The Revenge of the Crown : An Alternate 1812 and Beyond.
- Thread starter Sarthak
- Start date
Spain will remain like France in its former African colonies today. Gone but meddling. That's the only thing I will say.
Hi Sārthākā,
I was just wondering what's happening with the Falkland Islands here. You mention them very briefly in passing ("It controlled the sealane from the Southern Atlantic next to the Falklands into the Cone of South America, therefore allowing the New English to gain toll fee from the ships passing through." - bolding mine) but don't give any further information on them.
Here's the history from the relevant time period of OTL:
"Both the British and Spanish settlements coexisted in the archipelago until 1774, when Britain's new economic and strategic considerations led it to voluntarily withdraw from the islands, leaving a plaque claiming the Falklands for King George III. Spain's Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata became the only governmental presence in the territory. West Falkland was left abandoned, and Puerto Soledad became mostly a prison camp. Amid the British invasions of the Río de la Plata during the Napoleonic Wars in Europe, the islands' governor evacuated the archipelago in 1806; Spain's remaining colonial garrison followed suit in 1811, except for gauchos and fishermen who remained voluntarily.
Thereafter, the archipelago was visited only by fishing ships; its political status was undisputed until 1820, when Colonel David Jewett, an American privateer working for the United Provinces of the Río de la Plata, informed anchored ships about Buenos Aires' 1816 claim to Spain's territories in the South Atlantic. Since the islands had no permanent inhabitants, in 1823 Buenos Aires granted German-born merchant Luis Vernet permission to conduct fishing activities and exploit feral cattle in the archipelago. Vernet settled at the ruins of Puerto Soledad in 1826, and accumulated resources on the islands until the venture was secure enough to bring settlers and form a permanent colony. Buenos Aires named Vernet military and civil commander of the islands in 1829, and he attempted to regulate sealing to stop the activities of foreign whalers and sealers. Vernet's venture lasted until a dispute over fishing and hunting rights led to a raid by the American warship USS Lexington in 1831, when United States Navy commander Silas Duncan declared the dissolution of the island's government.
Buenos Aires attempted to retain influence over the settlement by installing a garrison, but a mutiny in 1832 was followed the next year by the arrival of British forces who reasserted Britain's rule. The Argentine Confederation (headed by Buenos Aires Governor Juan Manuel de Rosas) protested against Britain's actions, and Argentine governments have continued since then to register official protests against Britain. The British troops departed after completing their mission, leaving the area without formal government. Vernet's deputy, the Scotsman Matthew Brisbane, returned to the islands that year to restore the business, but his efforts ended after, amid unrest at Port Louis, gaucho Antonio Rivero led a group of dissatisfied individuals to murder Brisbane and the settlement's senior leaders; survivors hid in a cave on a nearby island until the British returned and restored order. In 1840, the Falklands became a Crown colony and Scottish settlers subsequently established an official pastoral community. Four years later, nearly everyone relocated to Port Jackson, considered a better location for government, and merchant Samuel Lafone began a venture to encourage British colonisation." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands)
With you POD being 1812, then everything in the first paragraph here remains true. However, the arrival of Colonel David Jewett is obviously in doubt here: he was from New England (New London, Connecticut) but a different War of 1812 might see him bankrupt, killed, assigned to other duties, or stay back in New England to help his newly independent homeland, etc.
Here's how Jewett ended up involved with the Falklands:
"On June 22, 1815, Jewett arrived in the port of Buenos Aires, aboard his own ship the Invincible. He offered his services to the newly independent United Provinces of the River Plate (later Argentina), which accepted his proposal and authorized his corsair activities against the Spanish. From 1815 to 1817 the Invincible made use of the letter of marque issued for her and Jewett, and four ships were captured: the polacca Tita, the frigate Santander, the brigantines Jupiter and San Antonio, all of them deemed lawful prize by the Government of the United Provinces."
and:
"On November 6, 1820, Col Jewett raised the flag of the United Provinces of the River Plate[7]:111[8] and claimed possession of the islands." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jewett)
Given this, I expect that the history of the Falklands is going to be different ITTL. The butterflies from 1) the different War of 1812 influencing Captain Jewett, 2) the different circumstances involved in the independence of Spain's colonies, 3) the colonial policy of New England, means that the Falkland Islands might not be British ITTL. They could even be split between different colonial powers. There could even be a colonial dispute between New England and Great Britain over the islands...
Either way, the South Atlantic just became a lot more interesting.
As a side note, South Georgia seems to have been claimed by the British from 1775 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Georgia_and_the_South_Sandwich_Islands).
Apologies if I'm interfering though, I just like to run through thinks that might/might not have changed.
Northstar
The Falklands will run aground to problems with New England in the game!
Derek Pullem
Donor
MacDonald might be tempted - he only had a minor functionary position under the Bourbons and played fair by bopth Napoleon and the Restoration Monarchy (a fine line to walk)
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Four way war between Spain, Argentina, New England and Great Britain, when?
Northstar
So does that mean Hearts of Iron IV mod confirmed? I kid, though if anyone is willing...
Anyway, decided to take a crash course in this story after enjoying your work on Russia Resurgent and truth be told, I like the work you did there. Kinda curious about a few things though...
Mexican Empire: Jose I only had daughters, Zenaida (who would be his heir), and Carlota. Since the PoD is early enough, will they still be marrying into the other Bonaparte branches (Zenaida married the Prince of Canino, while Carlota married the former Lodewijk II of Holland), or, now that Jose's position as a reigning monarch is back, that they marry into the other royal houses of Europe?
America: Could we end up seeing America being reduced to basically 7 or so states by the end of it all? I don't exactly see the whole regional thing working out.
No Monroe Doctrine: In fairness it didn't mean much early on IOTL, it was only supported by Britain because the British had business interests in the Americas (and only really stopped at the turn of the 20th century when it showed that America was now strong enough to enforce its doctrine for itself) Then again, with no Monroe Doctrine means yeah, Spain could very well get away with a lot of crap that we know France does with its former African colonies. Makes me wonder for Haiti though.
Thanks.
Yeah I do intend to look into Zenaida's husbands for the future. Speaking about America would be a spoiler
Lusitania
Donor
The extent of America expansion west (country) will depend on the outcome of the war.
1) South wins and conquers the northern states ( we could see a steady flow of anti slavery people migrate west and into BNA. So we could see an expanded BNA and a "free" USA being established west of the Mississippi.
2) Draw north continues to expand west eventually setting stage for conflict with BNA in Oregon with south setting its sights on Texas and New Mexico to get to California. eventual another war with northern USA.
3) North wins and defeats USA taking all land west Mississippi with slave owning USA much weaker both morally and financial.
Best Scenario for Mexico is a northern win
I don't think any expansion west will be as easy as OTL. ITL, native nations are a thing - if settlers start pushing native American tribes around, they can look for allies who can push the USA - whatever form it takes - right back.
Please, folks, having a Native American Nation on the continent (and allied to the dominant superpower of the century) is a HUGE game changer. The precedent alone that this sets will mean OTL trends are now seriously invalidated. There is no "frontier" to take here.
Please, folks, having a Native American Nation on the continent (and allied to the dominant superpower of the century) is a HUGE game changer. The precedent alone that this sets will mean OTL trends are now seriously invalidated. There is no "frontier" to take here.
Lusitania
Donor
The movement of the Natives to the Native state from the south would attract some of the Natives but not all would move and there still be thousands of natives whom many have adopted western ways (reason called civilized tribes. These tribes had become farmers with slaves of their own and with the Spanish to the south should be able to sell their products to Europe and be able to buy weapons and other goods. So we still have issues there. As for Native groups west of the Mississippi they would have contact with the Native nation and they would be stronger and as indicated not just willing to be pushed around.
Or are dead in the water completely, which is fine too, keep America largely to its 1783 borders...
unprincipled peter
Donor
It won't be as easy. Throw OTL trends out the window. That includes east of the Mississippi as well. However, white encroachment will occur, and then expand, and encroach some more. unless the natives throw themselves wholeheartedly into remaking themselves in white image (technically not ASB, but not too far from it), and fast , ultimately they have a losing hand. May not go as badly as OTL, but it's a long shot to go well.