The Revenge of the Crown : An Alternate 1812 and Beyond.
- Thread starter Sarthak
- Start date
Very good, I've enjoyed the treachery in the former USA.
I'm looking forward to Canadian Lincoln.
Thank you for the map. And good luck with school.
For some more America predictions:
The USA even with Lee in power will not quite get over expansionism, and after Lee's death will end up a secondary palyer in the scramble for Africa. Also the Colonization movement will see a lot more 'success' in resettling African-Americans in Africa as part of Alt America's imperialism.
The 2nd American Revolution's wrap up will involve an international conference of various disputes in North America. It will include the partition of the Northwest between America, Mexico and the British Empire. America as a consolation for losses elsewhere gets OTL Wyoming and Eastern Montana(minus the Northern parts already under Britain. The Remainder is divided roughly along with Washington-Oregon divide of OTL. While the deal is praised in its time for settling the last major land dispute on the continent peacefully, Mishigama and later commentators note its done with little if any thought for the Native peoples who live in the disputed area. The fate of these peoples will vary quite a bit depending on which side of these fairly arbitrary lines they end up on.
For the Americans this Prairie frontier becomes a dumping ground for military officers that run afoul of the new order for years to come.
One of the new states will be named for Lee.
For some more America predictions:
The USA even with Lee in power will not quite get over expansionism, and after Lee's death will end up a secondary palyer in the scramble for Africa. Also the Colonization movement will see a lot more 'success' in resettling African-Americans in Africa as part of Alt America's imperialism.
The 2nd American Revolution's wrap up will involve an international conference of various disputes in North America. It will include the partition of the Northwest between America, Mexico and the British Empire. America as a consolation for losses elsewhere gets OTL Wyoming and Eastern Montana(minus the Northern parts already under Britain. The Remainder is divided roughly along with Washington-Oregon divide of OTL. While the deal is praised in its time for settling the last major land dispute on the continent peacefully, Mishigama and later commentators note its done with little if any thought for the Native peoples who live in the disputed area. The fate of these peoples will vary quite a bit depending on which side of these fairly arbitrary lines they end up on.
For the Americans this Prairie frontier becomes a dumping ground for military officers that run afoul of the new order for years to come.
One of the new states will be named for Lee.
Pretty sure a big part of it just what they actually claim instead of what they have settled and really control I mean isn’t that pretty much like the majority of the colonial state ?
Well I understand at the time of the Revolt Saint Louis and Arkansas were Francophone majority, so they basically took and held the Mississippi line; and then invaded the Deep South. So at the peace treaty they claimed the land of the Purchase west of their line of control, and the USA had to give in with France backing New Olreans.
As for Westward expansion we have pretty few details on that. In addition to domestic increase they have been getting immigrants from France and other French speaking areas. Though unlike Mexico, and BNA I think, immigration generally requires fluency in French; so fewer immigrants than those. The Russians seem to be an exception to the rule. So I gather controlling their westward expansion is dependent on their alliance with several powerful Comanche groups, and possibly other nations as well.
My guess is the Louisianians are dividing and conquering, splitting the lands with their local allies like the Comanche.
I'm not sure if this is of any use to anyone, but maps of TTL are:
Maps of North America on pages 13, 47, 52.
Map of Mishigama on page 28
Wikiboxes showing TTL's present-day nations on pages 58 (New England), 60 (Louisiana), 67 (Sweden-Norway)
Page 70 has an OTL Wikipedia box portraying TTL Papal States (correct me if I'm wrong)
Page 71 has a map of the partition of Belgium
Northstar
With votes and turnouts calculated that is roughly 11million people who can vote. Assuming that they have typical 21st century laws (All over 18 can vote) then they are probably a nation of 12-14million?
1. Stronger than OTL by a considerable margin, not neccesarily a good thing because even their OTL strength encouraged complacency. Could see (in the very far future) an Imperial Federation, depending on what occurs. Lack of a block to the American markets (which was USA in OTL) means that they will likely make even more money than OTL during their period of industrial dominance (1815-1890s). This will probably result in the "Free trade" school of thought decisively beating the "Tariffs/Made in the Empire" school of thought - which could bite them in the ass once they lose industrial dominance (which will occur, even if industrialising the dominions could delay it till around the 1930s)
The lack of a strong USA will mean more opportunities for British finance etc. Their TTL control over the world financial market will likely be even more hegemonic than OTL, as will their shipbuilding/merchant fleet.
Basically, the peak will be even higher - and it is possible that the fall from Greatest power will never happen if they make an Imperial federation. The extra money and influence could push them into a level of power which the USA enjoyed OTL post-USSR - essentially as close to a hyperpower/the sole superpower as you can get pre-globalisation.
2. Mexico will be more stable than OTL, once they realise how good California is they will settle it on mass - which could help them finally integrate their northern territories properly.
They won't demonstrate into a TTL version of the USA in power. They lack the resources, population, geography and their society goes against it (no where near as pro-immigration, nobility, heavy church control etc)
3. Spain will (probably) lose them. As I doubt the European Spanish are willing to turn over the driving power to the American Spanish.
4. Will likely be as underdeveloped as OTL Amazon area was historically - until the rubber boom kicks in
5. Will likely be a more conservative state than OTL - but will probably still boom like OTL Argentina did (and likely collapse in fortunes for the same reasons and in the same way)
I'm kinda hoping that America will sell those lands west of the Mississippi, too sparsely populated, and if America is unlucky enough, could be easily cut off. I do not hedge my chances on that region being all too defensible. So my prediction will be that in the future...as to who would buy the land for a cash-strapped America, I dunno...I want Louisiana to get it just because...but given that Louisiana's boundaries aren't going to change too much from now, I'd say the Canadian Confederation would likely be the better bet.
As for the others:
- The Sun Never Sets on the British Empire: Most definitely the strongest power on the block, and even stronger now since it won't be competing with America for commercial interests in the Western Hemisphere down the road. Imperial Federation could be a possibility and if it does achieve it, would give Britain uncontested Superpower status, but given you said that this is a world where no such power exists, I see Dominionization being the norm as per OTL, hopefully more dominions down the road perhaps.
- The Sun is Rising on The Mexican Empire: Will most definitely rise to become the Great Power of North America under the Bonapartes. As @EvilJam said, it will not be a U.S. analogue by virtue of its culture being developed ITTL runs antithetical to the U.S. IOTL. But I know they will make something work that will earn them the GP slot. The California Gold Rush would be an important start, probably going as far as to integrate and reorganize the Territories of California and New Mexico.
Maybe I would like to see indigenous Mexican aircraft once we get there...
- The Sun is on Permanent Afternoon Mode in the Spanish Empire: Vice City Edition: I've already said my piece with regards to what will happen to the Spanish colonies, and I still stand on my statement for Florida (America is just going to start doing war crimes on the Seminoles and I don't know if Spain has the resources to hold the Americans in Florida. But this not just about Florida however.
Peru, the Spanish West Indies, and the Philippines will remain with Spain, while New Granada and the above mentioned Florida will not, the former to independence, the latter completely to America. As to what will become of those colonies however, I can see the West Indies essentially being tied more to the metropole, not unlike French West Indies IOTL. Peru and the Philippines are much further away and I feel would likely either gain independence or some form of Dominion status, not unlike Canada. Which means...I hope you have Spanish Peru and Spanish Philippine flags on standby!
- Rio Amazonas Blues: This one is...difficult to pin down. Given that last we heard, Maria (the eldest daughter of Pedro I of Brazil) has become the heir to Joao VI as King of Portugal and Amazonas. But other than that, I got squat.
- The Sun doesn't rise until May in the Argentine Kingdom: Argentina could still turn out to be a fairly formidable power in South America, but man I do not know how many feathers will be rustled by Carlos I or any of his children once he kicks the bucket. If I were to make a ballpark estimate, Argentina may end up becoming the strongest power in South America, but, like Brazil IOTL will not be a great power.
the voting franchise is a little different, but you aren't off the mark totally.
There will be no Imperial Federation ittl, but yes you are correct, British decline has been curtailed by a few decades ittl, and is a whole lot stronger.
True enough.
Plausible predictions.
there will be more dominions than otl, they will be interesting for sure!
By sheer size Mexico will become a great power ittl, that is certain.
oh that would be interesting!
We'll see about Florida. It is going to be an interesting region in the future.
Phillippines is a stretch. They have a century + history of resisting the Spanish rule with them And Peru would be dangerously isolated if Granada goes independent. Though you are correct if the colonies remain a part of Spain, they will probably evolve into something akin to the french today.
I probably should catch up on the Portuguese in the next chapter huh......
Carlist Argentina does have an interesting future ahead of itself.
It seem like Mishigama would get a decent number of non native population and survive to present day population is around 5 million ? Curious to see the effect of a native state on modern people thinking and culture . Also it still have a flag with the Union Jack on it ( I was hoping they would throw it away at some point) and they seem to border an entity who are Canada and "America"