The Right Man for the Job - A Manuel Komnenos restoration TL

Ah. What I know of their adventures (for want of a better word) OTL is pretty slim - they burst onto the scene, sack Jerusalem, and then (from a Western POV) fade out. Should be interesting to see how they handle this TTL - they were not among the more Persianized or even settled Turks.

Really? Interesting. The Khwarezmians seemed Persianized and settled enough to create an empire out of the remains of the Great Seljuks.
 
Really? Interesting. The Khwarezmians seemed Persianized and settled enough to create an empire out of the remains of the Great Seljuks.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/ala-al-din-abul-fath-mohammad-b
(An article on the penultimate shah)Thus ʿAlāʾ-al-dīn Moḥammad threw away by his provocation of the Mongols the chance of building up an empire of some permanence in the eastern Iranian lands and the steppe fringes, and unleashed over much of the Islamic world a series of human and social disasters. It may, however, be surmised that an empire built up by Moḥammad and based on military force alone would probably not have endured much longer than those of earlier Turkish and other military conquerors, for the home base of Ḵᵛārazm was too eccentrically situated from the heartlands of eastern Islam and too limited in resources of manpower and treasure to serve as the controlling center of a far-flung empire. Certainly, it is unlikely that the pro-Shiʿite policy which he adopted towards the end of his reign would have brought him any significant support from the Muslim population at large, whilst the savagery and excesses of the Khwarazmian forces—many of whom were unassimilated Turks from the Qïpčaq steppes and still virtually pagan—had speedily lost him support in both Transoxania and Iran."

My italics. So it seems that the leadership was more Persianizd than their soldiery.
 
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/ala-al-din-abul-fath-mohammad-b
(An article on the penultimate shah)Thus ʿAlāʾ-al-dīn Moḥammad threw away by his provocation of the Mongols the chance of building up an empire of some permanence in the eastern Iranian lands and the steppe fringes, and unleashed over much of the Islamic world a series of human and social disasters. It may, however, be surmised that an empire built up by Moḥammad and based on military force alone would probably not have endured much longer than those of earlier Turkish and other military conquerors, for the home base of Ḵᵛārazm was too eccentrically situated from the heartlands of eastern Islam and too limited in resources of manpower and treasure to serve as the controlling center of a far-flung empire. Certainly, it is unlikely that the pro-Shiʿite policy which he adopted towards the end of his reign would have brought him any significant support from the Muslim population at large, whilst the savagery and excesses of the Khwarazmian forces—many of whom were unassimilated Turks from the Qïpčaq steppes and still virtually pagan—had speedily lost him support in both Transoxania and Iran."

My italics. So it seems that the leadership was more Persianizd than their soldiery.

Hmm, so, given the area covered by the 'Mamluk Sultanate' (a placeholder until I can think of something better) and to use previous OTL examples, Barbaquan would be akin to Zengi while his possible son(s) would be more like Nur-ad Din (who grew up with an Arabic education).
 
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Hmm, so, given the area covered by the 'Mamluk Sultanate' (a placeholder until I can think of something better) and to use previous OTL examples, Barbaquan would be akin to Zengi while his possible son(s) would be more like to Nur-ad Din (who grew up with an).

That makes sense.
 
I'm really sorry, but next week I'll be doing a Diploma of Business Informatics at college until October at least and might not have time to update this TL.

I'm putting it up for adoption if anyone is still interested in it.
 
Bump. This TL is still up for adoption if anyone is interested. If anyony has any criticisms of the TL so far or has any ideas of how to improve it, please PM me or post here.
 
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This TL is still up for adoption. Although, if I ever do return to it, I am considering rewriting it. After reading a thread called 'As the Komnenoi World Turns' (and I highly recommend people look it up and read it) I realise I may have... misrepresented Manuel quite a bit, portraying him as a bit too squeaky clean.

I'm also thinking of another TL idea, based around a word prophecy like AIMA. Here's the basic outline:

Isaac II Angelos overthrows Andronikos I Komnenos, as per OTL, but the POD is that, somehow, the Bulgarian-Vlach revolt is put down, Isaac rules a bit better than OTL and is not overthrown by his brother. At the same time, he has at least one son by Margaret of Hungary and his eldest son (OTL Alexios IV) eventually becomes emperor without the Fourth Crusade. All the while, Andronikos's grandsons, Alexios & David Komnenos are in hiding, waiting for their opportunity to reclaim the throne.

The AIMA prophecy will come into effect once more with the Angeloi, but so will another word - Drasis, meaning 'strength, efficacy, action' (I can't remember which one).

What are your thoughts?
 
I might consider it. But I may ask someone else to adopt this instead.

But let's say I don't. First off, we need to look at why Issac II was such a terrible ruler IOTL, and see if we can fix those aspects. Or failing that, see how we can prevent the Bulgarian uprising (i.e kill the Asen brothers or not raise taxes over Bulgaria.) Also see how they can piss off the Venetians a little less...
 

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While I am saddened that you won't continue this, I look forward to the rewrite.

Now I would take this up, but I've too many other projects with the Byzantine empire and probably shouldn't commit myself to another one to avoid burnout.

I'd be very interested to see an alternate Angeloi timeline (although an alternate Andronikos timeline would be appreciated too)
 
I might consider it. But I may ask someone else to adopt this instead.

But let's say I don't. First off, we need to look at why Isaac II was such a terrible ruler IOTL, and see if we can fix those aspects. Or failing that, see how we can prevent the Bulgarian uprising (i.e kill the Asen brothers or not raise taxes over Bulgaria.) Also see how they can piss off the Venetians a little less...

I think the main reason why Bulgaria revolted was that later emperors didn't follow Basil II's policies of taxation towards them - accepting taxation in kind instead of coinage. I'm not sure how Isaac would get rid of the Asen brothers outside the battlefield (assassins?) - they seemed very loyal to each other, even though all three ended up murdered.

I read that the Bulgarians suffered a defeat in 1186 but Isaac returned to Constantinople instead of following up on it. That gave Peter and Ivan time to get reinforcements from the Cumans. Perhaps that could be the POD.

One idea I can think of is not trying to hinder Frederick Barbarossa's progress during the Third Crusade and campaigning in Anatolia at the same time.

While I am saddened that you won't continue this, I look forward to the rewrite.

We'll see. I finish my diploma around October/November, so I might start writing again around that time.

Now I would take this up, but I've too many other projects with the Byzantine empire and probably shouldn't commit myself to another one to avoid burnout.

That's perfectly alright, Sov. Though if you know anyone who would be interested...

I'd be very interested to see an alternate Angeloi timeline (although an alternate Andronikos timeline would be appreciated too)

Well, if I do that TL, it might only be Angeloi for a certain amount of time...

I'm not even sure if the word I'd use for that TL was proper - Drasis.
 
Sweet.

I make no promises, but I'll see what I can do.

Interesting.
I'll see what I can do to help. If this is a collaboration, this might just work...

If I end up helping you, I don't think we'll need to speak privately of our plans if this is a planning operation - we'll get public help that way. We could open up a thread just for that, in fact. And we'll either leave off where BL ended, or we can consider that Angeloi TL plan...
 
So I just finished talking to Sov, and says he's not thinking of taking this up now, as he is "too busy with real life stuff." He may do a TLIAD of the Angeloi idea at the most.

So basically the thread's still up for adoption.
 
Alright, I've decided to create a new thread - The Right Man for the Job V2.0! There are a few things I've written in this current TL that I either got wrong or that I'm not altogether proud of. The biggest one writing Manuel Komnenos as a complete saint, when in fact he was anything but.

The first post will be up soon. Anyone who can spot any differences between the old and the new gets an internet cookie.
 
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