Who should become the first president of new england?


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Yeah but its been largely targeted on Catholic area's like Italy and Ireland. The tidel wave of WASP's probably isn't in their interests.

Even if that has been their targeting strategy, nothing has been said of restricting immigrants to Mexico. And the Gold Rush will have people wanting to come even if the government isn't trying to encourage them. So would a rush of immigrants cause the Mexican government to institute and enforce immigration restrictions is the question.

Keep in mind the USA is not the same threat as OTL, indeed the biggest territory dispute I think Mexico has right now is the exact division of the Northwest with Britain.
 
Speaking of Mexico and Britain, what's going on with the Miskito?
Miskito is like most Caribbean colonies. It exists but on the backburner for Britain. Since Mexico holds tenuous control of its territories outside the center, they don't really say much about the territory at all, hoping to keep their better relations with Britain.
 
Miskito is like most Caribbean colonies. It exists but on the backburner for Britain. Since Mexico holds tenuous control of its territories outside the center, they don't really say much about the territory at all, hoping to keep their better relations with Britain.

Do we know what the protocol at the time would be regarding border commissions? Is it likely that Mexico and Britain would look to sort both their borders in Central America and northwest North America at the same time? Or would it require two separate commissions?

Northstar
 
Though Napoleon II might not accept such a proposal. Technically Napoleon II is the senior member of the House of Bonaparte as he's the only son of Napoleon, and the current claimant to the Imperial Throne.

Possibly but I would think in immigrating to Mexico he had more or less turned his back on European ambitions. This marriage in particular he likely knew would not help his case.

Besides I am thinking Bonapartism is not doing very well in France ITTL. The Bourbons have been doing quite well for themselves, with the last two kings living out their lives on the throne and France steadily growing in power, enfranchisement and prosperity. Additionally the Bourbon monarchy has done well setting itself up as protectors of the French people abroad, supporting Louisiana and bringing the French speaker of the former Belgium into the fold. By contrast the Bonapartes are becoming a foreign dynasty based overseas with interests that while not hostile to France are not exactly in step either.

Plus I could see diehard Bonapartists immigrating to Mexico further weakening that faction in France.
 
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Chapter 35: The Great Italian Schism.
Chapter 35: The Great Italian Schism.

***

“The Spaniards are coming! By god, the Spaniards are coming! It’s Zumalacarregui!” – An unknown Neapolitan soldier during the Neapolitan Campaign.

“Tomas Zumalacarregui was perhaps the greatest military mind that Spain ever had born within its own borders. It is sad because of this that only Spaniards, Charcans and Italians know of his name with some familiarity. This book wishes to shed light on his achievements. He was a conservative, and by all rights it was his policies during his premiership as Prime Minister of Spain that led to the eventual separation of the colonies and Spain itself, however his military acumen and genius cannot be denied. After taking Naples after a bloody two month long siege during the Siege of Napoli in mid to late 1833, the man then settled down to reorganize his troops. He knew that the Neapolitans had fled to Salerno and knew that he had more than enough room to maneuver. As such he didn’t show much haste in his works. Instead he chose to winter the winter of 1833 and 1834 within the walls of the city of Naples itself. King Ferdinand II of the Two Sicilies lambasted this approach, wishing to regain his Neapolitan lands immediately, however De Saavedra intervened on behalf of his general and told the king to be patient. During the winter, the Spanish navy resupplied the city of Naples, and the Spanish Army stuck within its walls with extra men, reinforcements, ammunition, guns, artillery, and supplies in general, greatly bolstering the strength of the army. Zamalacarregui also enforced strict discipline on his soldiers. He was respectful of the local Neapolitan population and their political leaders, and forced his soldiers to act accordingly. He combined this hearts and mind strategy with brutal efficiency in the battlefield. A combination that many found hard to counter, especially against him personally.

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General Tomas Zumalacarregui.

In March, 1834 he led his army outside of Naples at last, and decided to move on with his campaign. Zamalacarregui was about to shock the world. Called the ‘Wellington of Spain’ the man would not lose a single battle throughout his military career, and his campaigns in southern Italy prove this to an astonishing degree. He first marched to the south, towards Salerno, passing the ancient city of Pompei on the way towards it, and then laid siege to the city. With the Spanish Navy arriving to provide shore bombardment and the city walls being so old and decrepit, and ill-maintained as well, the city gave up after a three week long siege. Instead of following the advice of his younger subordinates, who advised him to march to the south, Zamalcarregui decided he would march through the Central Italian Mountains and attack the Neapolitan Adriatic Coast, in order to give his campaign more strategic depth, in general.

On April 13th, 1834 he and his 20,000 strong army set off from Salerno and started to march through the mountain and mountain passes towards the Neapolitan Adriatic coast. He passed through the hills and mountains, often having to fight Neapolitan guerillas in the way. In general the population of almost every place in the world has a soft spot for guerillas, and hope that guerillas win their fight. However Zamalacarregui had been a guerilla during the Peninsular War when Napoleon invaded Spain, and he knew all of the guerilla tactics. That meant that he also knew their weak spots and how to outmatch them. He outflanked the guerillas, and then used heavy marching bands to make any attempt at ambush ill-thought out and used a small scorched earth policy to reach Foggia. The Battle of Foggia then commenced where Zamalacarregui defeated the numerically stronger Neapolitan army of around 32,000 men. With the army in tatters, he entered Foggia victories in May 29th. With their only standing army in tatters after the Battle of Foggia, the Neapolitans switched strategy and instead conducted their own scorched earth policy against the Spanish.

So when Zamalacarregui reached Andria, his army had been reduced to 12,000 and he did not have more than a month’s worth of supplies. This was worrying for the general and his prospects in fighting out the war, however the man decided to act fast and with daring before the Neapolitans could move their own supplies. He dispersed his units all around Andria and using his artillery corps, laid siege on the city to keep them in pace. His dispersed units then occupied all of the roads out of the city and then surrounded the city, forcing the Neapolitans to keep the city’s supplies within the city itself. A Spanish raid into the city broke the defenses of the city on June 16th, and the Spanish took the city, and with it the supplies as well, greatly bolstering their own overall supply line. With his troops well supplied with the capture of Neapolitan supplies, Zamalacarregui then acted fast and stormed the city of Bari. Here, the Neapolitans tried to put up a strong fight, however they were incoherent and poorly led, and their equipment’s qualities were in doubt. Their ammunition situation was horrible with one lieutenant writing in his diary that the Neapolitans did not have more than 3 bullet cartridges per soldier. The city predictably fell to the invading Spaniards. By this point however the Spanish army was exhausted, and near breaking point. Zamalacarregui correctly assessed that his army could not fight another engagement and come out victorious. So he instead stationed his troops within Bari, and contacted the Spanish and Sicilian navy. The Spanish and Sicilian Navy then started to supply Bari with reinforcements and supplies by passing through the Straits of Otranto into the Adriatic Sea. With his men regaining their energy, and their supply situation in a much better position than before, Zamalacarregui decided to move in July 18th, 1834 and marched south to Matera, where the Neapolitans stood their ground to fight him.

The Battle of Matera is described as Zamalacarregui’s hardest battle. The Neapolitans fought bravely in the battle, staying their ground and not crumbling. For five days straight Zamalacarregui attacked without mercy, and the Neapolitans pushed the Spaniards out with their own matching ferocity. Finally on the sixth day of the battle, the Spanish cavalry managed to outflank the Neapolitans, and they crumbled. This lay the road to Taranto open. With the Neapolitan collapse at Matera, the city of Taranto simply opened their city walls to Zamalacarregui, earning the man a quick victory. He then split his army and sent a detachment of 9,000 men under his subordinate, General Javier Francesco Caro to head south and lay siege to the strategic stronghold of Lecce. He himself led the rest of the army to Potenza. The Siege of Potenza is often called the last stand of the Neapolitans and raged on for three long months. Finally after a Spanish bombardment hit their gunpowder stores and their redoubts went up in flames, the city surrendered on 3rd November, and Zamalacarregui entered the city.

At the same time, the Sicilians invaded the southern boot of Italy, and landed near Cosenza at three critical point. The northern two landings converged on the city of Cosenza and laid siege to the city, and the last landing force of around 8,000 Sicilians marched around the city towards Catanzaro. The city fell after it was taken by surprise, and the Sicilians marched towards Crotone. Crotone however did not submit easily and fought on throughout the harsh winter. The Sicilians were now laying siege to two major cities. The Sicilians were well-armed, however they did not have the manpower to conduct costly sieges, and the Sicilians sent word to Zamalcarregui asking him to aid them. Zamalacarregui waited until the Siege of Lecce was over (in November 21) and waited for his entire army to regroup. Then he force marched his entire army throughout the winter in a three week long march and reached Cosenza itself. The city fell on December 29th, and the city was captured. Now the joint Spanish-Sicilian Army marched to the relief of Crotone and the city was taken by them eventually as well on the 26th of January, 1835. The last stronghold of the Neapolitans, Calabro, fell to the Sicilians on February 21, 1835 and the Great Italian War in the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies was over.

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Zumalacarregui's campaign in Naples. The orange line is the Spanish offensives and actions. The red is the Sicilian actions in the war.

King Ferdinand II took up residence in Napoli again and he had the major leaders of the Italian Nationalist Movement in Naples executed, with the lower offenders being thrown to jail or house arrest for life. The Spanish Army alongside Zamalacarregui withdrew from Naples, however as per their agreement with Spain, Ferdinand II allowed the Spanish Navy free docking in Two Sicilian ports for the rest of his reign, alongside a detachment of 20 warships at almost all times in Naples Harbor. As such, the Italian Nationalist movement in Naples was snuffed out. Quite ironically, however this series of events and battles led to not the growth of Italian nationalism, but to native Neapolitan nationalism in Southern Italy. The population deemed Italian nationalism a failure, and instead used popular themes of the war such as the Battle of Matera to further the Neapolitan nationalist cause. The Great Italian War in the south had snuffed out Italian nationalism there, however in its place, another nationalistic sentiment arose. Few decades down the line, an independent Neapolitan state, the State of Naples, would be established as a direct consequence of the Great Italian War in the south.” Zamalacarregui’s Spanish Campaign: Destined for Greatness? Barcelona Publishing, 1993.

“The Papal Victory at the Battle of Grosseto was a disaster for the Tuscans. They had lost their prerogative and initiative after the battle, and instead they were now fighting on the back foot so to speak. The Tuscans were unable to stop the Papal advance towards the city of Siena, and instead were forced to lay down for a siege. In the north, the Papal forces defeated the last major rebel stronghold in Forli and retook the city, restoring Papal rule over the city. They then turned towards Florence, and after a grueling march, laid siege to the city itself on June 24th. However the Second Papal Army was not numerous, nor strong enough to lay siege to the most well-defended city in all of Tuscany and after a defeat in battle (the Battle of Prato), the Papal 2nd Army was forced to march south towards Arrezo which they were able to lay siege to.

On August 12th, 1834, the city of Siena surrendered to the Papal forces, and the Papal 1st Army then swung towards the west hugging the coastline and capturing the key strategic cities of Livorno and Cecina. At this point, the 1st Army then towards Pisa. The city of Pisa was the last thing standing between the 1st Army and Florence, and a serious melee and battle ensued next the area on August 28th, when the 1st Army attacked. The city fell to the Papal forces on the 3rd of September, and the 1st Army resumed their march towards Florence. With the city of Arezzo surrendering on the 7th of September as well, the 2nd Army also swung north to have another go at Florence.

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the papal campaign against Tuscany is shown with the black lines.

At this point, the Tuscans knew they had lost, however they were unwilling to actually surrender, and their ideological power and will, as well as grit for a united Italian nation held firm, even under the circumstances. The Papal forces laid siege to Florence from all sides on September 25th. An epic siege awaited all the forces. The Tuscans had taken all the supplies they could, and had barricaded themselves into the city, willing to duke it could for as long as they could. And the city would only fall in January 30, 1835. The city fell, and with it the Tuscan cause for a United Italy fell to the ground. Grand Duke Leopold II of Tuscany was restored to the Tuscan throne, alongside the House of Austria-Este. And now the second theater in the Great Italian War, also came to an end.

The Papal States then withdrew from the fighting, and declared peace for the state once again. Pope Pius VIII had been vindicated in the war. His reforms had made it possible for the Papal States to fight as it had, as the military reforms enabled the military to fight properly, and his economic reforms also allowed the state to fund the army, fight the war, and keep the economy moving. His administrative policy of allowing lower level direct democratically elected governors and councils to take place in cities, towns and villages had preserved the stability of the nation, and Pius VIII now had the platform to push for more radical reforms. The famous ‘Edicts of Ancona’ that would established by the Papal States on July 15th, 1835 would lay the foundations for the modern Papal State.” Pius VIII the Reformer: His Life and Battles, Theological University of the Vatican, 2008.

“The situation for Charles Albert of Sardinia went from bad to worse. When Radetzky managed to finish the Siege of Milan, and defeated a smaller Sardinian Army sent towards its relief, the Austrians now had the liberty to invade Piedmont. They invaded deep into Piedmont before Charles Albert could respond. On February 1834, the Sardinians and the Austrians clashed the Battle of Alessandria where the Austrians were able to win a tactical victory (not a total victory) and pushed the Sardinians away from their path. This path was Radetzky’s envisioned path towards the Ligurian Sea. Having seen his generals taste defeat, the injured Charles Albert personally took up command in the Sardinian Army and led the charge, even as he clutched his bullet wounded stomach during battle. He managed to win an engagement with the Austrian army near Tortoha in the Battle of Tortoha and forced Radetzky to take the longer route southwards.

Nonetheless, internal factors within the Sardinian Kingdom made Radetzky’s work easier for him. The Genoans had never been willing participants in their annexation within the Sardinian Kingdom, and they held a great deal of anger and angst against the Sardinian state. On March 28th, 1834, they rebelled against the Sardinian government and the region of Genoa within the Sardinian kingdom soon fell into anarchy. Charles Albert was forced to move south to secure his southern flank and take control of Genoa himself. Utilizing this opening, Radetzky instead sent a smaller army detached from his own south to take control of Genoa, and he instead moved to the north towards Alessandria from where he believed he could march into the Po Valley, take Turin and win the war for the Austrians.

Simultaneously, the French invaded Sardinia, this time in earnest. The French alpine troops pinned the best of the Sardinian Alpine troops down in multiple battles in the mountains and invaded the Piedmont through the southern plains, capturing Nice, and then marching through the area. They captured Sanremo on March 12th, and marched towards the east with Savona being their goal. Charles Albert managed to defeat the Genoan rebellion and defeat the small Austrian army sent after him, and then immediately he turned his attention towards the French threat. He marched towards Savona, and surprisingly, managed to defeat the French army at the Battle of Savona.

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the battle of savona

You see, the French had become lax from their military and diplomatic victories in Louisiana and the Partition of Belgium, and many aspects of their tactical maneuvers and attacking formations (like their compact line battalions) were becoming old and Charles Albert used this to his advantage, defeating the French at the Battle of Savona. This forced the French to instead march to Cuneo, abandoning their goal of La Spezia.

In the north, the Sardinians fought a series of hard fought battles with the Austrians, in multiple rearguard and advanced guard actions near Asti and the rest of the Po River Valley, however the epic Battle of the Po River which took place on June 11, 1834 defeated the Sardinians decisively. Radetzky had been wanting a decisive battle for over many months by this point, and he had assembled his army in the forests and mountains in the region, hiding them in plain sight. So when Charles Albert arrived to ask for battle, he only saw a fraction of Radeztky’s forces, and attacked. His army was taken by absolute surprise, when Austrian forces showed themselves from the hills and forests and attacked them at their rears. The Sardinian army crumbled and was forced to turn back. The road to Turin for Radetzy was now clear, and he marched to the city and laid siege to it.

Down with the French, they managed to reach Cuneo and took the city in June. They then split their armies and marched towards Pinerolo and Bra. They managed to take both cities, just in time for the Austrian capture of Turin on the 19th of September, 1834. Charles Albert, from inside the city, was captured by the Austrians.

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The Piedmontese Campaign. The Red line shows Sardinian movements, the Blue shows French movements, and the purple shows Austrian movements.

On the 25th of September, Charles Albert abdicated the throne without a clear heir. The Sardinian council, wishing for leniency from the Austrians in the resulting peace treaty, convened and elected the Austrian Archduke Leopold Ludwig as their monarch. Leopold Ludwig’s election was also the nephew of Charles Albert and was also the next clear heir of the country due to the salic law that Sardinia followed.

The Austrian court accepted the election, and Archduke Leopold Ludwig was crowned King Leopold I Luigi of Sardinia on October 27. He was only 12 years old, however and a regency was created for the new boy king. Meanwhile Austrian and French diplomats were meeting with one another in Geneva, Switzerland under the watchful eye of the Swiss to draft a resolution and treaty for the conflict. The Sardinians literally had only one objective during the negotiations. Survive as coherent state. The French delegation led by Talleyrand (the old decrepit man insisted on going to the negotiations) demanded that Sardinia give up the Savoyard mountains and Savoy valley to France. Austria demanded the other bank of the river Ticino and heavy reparations. The Sardinians agreed to give up the territories however haggled for the price tag of the war.

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King Leopold I Luigi of Sardinia

Eventually a treaty was hashed out and the Treaty of Geneva was signed on November 21, 1834 ending the Great Italian War. The terms of the treaty were:-

  • The annexation of the Savoy region valley into the Kingdom of France.
  • The annexation of the western bank of the Ticino River and its surrounding castles and cities into the Crown of Lombardy-Venetia of the Austrian Empire.
  • The Sardinian state would have to pay 12 million pounds in reparations to the Austrian Empire and 7 million pounds in reparations to the Kingdom of France as reparations (total 19 million pounds representing around 95% of the entire Sardinian GDP).
  • The Sardinian Armed Forces would be limited to 40,000 men and only 30 warships for the next 25 years.
  • The border with France, Austria and the smaller Italian states would be demilitarized for 15 years.
  • Austria would occupy Turin until July 1, 1836.
The treaty devastated Sardinia economically, and the nation would not be able to even afford a military of 40,000 men. It was forced to scale even that down to 25,000 men. The country was forced to carry massive debt, and it lost a lot of its rich regions in the Po valley and the resource rich areas of the Savoy valley. The Sardinian government had been humiliated. However the Sardinian politicians managed to shift the blame to former King Charles Albert, whom they degraded for dragging into the war, glossing over the fact that they had goaded him into the war in the first place.

In France, the small defeats to Sardinia militarily forced the country to enter modernization of its forces, however overall, France had been successful, and Louis XIX had cemented his position in the French kingdom. In Austria, Prince Felix’s positions for reform were vindicated as well. He used the war as example of the result of radical nationalism, and quieted the disconcerted Hungarian magnates regarding the reforms, and managed to push for the Cultural Autonomy Law in 1836 using the war as platform.

As such, the Great Italian War of 1832-35 came to an end. However guerilla Italian nationalistic bands continued to fight against Austrian and French forces even until late 1838, and many historians regard 1838 as a consequence, the actual date for the end of the Great Italian War.

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Italian immigrants arriving in Veracruz Harbor in the 1880s.

The Great Italian War claimed the lives of around 9,000 French, 60,000 Sardinians, 30,000 Austrians, 10,000 Tuscans, 30,000 Neapolitans, 5000 Spaniards, and over 100,000 civilians through death and disease, killing over 250,000 people throughout the peninsula. The war would have further complications. Pro-Italian Venetians were discriminated by the anti-Italian venetian population in Austria, and many immigrated out of the Empire, mainly to the Mexican Empire as a result. Many Neapolitans and Piedmontese peoples, the latter hit by the economic depression that followed the war, also followed their fellow Venetian people’s lead and immigrated to the Mexican Empire. This would be known as the great exodus as around 0.8 to 2 million Italians left the peninsula and immigrated mainly to Mexico, but some immigrated to Brazil and Argentina as well.

The war had also changed the nature of European politics. And the intrigue that followed would be interesting indeed……” Charles Albert the Unlucky: A History of Sardinian Monarchs, University of Savonna, 2017.

“In 1832, Abraham Lincoln managed to finish his law studies in the University of York, and he immigrated to Montreal, where he managed to get a job as a lobbyist. He had finally been able to persuade his father to join him and take up a British Canadian citizenship. His stepmother had followed the path with Abe a long time ago, in that regards.

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Young Abraham Lincoln.

As a lobbyist, Abe came into contact with many influential people in the Lower Canada elite, and political sphere. It helped that Abe’s exemplary marks in the university had caught the eye of John Neilson, an influential Scottish-Quebecois Canadian. Neilson hired Abe as one of his many lobbyist and gave the man a series of lobbyist jobs and errands to run. During these errands, Abe came into contact with many of Neilson’s contacts, and these contacts involved many famous and influential politicians like Francois Blanchet, James Stuart, Daniel Tracy, Andrew Stuart, Robert Nelson, and of course Louis-Joseph Papineau. Papineau in particular took a liking to the young immigrant from America. In his diary he writes:-

…..The young lobbyist from America was quite lanky, and thin if i may add. However the boy was adept at what he did. He conducted Neilson’s business and errands with utmost efficiency and he was quite polite too. The debates in which he got into with us were quite interesting as well, as the boy had an acumen for debates, and his small quips often earned him a good deal of chuckles. Neilson has confided into me that the boy was receiving a lot of attention for his exemplary work. I have high hopes for the boy. His works part time for me have been a great boon for as well……..

In 1835 however Lincoln made the decision to run in the Colonial legislature representing one of the constituent districts of Montreal. This was partially done due to the debt he was racking up. Colonial legislatures have a hefty salary to its sitting council, and Lincoln did not wish to ask his employers for loans, and instead he came forward to contest the elections. By this time, Lincoln was a member of the Patriot Party. This was an autonomist, but pro-British and pro-Loyalty party in Lower Canada founded on the principles of conservative-liberalism, with hints of classical liberalism thrown in. His campaign strategy excluded a discussion of the domestic issues, and concentrated on travelling through his constituency and greeting the voters. The district’s leading Patriot candidate was thankfully for him, Francois Augustine Allard, a man who had shady links with the former rebels in Canada. However Allard was also wily and very cunning and shrew, and he managed to stay one step ahead of his enemies. The local Hunter Party (the opposition party to the Patriots) feared Allard more than Abe, and offered to withdraw two of their candidates from the field of 8, to support Lincoln. Allard, who was confident of his own victory, told Lincoln to go ahead and accept the local Hunter’s endorsement. On February 4, Lincoln polled 1,376 votes, the second highest number of votes in the race, with Allard winning 1,762 as the highest number, and Lincoln won one of the three seats of the constituency.

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A statue of young lincoln in Quebec.

This would start Lincoln’s career with politics. And a tumultuous, yet curious rise of power started within the Colony of Lower Canada.” Abraham Lincoln: The Father of Modern Day Canada, Toronto Publishing, 2008.

***

Robert E. Lee walked in front of the pub door and glanced around before sighing and pinching his nose. He rapped his hand on the door and waited for the signal.

The door creaked open and a voice whispered “Password?”

“When the morning wing screams in the air, with the voices of many in the states yearning for freedom, then the struggle begins.” Lee muttered as the door swung open. He scurried in and the door slammed behind him. The meeting was in full swing as he saw other people in the room speaking and murmuring among themselves.

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a typical DUAY meeting.

“Robert! How goes your career in the army?” One of his friends in the DUAY, Henry asked as he raised a glass.

“It’s going fine, thank you Henry.” Lee answered and sat down, pulling a chair. “How’s the situation going on then? I have been busy with my deployment to the prairies, and I have been missing out on information.”

The people’s faces darkened. One of them lowered his head and answered “Jackson seemed a lot better than Calhoun, however that is a farce. His soft dictatorship is more deadly.”

“What do you mean?” Lee asked as he tilted his head.

“At least Calhoun was direct with what he was doing.” One of the men muttered. “Now people who dare to question the status quo disappear like flies. The government is acting fast. A secret police called the ‘Internal Security Agency’ or the ISA has been formed to keep the ‘peace’ so to speak. However, yes people dying has been drastically lowered.”

“Ah, domestic terrorism.” Lee deadpanned. “Jackson atleast has that down.”

“Where did we go wrong? When did the American dream die?” One of the men in the DUAY groaned.

“I say the moment Washington decided to be President and not King. Look at all the other monarchies! France! Britain! Mexico! Louisiana! They’re all doing fine.” Henry cried out.

“What about New England? They are a republic right?” One of the men asked tentatively.

“New England is nothing but a British puppet by this point, so they don’t count.” Henry answered back.

Lee leaned back as the people turned to him. “What about you Robert? What do you think?”

“A multitude of reasons, I believe.” Lee answered back. “Henry raises a good point. Perhaps, Washington taking the throne instead of the presidency would have been better, but that is a secondary issue. I believe that the arrogance with which we went to war with Britain, lost and then still naively held onto that arrogance led to our downfall really, as a nation.”

“A good point that. American Exceptionalism, the Canucks called it.” One of the older men in the meeting muttered. “We believed that since we were the only colony to successfully rebel, we were entitled to something, and pursued our policy like that.”

“But didn’t Britain impress sailors of ours into service before 1812?” One of the younger men asked out.

“They did, no doubt about that, however the government inflated the issue and whipped the people into a frenzy.” Lee bit out. “As it was, if the real reason had been the impressment of troops, the news of Britain cancelling the impressment with the orders in council and asked for the release of impressed sailors before war had even been declared would have ended the war. No, it was a blatant land grab at British North America, whilst Britain was involved against Bonaparte.”

The men hummed in agreement. Henry spoke up. “If-When we are successful in dismantling this dictatorship, we are going to make pacifism a goddamn national spirit. Fight only in defense and nothing else.”

“Cheers, I will drink to that.” Lee raised his glass in agreement.

***
 
Man that great Italian war is a misnomer, it should really be the gang up on the Italians war.
I kept expecting for some other party to intervene to prevent the French or Austrians from having their way entirely with Italy.
 
Man that great Italian war is a misnomer, it should really be the gang up on the Italians war.
I kept expecting for some other party to intervene to prevent the French or Austrians from having their way entirely with Italy.
yeah it is kinda of a gang up war when you think about it.
the austrians and french knew they only had the authority to take little, knowing that prussia or britain or even russia may intervene
 
How, uh “open” would they be to foreign assistance? Because many of their nervous neighbors would be much more happy with a non dictator neighbor. That and a monarchy they could work with.
 
How, uh “open” would they be to foreign assistance? Because many of their nervous neighbors would be much more happy with a non dictator neighbor. That and a monarchy they could work with.

Probably a bad idea to seek foreign aid. The common people are likely quite sore at the neighbors and fears of a 'foreign puppet' would be likely to shore up support for the Dictatorship.

Still if they come to power with a dim view of expansionism and exceptionalism, that... well that ill be quite an interesting path for ITTL America.

Lee was fighting on the Plains it seems. Hopefully we will get details soon on the situation there.

As for Italy, Northern Italy seems a case of not done yet. A military victory certainly but not a lot done to end resentment for foreign domination and division. Sardinia's people I expect will not take kindly to an Austrian Prince replacing the king who fought for the Italian cause. And while Pan Italian sentiment has declined in Naples its just been replaced in opposing the Bourbons by lca nationalism. So the winners seem to be: the Papal States which have been vindicated in their reforms and deminstrated military might; and now it looks like the Reformer Pope is going to cash that cred in for quite a reform package. And the Austrians who are seeing rebels emigrate rather than plot for the next round, and a territory gain.

And France it seems has despute its rather stinging setbacks eked out a win and is trying to reform its military; and the new king has a victory to start his reign off on a postive note of France continuing the Bourbon growth.
 
How, uh “open” would they be to foreign assistance? Because many of their nervous neighbors would be much more happy with a non dictator neighbor. That and a monarchy they could work with.
i dont really think taking foreign assistance is going to endear them to the population
 
Probably a bad idea to seek foreign aid. The common people are likely quite sore at the neighbors and fears of a 'foreign puppet' would be likely to shore up support for the Dictatorship.
indeed.
Still if they come to power with a dim view of expansionism and exceptionalism, that... well that ill be quite an interesting path for ITTL America.
extremely contrasting in comparison to otl indeed!
Lee was fighting on the Plains it seems. Hopefully we will get details soon on the situation there.
yes we will......
As for Italy, Northern Italy seems a case of not done yet. A military victory certainly but not a lot done to end resentment for foreign domination and division. Sardinia's people I expect will not take kindly to an Austrian Prince replacing the king who fought for the Italian cause. And while Pan Italian sentiment has declined in Naples its just been replaced in opposing the Bourbons by lca nationalism. So the winners seem to be: the Papal States which have been vindicated in their reforms and deminstrated military might; and now it looks like the Reformer Pope is going to cash that cred in for quite a reform package. And the Austrians who are seeing rebels emigrate rather than plot for the next round, and a territory gain.
yep, the Austrians and Papal States are the biggest winners of this war.
And France it seems has despute its rather stinging setbacks eked out a win and is trying to reform its military; and the new king has a victory to start his reign off on a postive note of France continuing the Bourbon growth.
Yes, the Bourbon restoration has been cemented now.
 
Another thing to take from this is the Spanish Wellington will become PM of Spain and apparently set up for the Fall of Spain's Colonial Empire. Given how large it still is that will really shake things up in the Americas.

On a different note I am cynical of the Canadians here having a 'Patriot' Party. Wasn't the term patriot still strongly associated with the American Revolutionaries? Given the downhill state of the Union ITTL I'd think there'd be even less desire to take on anything that could be seen as following America's lead.

Curious how the Great Italian War is supposed to shake things up so much in Europe; the establishment won after all, it hardly seems a rallying cry to nationalists elsewhere. Perhaps its Francophobia that will be on the rise with France expanding so rapidly over the last years?

It seems worth noting that outside the Papal states the restored Italian regimes are not seeming to learn and reform after getting bailed out by the Pope and outsiders. So we get likely prodemocracy agitation in Sicily, another Neapolitan revolt and the Pan Italian cause beaten but not destroyed in the North.
 
Another thing to take from this is the Spanish Wellington will become PM of Spain and apparently set up for the Fall of Spain's Colonial Empire. Given how large it still is that will really shake things up in the Americas.
indeed it will!
On a different note I am cynical of the Canadians here having a 'Patriot' Party. Wasn't the term patriot still strongly associated with the American Revolutionaries? Given the downhill state of the Union ITTL I'd think there'd be even less desire to take on anything that could be seen as following America's lead.
actually the canadians did have a patriot party otl.
Curious how the Great Italian War is supposed to shake things up so much in Europe; the establishment won after all, it hardly seems a rallying cry to nationalists elsewhere. Perhaps its Francophobia that will be on the rise with France expanding so rapidly over the last years?
we'll see.
It seems worth noting that outside the Papal states the restored Italian regimes are not seeming to learn and reform after getting bailed out by the Pope and outsiders. So we get likely prodemocracy agitation in Sicily, another Neapolitan revolt and the Pan Italian cause beaten but not destroyed in the North.
maybe, but for sure italy is far from a done issue
 
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