The Revenge of the Crown : An Alternate 1812 and Beyond.

[Lusitania]

Now I would go on a limb and speculate that British troops keep advancing towards New York City cutting US in half. Loyalist in the center keep joining. New England separates a separate country where as the rest of US south of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York (which rejoin BNA) form a revised USA with state rights being forefront (more articles than Constitution). BNA also gets all lands north of Ohio river and northern main.

nos this is my take on it and not in anyway what going to really happen.

 

[Ficboy]

Now I would go on a limb and speculate that British troops keep advancing towards New York City cutting US in half. Loyalist in the center keep joining. New England separates a separate country where as the rest of US south of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York (which rejoin BNA) form a revised USA with state rights being forefront (more articles than Constitution). BNA also gets all lands north of Ohio river and northern main.

nos this is my take on it and not in anyway what going to really happen.

I think a more realistic balkanization of the United States would be New England, New York, Pennsylvania (with Delaware), Maryland, Virginia, the South (with or without Virginia) and the Indian Confederacy.

 

[Lusitania]

I think a more realistic balkanization of the United States would be New England, New York, Pennsylvania (with Delaware), Maryland, Virginia, the South (with or without Virginia) and the Indian Confederacy.

But from what we been led to believe there is a seperate New England. The British are on a tear in New York and southern states are so far not impacted by the war. Plus I I don’t think the British hive everything north of Ohio to natives. But give a good potion. The only thing that I had missed is a neutral New Orleans. That way no one can stop the movement of goods along Mississippi

 

[Lusitania]

Chapter 7: Raise the Union Jack!

***

“Five days after the First Battle of Lake Onondaga, Brock resumed his fight into New York. On May 3rd, he would attack once again. This time he had a trick up his sleeves. He placed his troops in the same manner that he had during the First Battle of Onondaga.

Pike who had no time to be reinforced, only had the 5th New York Militia, 18th New York Militia, 15th US Infantry, 16th US Infantry, 21st US Infantry and the 3rd US Artillery with him. He kept his troops in a wide line defending the lake and the small settlement all the way from Seneca Knolls in the North to Onondaga Hill in the south. The 18th New York Militia and the 5th New York Militia was kept at Onondaga Hill, and the 15th US Infantry was kept in the north at Seneca Knolls.

Brock on the other had the exact same formation as the First Battle of Lake Onondaga. At Jack’s Reef, he placed the 49th Regiment of the Foot, and at Marcellus Falls, he placed the 104th Regiment of the Foot. At Elbridge, the 8th Regiment of the Foot and the Glengarry Light Infantry was kept. The 7th Royal Artillery was dispersed along the entire line.

View attachment 586066
a typical member of the glengarry light infantry. ​

The battle began in the morning at 5 a.m., when Brock’s guns starting to shell Onondaga Hill and the Militia based there. The 104th Regiment of the Foot moved to the hill from Marcellus’s Falls and started to assault the hill trying to attack.

The 104th Regiment attacked and assaulted the hill with all the strength that was characteristic of a regular regiment. The Militiamen who had gotten the better of the 104th Regiment five days before had only done so because they had caught the British by surprise, and the 104th Regiment was hungry for revenge. They attacked with ferocity and the militiamen of the New York Militias, which were already haphazard in their structure, equipment and capability started to become pushed back by the end of the hour. The continued artillery bombardment meant that the Hill was starting to become put under heavy pressure for the militiamen as well.

By 6:30, the position on Onondaga Hill for the militiamen from the two regiments became increasingly impossible to maintain in front of the assault that the 104th Regiment and the royal artillery and they abandoned it and in a somewhat haphazard, but much more organized than normal manner retreated to Jamesville. Pike ordered the 18th and the 5th New York Militia in Jamesville after they had retreated to go south and towards Otisco Lake. From there, Pike ordered the Militiamen to strike at the flanks of the 104th Regiment, where he believed could be pushed back again.

In the North, the 21st US Infantry was fighting a gruesome battle in the woods with the 8th Regiment of the Foot. The 8th Regiment of the Foot was utilizing all of the Iroquois knowledge of these woods to their utmost advantage. US positions were becoming increasingly volatile and unsustainable when the 21st US Infantry withdrew from Fair Mount to Solvay. However this was the move that Brock had been waiting for. The 8th Regiment and the 49th Regiment alongside the Glengarry Light Infantry started to push at the 21st, 16th and 15th US Infantry almost immediately after the 21st US Infantry withdrew to Solvay, and by 8, the 8th Regiment had broken the lines, and reached Lake Onondaga. Pike was now cut off from the southern sector of Upper New York.

He knew then that his only chance was the militiamen he had sent to Jamesville to attack at the flanks and create a breakout opportunity. However Brock pulled out his trump card. Major General Sheaffe had been moving forward at a sedate pace, however the day before the battle he had reached Seneca Falls, and when his troops saw the Militiamen move towards Otisco Valley, he attacked immediately and the Militiamen were put under heavy fire from the 2500 troops under the command of Sheaffe. And the militiamen were battered, and their position grew extremely more untenable as the 104th Regiment swung south after the 8th reached Lake Onondaga and attacked the militiamen from the rear. Faced with a chance of being encircled by Sheaffe and the 104th Regiment, the Militiamen slinked off from the battle moving south through the wilderness.

In the North Pike started to come under heavy pressure, and by midday, the 21st US Infantry had been extremely battered and unable to fight even properly. The men were tired, and the entire regiment was deficient of ammunition to fight with. Only the 16th US Infantry had proper ammunition to fight with, and by that point Pike knew that no breakout attempt would be possible. Further bad news came when a messenger he had sent north returned bringing news that Colonel MacDonnell had broken through the skirmishes of the militiamen and had started to advance down south as well, which was basically the death knell for any breakout attempt. With MacDonnell moving south, Pike’s men were well and truly encircled, and with no hope of moving out.

At 1, Pike surrendered to Brock, and Lake Onondaga along with Lake Oneida fell to the British forces under Brock, Sheaffe and MacDonnell. The Second Battle of Lake Onondaga came to an end with a crushing victory for the British troops. The British faced 41 killed in battle, 89 wounded, and around 4 missing in action. The Americans faced 69 killed in battle, 127 wounded, and 300 captured. Pike himself was captured in the battle, from where he would be transferred to York, where he would stay under house arrest under supervision of the British authorities and house arrest. Brock had reclaimed a slight shame of having lost the First Battle of Lake Onondaga.” Isaac Brock At War.

“In New York, the atmosphere was quickly starting to mirror that of its New English cousins. The initial enthusiasm for war with Britain was starting to ebb away, and fear of British reprisals against the ‘upstart colonials’ started to seep inside the population. After the American Revolutionary War, New York was one of the few places were the Loyalists hadn’t left in all entirety. Around half of the loyalists had left for Canada, and around a quarter to Britain itself. However the remaining quarter had remained in America, not wanting to leave their own lands, despite being against the American government. These loyalists tended not to vote or take part in governmental affairs, however even in their early to late fifties, these men started to welcome the prospect of returning to British authority. Few loyalists who were still in fighting condition defected to the British lines, and many children and descendants of loyalists defected to the British side as well. All in all, over the months of April and May, around 600 to 800 Americans, almost all of whom had some ties to loyalists defected to Brock and Sheaffe. Sheaffe, ever the cold man, and one for ironies, used these defectors to reform the King’s Royal Regiment of New York. They were equipped and had begun training by the end of the month.

View attachment 586067
Symbol of the King's Royal Regiment of New York. ​

Meanwhile in the city of New York itself, Daniel D. Tompkins, the Governor of New York was having a hard time controlling the explosive defeatism. He was all in all a competent Governor, which was quickly becoming a rarity in America during the War of 1812, and he had managed to somewhat sustain the New York Economy, and had managed to administer the Militia system effectively. However the total destruction and capture of around 4 militia regiments whilst fighting against Brock also let out a feeling of fear. Many men refused to volunteer for the militia because of fear and becoming afraid of fighting ‘New York Killer Brock’ as the press called him during those days. The conscription system put in place by Tompkins managed to alleviate some of the manpower shortage, however it wasn’t enough. By the end of May, the refusal of many to volunteer, and the blockade of New York by the Royal Navy started to show. A small British raid on New York took place on the 19th of May as well, which saw some armories and ammunition depots burnt to the ground before retreating. By that point Tompkins wrote a pessimistic letter to James Monroe.

View attachment 586068
Daniel D. Tompkins. ​

“This War is driving former loyalists and pessimistic loyalists right into the arms of the British. This war needs to stop. Our economy is plunging, our stock and exchange markets are being floated only by hauling gold across the Appalachian mountains, and the men refuse to fight due to an irrational fear of the British commander. We must stop now, or this war will be the end of the United States of America.”

Unfortunately for him, his words would be prophetic.” The Short Life of the Republic 1783-1827, Osprey Publishing, 1998.

“On May 17th, the delegates of the Boston Conference reached Washington, just as news of the Second Battle of the Lake Onondaga became known to the Presidential Palace. The mood was somber once again, and the delegates pushed their advantage and pushed the proposal in front of President Madison.

President Madison wasn’t an unreasonable man, however he was just that, a man. And he was prone to mistakes. Historians believe that had Madison accepted the Boston Conference and it’s demands, then the tragedy that struck his nation wouldn’t have happened, however one can only speculate. Madison was open to the 1 term limit, and the different states per president demand, and even ticked on them during the meeting between him and the delegates. He was also hesitant to call of the Enemy Act of 1812, however was willing to let it go and ticked on it as well. He also accepted the demand for any trade embargo not going over 45 days. However he could not and would not accept a two third congressional majority to declare an offensive war, and remove the three-fifths representative advantage of the south. The first, was because it would mean that Madison would have to accept that he had made a major error in declaring an offensive war, and put his decision making into question. The second, was because his major backers were the Southerners, and doing so would make him lose his support base, and much of his backers as well. Out of the entire demands that were made by the Federalists of New England, the two most crucial demands were not met by Madison. The delegates left Washington DC with anger burning through their veins. One of the delegates reputedly threw his hat onto the floor and stated that “Mr. President. This is the end of negotiations then.”

And as such, a new nation dawned.” A Political History of the Commonwealth of New England, University of Boston, 1897.

“In the West, the Second Siege of Fort Meigs ended on May 20th after a good month of the siege. General Henry Dearborn surrendered the fort after having found his position untenable and impossible to maintain as McKay and Tecumseh attacked from both sides of the River Maumee.

With the end of the threat that was posed by Fort Meigs, Tecumseh and McKay turned towards the south. They needed to be able to take Fort Wayne next. Taking Fort Wayne would end the threat to the West for the British during the entirety of the War. The Fort was also lightly defended, which was definitely ad advantage that Tecumseh and McKay was willing to exploit. With reinforcements from Upper and Lower Canada, amounting to around 500 regulars and 1500 Militiamen arriving, the invasion of the Indiana Territory began as McKay and Tecumseh, with their 4200 men starting to march towards Fort Wayne. By the 29th of May Fort Wayne came under siege as the Siege of Fort Wayne began.” The Life of Tecumseh, Penguin Publishing, 1999.

View attachment 586069
Fort Wayne. ​

“With the victories that Brock had brought onto the table, Prevost needed to make sure that he be seen doing something about the current situation as well. And he hadn’t been sitting idly however. For the past winter, he had managed to recruit two regiments worth of Quebecois men, around 2000 men, and throughout the winter they were trained to become proficient in battle, which Prevost later called a pseudo-regular training program. It had good results, and the 2000 Quebecois men were divided into the 107th (Quebec) Regiment of the Foot and the 110th (Montreal) Regiment of the Foot at end of the winter. Along with the other 800 Regulars that Prevost had, along with 3000 Militiamen, The Commander in Chief of British North America had assembled a formidable force indeed.

In May 26th, 1813, Prevost struck and he struck hard. The cautious and severely paranoid general was in good time able to go on the offensive as well, when it was needed. The British held naval superiority in Lake Champlain and utilizing that, few British schooners started the Battle of Plattsburg when they opened fire at the fortifications at Plattsburg. The Americans believed that the attack would be coming from the sea as a marine invasion, and the guns of the fortifications turned towards the lake, where seeing the guns, the British schooners immediately retreated back into Canadian waters.

However this distracted cost the Americans costly amount of time, as Major General Benjamin Mooers had posted his militiamen and the riflemen facing the lake, however the 107th Regiment of the Foot attacked from the north. The 110 riflemen under Major Daniel Appling tried to resist the attack from the 107th Regiment of the Foot, however when Prevost brought out the eight 6 pounder guns, Appling thought it best to retreat back into Plattsburg, and he abandoned the positions next to Point Au Roche, and retreated back to Cumberland Head, where the shore batteries would be able to give him an advantage. The Novo Scotian Fencibles then attacked on orders from Prevost. They entered Alburg and then and moved south intending to capture Grand Isle if they could, however their major objective was to keep the American troops there tied down. The Americans faced even more challenges however. The deep divides between New England and the rest of the Union had seeped inside the normal fighting troops, and during this time, most of the men identified with their state rather than the country itself in America. Many Vermont Militia did not even fight and instead sat in reserve whilst the Novo Scotians battered the New York Militia fighting in Grand Isle.

The American rearguards then retired across the Saranac, tearing up planks from the bridges, however in doing so they made their own opportunity of attacking and counterattacking slim. The 110th Regiment was also made up of French Canadians who knew the area well, as some were traders and had traded with the Americans during the time of peace. They attacked from Harrietstown, right at the flanks of the American Rearguard as they tried to cross the Sentinel Range Wilderness. The 110th Regiment and the American rearguard consisting of the 3rd US Rifle Regiment fought all across the Saranac Lake area, however the detachments of the rifle regiment were already inside the Sentinel Range, and without proper support and being outnumbered heavily the 3rd US Rifle Regiment fell quickly and by the evening of the May 26th, the Sentinel Range had fallen to the British 110th Regiment as well with the French Canadians singing Vive La Canadienne. In the north, the 107th Regiment began hammering the Riflemen under Tippling, however by dusk, the battle withdrew to a halt as the men started to rest for the next day.

On the 27th, the Battle of Plattsburg renewed as the Novo Scotians moved south and started to attack the New York Militia again. By that point, overnight, the Americans had resupplied Grand Isle, and the Novo Scotians were unfortunately pushed out from Grand Isle. Nonetheless, the New York Militiamen and the Americans were unable to dislodge the Novo Scotians in North Hero as the Novo Scotians broke the bridge connecting the two islands together, and the Americans did not hold naval advantage in the lake. What was worse for the Americans however was that the Novo Scotians had two 12 pounder guns, and these were used with impunity by the Novo Scotians to bombard Grand Isle from the distance, keeping the New York Militiamen on their toes, and unable to reinforce Plattsburgh properly.

However there would be no need. The city of Plattsburgh fell quickly however. The bombardment of the city hit an ammunition stores next to one of the fortresses in the city, and the store blew up in a cascade of fire and death. Now, having his position totally exposed to Prevost’s men, the American troops retreated south, and Plattsburgh fell to Prevost as the 107th Regiment entered the town victorious, as they raised the Union Jack and the British Quebecois flag. Ironically, it was the French Canadians who sang the Elevez L’Union Jack as the Union Jack was raised over the town. And as the month of May ended, the United States of America was getting closer and closer to becoming fully embroiled in a crisis.” British North America in 1812, University of Avalon, 1896.

Sorry for not shortening the reference but New York State capital was Albany. So I think the governor be in Albany not New York City. Unless the government had fled there due to fighting in north.

 

[Sarthak]

Sorry for not shortening the reference but New York State capital was Albany. So I think the governor be in Albany not New York City. Unless the government had fled there due to fighting in north.

Ah right I had forgotten about that, thanks!

 

[Ficboy]

Ah right I had forgotten about that, thanks!

Since the United States was badly beaten in TTL's War of 1812 and with New England leaving to become its own nation I doubt it will last long since you mentioned a fictional book that had its end in 1824. When and if it does balkanize it would create the nations of New York (which includes the state itself and New Jersey), Pennsylvania (with an absorbed Delaware), Maryland, Virginia, the South (covering North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Georgia, Louisiana and West Florida which may or may not include Virginia itself) and the Indian Confederacy.

 

[p0lish_runn3r]

Since the United States was badly beaten in TTL's War of 1812 and with New England leaving to become its own nation I doubt it will last long since you mentioned a fictional book that had its end in 1824. When and if it does balkanize it would create the nations of New York (which includes the state itself and New Jersey), Pennsylvania (with an absorbed Delaware), Maryland, Virginia, the South (covering North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Georgia, Louisiana and West Florida which may or may not include Virginia itself) and the Indian Confederacy.

idk if the entire nation should balkanize but I would expect that the terms are very harsh

 

[Sarthak]

Since the United States was badly beaten in TTL's War of 1812 and with New England leaving to become its own nation I doubt it will last long since you mentioned a fictional book that had its end in 1824. When and if it does balkanize it would create the nations of New York (which includes the state itself and New Jersey), Pennsylvania (with an absorbed Delaware), Maryland, Virginia, the South (covering North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Georgia, Louisiana and West Florida which may or may not include Virginia itself) and the Indian Confederacy.

No republic does not mean no US.

 

[Ficboy]

No republic does not mean no US.

I don't know given that the United States in Revenge of the Crown won't be a republic by 1827 according to one fictional history book it would be more likely for it to collapse into new nations for various reasons. Plus the US is a republic and I can't even imagine the country existing without that model of government.

 

[Waltzing Brunhilda]

I don't know given that the United States in Revenge of the Crown won't be a republic by 1827 according to one fictional history book it could collapse into new nations for various reasons. Plus the US is a republic.

Dude it is his TL let him write his way without pressing for every detail let the story flow.

 

[Ficboy]

Dude it is his TL let him write his way without pressing for every detail let the story flow.

I know. It's just my two cents regarding what would have happened.

 

[Kienle]

Hmm very interesting course of events, I might use TTL for some ideas for my TL when it reaches 1810s.

 

[carbon1923]

If America dissolves there will still be the US. More specifically, the UMS. United Mexican States.

 

[Sarthak]

If America dissolves there will still be the US. More specifically, the UMS. United Mexican States.

Mexico is going to be vastly different ITTL. No United Mexican States unfortunately.

 

[Analytical Engine]

Mexico is going to be vastly different ITTL. No United Mexican States unfortunately.

Still monarchist Mexico? Or maybe a unitary but still republican Mexico?

 

[Sarthak]

Still monarchist Mexico? Or maybe a unitary but still republican Mexico?

We'll see

 

[Thomas_Wellesley]

We'll see

If I had to guess - America is going to lose this war - and possibly half of it's territory to Britain/New England/whatever else happens. Some politicians may decide that if America has lost it's Northern territories, then it's time to expand south... into Mexico.

Just a theory, of course.

(But if this does end up happening, I'm claiming partial credit )

 

[Sarthak]

If I had to guess - America is going to lose this war - and possibly half of it's territory to Britain/New England/whatever else happens. Some politicians may decide that if America has lost it's Northern territories, then it's time to expand south... into Mexico.

Just a theory, of course.

(But if this does end up happening, I'm claiming partial credit )

Hey, we'll see

 

[Not Henry G.]

As long as it doesn't end with the rump US taking over all of Mexico I'll be happy. It is the likely scenario, but also pretty boring imo. But it's your TL, and I'll follow what you decide

 

[Lusitania]

As long as it doesn't end with the rump US taking over all of Mexico I'll be happy. It is the likely scenario, but also pretty boring imo. But it's your TL, and I'll follow what you decide

The stability of Mexico and its ability to hold northern territories is at issue. Even without a formal US the territories annexed by US iotl will be very hard for Mexico to maintain.

although in 1812 Mexico does not exist and still new Spain therefore we still have over 25 years for things to happen. Which a lot can