What ideology should Stahl follow?

  • Communism

    Votes: 19 35.2%
  • Nationalist Socialism/Stahlism

    Votes: 35 64.8%

  • Total voters
    54
  • Poll closed .
"Stalin is one of the most extraordinary figures in world history."

~OTL Hitler.

I guess Hitler would say that here but in a much more serious tone.
 
It could be interesting to see Stahl wanting to help anti-Soviet Russians/Slavs and offer them a place in the Lebensraum due to his own heritage, whereas Hitler wants nothing to do with the Slavs and would prefer to outright kill them, regardless of their anti-Communist values. Who would take the place of Stalin in the Soviet Union?
"To tell the truth, I feel much more sympathetically inclined to the purest of Russians than to any of those arrogant islanders and Frenchmen."
~Joseph Stahl talking to peers Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler about the pro-German Soviets.
 
Maybe Bukharin would take Stalin’s place as leader of the USSR ITTL?
"Bukharin is one of the most extraordinary figures in world history. He began as a small clerk, and he has never stopped being a clerk. Bukharin owes nothing to rhetoric. He governs from his office, thanks to a bureaucracy that obeys his every nod and gesture. It's striking that Russian propaganda, in the criticisms it makes of us, always holds itself within certain limits. Bukharin is apparently quite ready to abandon European Russia, if he thinks that a failure to solve her problems would cause him to lose everything. Let nobody think Bukharin might reconquer Europe from the Urals! It is as if I were installed in Slovakia, and could set out from there to reconquer the Reich. This is the catastrophe that will cause the loss of the Soviet Empire.”

~Joseph Stahl on Nikolai Bukharin.
 
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Implausible as it sounds, I'd be very interested in seeing a scenario where Stahl's support for the Russian fascists and "pure" Russians creates a fascist uprising and another Russian Civil War happens as a result, or maybe even a part of Russia joining the Axis against the USSR. So that Stahl would still pursue his invasion of the USSR but spare some Russians and allow them to take part in his Lebensraum. He'd still be extremely brutal to Kazakhs, Georgians, Jews, etc. though.
 
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Fuhrer Stahl and Hitler walking with troops (1941)
upload_2019-5-5_22-44-57.png
 

Starforce

Banned
The concept of a dual leadership, sort of is very interesting to me. I never have seen examples of that irl as far as I know.

What would Stahl think of America, and Britain?
 
The concept of a dual leadership, sort of is very interesting to me. I never have seen examples of that irl as far as I know.

What would Stahl think of America, and Britain?
He would likely accuse them of being corrupted by Jewish Influence like how most Nazi propaganda viewed other neighboring democracies.

Implausible as it sounds, I'd be very interested in seeing a scenario where Stahl's support for the Russian fascists and "pure" Russians creates a fascist uprising and another Russian Civil War happens as a result, or maybe even a part of Russia joining the Axis against the USSR. So that Stahl would still pursue his invasion of the USSR but spare some Russians and allow them to take part in his Lebensraum. He'd still be extremely brutal to Kazakhs, Georgians, Jews, etc. though.
I don't think Georgians would be victims of persecutions since Stahl is Georgian himself.

Also for a Fascist Russia, I could see Stahl work with Russian Fascists - Konstantin Rodzaevsky and Anastasy Vonsiatsky. But I don't think they would realistically lebensraum Russia (It wouldn't bode well with potential Russian Fascists allies and could be a burden with high level of dissent within occupied Russia), at best I could see a Fascist Russia similar to Wang Jingwei's Reorganized Republic of China which was a Pro-Japanese Puppet State during the Japanese invasion. Also for a Fascist Russia's Military, I could see it reduced to 300,000 - 600,000 men (instead of 100,000) much like the Collaborationist Chinese Army, since Russia is large and well there is a lot of ground to cover in Russia.

I mean they only want more land for farming space. So why not reduce lebensraum to Poland and Ukraine and not Russia, while a Puppet Fascist Russia can distribute crops to Germany?
 
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The concept of a dual leadership, sort of is very interesting to me. I never have seen examples of that irl as far as I know.

What would Stahl think of America, and Britain?
Indeed. I'd like the idea of both of them being recognised as figures, maybe both of them do speeches separately? Maybe they're seen as the "Two Faces of Germany"? Idea of a dual dictatorship sounds very interesting to me now that I think of it.

As for the last part, maybe Stahl shows appreciation for the British Empire itself but he wouldn't like FDR and Winston Churchill themselves. Hitler hated FDR in OTL because of his aristocracy and shared a similar view for Churchill, don't think it would be too different for Stahl. Overall, he would hate democracies just like Hitler. I concur with @AZNMAGICMAN for the most part.
 
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I wonder if Reinhard Heydrich will be utilised by Stahl?
Perhaps he uses him like usual being both a high-ranking SS Officer and head of Secret Police. Although I can imagine him be like Beria, minus the pedophilia.

Although there is also Himmler. But he may be loyal to Hitler.

It would be interesting seeing Factionalism in the Nazi Party and the SS. You have Heydrich leading the Pro-Stahl Faction of SS, and then there is Himmler leading the Pro-Hitler Faction of the SS.

It would be ironic if the reasons why Germany lost the war was due to Factionalism within the Nazi Party.

Also speaking of splits and Heydrich/Himmler, it reminds of the HOI4 mod in development The New Order: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...n-axis-victory-cold-war-mod-for-hoiiv.430817/

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He would likely accuse them of being corrupted by Jewish Influence like how most Nazi propaganda viewed other neighboring democracies.


I don't think Georgians would be victims of persecutions since Stahl is Georgian himself.

Also for a Fascist Russia, I could see Stahl work with Russian Fascists - Konstantin Rodzaevsky and Anastasy Vonsiatsky. But I don't think they would realistically lebensraum Russia (It wouldn't bode well with potential Russian Fascists allies and could be a burden with high level of dissent within occupied Russia), at best I could see a Fascist Russia similar to Wang Jingwei's Reorganized Republic of China which was a Pro-Japanese Puppet State during the Japanese invasion. Also for a Fascist Russia's Military, I could see it reduced to 300,000 - 600,000 men (instead of 100,000) much like the Collaborationist Chinese Army, since Russia is large and well there is a lot of ground to cover in Russia.

I mean they only want more land for farming space. So why not reduce lebensraum to Poland and Ukraine and not Russia, while a Puppet Fascist Russia can distribute crops to Germany?
Oh, definitely. I wasn't really meaning like a whole Fascist Russia being established, more like something along the lines of the Reorganized National Government of China or Vichy France. As in, there'd be a few fascist states that would be established in the West and East. Maybe the East helps the Japanese and the West helps the Germans and Italians? I was thinking that otherwise, the Germans could invade the Soviet Union but at least divide the territories between it and the fascist states (with pure Russians). I guess we'd just have to see what OP writes down next.
So for the Axis I was thinking:
-Nazi Germany (Joseph Stahl and Adolf Hitler)
-Fascist Italy (Benito Mussolini)
-Japan (Hirohito)
-Fascist Russian Republics
-Reorganised Republic of China (Wang Jingwei)
 
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"Communism is a reactionary force which is trying to eliminate fascism by means of violence. What will you do with the communists? Argue with them? Try to convince them? But this will have no effect upon them at all.... Fascists say to the working class: Answer violence with violence; do all you can to prevent them from crushing you, do not permit it to put manacles on your hands, on the hands with which you will overthrow their system... Fascists cannot ignore facts."
~Joseph Stahl on communism
 
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