have rebelled surrender to Carthage, with the exception of Utica and Hippacritae.
  • Hamilcar and another Carthaginian general, Hannibal, besiege Mathos' mercenary army at Tunis and crucify the captured mercenary leaders in sight of the mercenary battlements.
  • Mathos exploits a weakness in Hannibal's defenses and launches an attack against his army, capturing Hannibal and several other high ranking Carthaginians. The mercenaries then crucify the captured Carthaginian leaders.
  • Carthaginian reinforcements led by Hanno the Great join the battle. They defeat Mathos' mercenary forces and Mathos is captured.
  • The Carthaginian armies besiege and capture Utica and Hippacritae. This ends the Carthaginian civil war.
  • The Romans declare war on the Carthaginians over which state controls Sardinia. However, Carthage defers to Rome rather than enter yet another war and gives up any claim to Sardinia.
Ptolemaic Egypt
  • The Decree of Canopus, also called "Table of Tanis", is a memorial stone promulgated by an assemblage of priests in honour of Ptolemy III Euergetes and his consort Berenice.
Persia
  • Arsaces, chief of an Iranian nomad tribe, the Parni, invades and conquers Parthia killing in the process the local ruler Andragoras.

By place 237 BC:

Carthage

  • Hamilcar Barca's success in defeating the mercenaries results in a growth in his strength as leader of Carthage's popular party and support for his proposed invasion of the Iberian Peninsula. However, as spokesman for the landed nobility, Hanno opposes the policy of foreign conquest pursued by Hamilcar Barca. Nevertheless, Hamilcar Barca leads a Carthaginian army in an invasion of the Iberian Peninsula with the aim of building a base from which war with Rome can be renewed. By skilful generalship and able diplomacy, Hamilcar extends Carthaginian dominion over many Spanish tribes.
 
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