The return of the phalanx?

Discipline is indeed the problem. But if ancient mobs eventually learned discipline why can't modern mobs?

Because most modern protesters don't grow up in a culture that instills values supportive to operating in a phalanx, or have not been trained to operate in these sorts of formations, or aren't capable of holding their discipline in the teeth of determined (and, most likely, superior) opposition.

And while ancient mobs were fairly common, I'm very hard-pressed to come up with any examples of them organizing themselves in orderly formations and then holding against intense pressure.
 
Modern anti-riot techniques provide an alternative to lethal force. The point of rioters adopting phalanx techniques is not to defeat police phalanx, but to nullify non-lethal measures and force the government to chose between a massacre or capitulation.

or, you know, Ignore them until they Disperse.
there is a lot of different options between the options of Massacre and Capitulation. A government is not going to automatically Cave in or Order the Massacre.

Riot shields and gas masks are cheaply available through the internet. Buying in bulk, the shields are about $30, gas masks $20 each. Riot helmets about the same price. Organized protests with a modicum of planning can easily procure professional equipment.

But it still ignores one Important question.

Is it Legal?
that's Great you and your Protester buddies are gonna show up with your gas Mask and Shields, and you're going there...
and then you get arrested because it's Illegal to Own a Military Grade Gas Mask or police Riot shield.

Look at that, the Protest has Collapsed because no one checked to see if it's Legal.
 
They had some org. Had guys guarding the captured police. Also the tactics they used to isolate the police and capture them was pretty well done. Koreans know how to riot. Will see if I can youtube it.

Found the clip, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raIUECVwxAw

Here's another good clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMi7Jkay0fY&feature=related

And when you need to storm the mad scientists castle, call these guys:

830849611_255f5d0f5a_o.jpg


830849601_12d91b36a2_o.jpg


Korean's know how to do things right. There're more here: http://www.who-sucks.com/people/the-exciting-world-of-south-korean-protests

Because most modern protesters don't grow up in a culture that instills values supportive to operating in a phalanx, or have not been trained to operate in these sorts of formations, or aren't capable of holding their discipline in the teeth of determined (and, most likely, superior) opposition.

And while ancient mobs were fairly common, I'm very hard-pressed to come up with any examples of them organizing themselves in orderly formations and then holding against intense pressure.

Some of those Korean's do quite well against the cops.
 
Why not?

Why not? And I like the idea, too.

You know, all the King's horses - Kings of Persia - FAILED to stop the Greek phalanxes. Among other reasons, it's because they were spear-armed. Why would it go differently now? Yeah, the spear's shorter than a pike, but if a horse tries to run down or push a phalanx, the horse's still likely going to get poked.

And, remember two more things: plenty of protesters are both experienced and sophisticated at what they do. They already often act in sync even across causes of action. High modern idle times, transportability, and communications give protestors alot of potential. Some protestors are even paid pros.

So, suppose an Athenian protest group of Marxists had formed two years ago. They decided it'd be cool to resurrect the old phalanx formation for protests, carrying their signs on their spears. A leader volunteered to organize it. A subsequent discussion decided to pad the shields and spear ends to help with legality and peaceful message. A web site published the ideas.

A core adopted it as their hobby and practiced alot, though most were alot less enthusiastic.

At the next protest they attended, taking Eurail, the core were put in the lead and other key areas. There was no clash at the first protest, and by the end of the event, they had basic discipline and movement down. 'Most everybody else was envious of them, and their site got many protestor community hits after that. Plenty of non-Marxists showed in padded shields and spears in the next event, and even eventually joined in. This time a battle happened, and the phalanxes were eventually routed after a long successful stand.

The group's leader wrote a long constructive criticism, explaining what had happened, and what should happen differently next time if they wanted to stay in the field next time. There were extra practices, and more attended.

The next time a clash happened, they stuck; and vendors were selling padded phalanx gear. Everybody kept reading the criticisms after each battle. By today, there's enough veteran core to stick in most battles.
 
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Why not? And I like the idea, too.

You know, all the King's horses - Kings of Persia - FAILED to stop the Greek phalanxes. Among other reasons, it's because they were spear-armed. Why would it go differently now? Yeah, the spear's shorter than a pike, but if a horse tries to run down or push a phalanx, the horse's still likely going to get poked.

And, remember two more things: plenty of protesters are both experienced and sophisticated at what they do. They already often act in sync even across causes of action. High modern idle times, transportability, and communications give protestors alot of potential. Some protestors are even paid pros.

So, suppose an Athenian protest group of Marxists had formed two years ago. They decided it'd be cool to resurrect the old phalanx formation for protests, carrying their signs on their spears. A leader volunteered to organize it. A subsequent discussion decided to pad the shields and spear ends to help with legality and peaceful message. A web site published the ideas.

A core adopted it as their hobby and practiced alot, though most were alot less enthusiastic.

At the next protest they attended, taking Eurail, the core were put in the lead and other key areas. There was no clash at the first protest, and by the end of the event, they had basic discipline and movement down. 'Most everybody else was envious of them, and their site got many protestor community hits after that. Plenty of non-Marxists showed in padded shields and spears in the next event, and even eventually joined in. This time a battle happened, and the phalanxes were eventually routed after a long successful stand.

The group's leader wrote a long constructive criticism, explaining what had happened, and what should happen differently next time if they wanted to stay in the field next time. There were extra practices, and more attended.

The next time a clash happened, they stuck; and vendors were selling padded phalanx gear. Everybody kept reading the criticisms after each battle. By today, there's enough veteran core to stick in most battles.

Problem.

Now they're Carrying Spears in public.
I believe in most places, that would be considered a Crime, Padded or not.
 
Even if a political organization manufactures or smuggles riot shields (they would rise a few eyebrows at customs) most States security systems (aka internal intelligence) will know and will have said organization infiltrated.
And nobody in its right mind will send horses against such protesters, as they can just break their formation with water hoses mounted on armored cars (and nothing short of rpgs are getting through that) followed by spraying the protesters with rubber bullets.
So, no, even if ancient warfare can still teach a thing or two, there won't be a replay of ancient battles these days.
 
I was watching Greek protests the other day and it occurred to me that though the riot police have re-adopted the phalanx formation, what keeps the protesters from doing the same?
Small point there: you're looking for a shield wall. For it to be a phalanx the protestors need to come armed with Xystons, Sarrisas or Pikes.

At which point the whole thing moves from a protest to an armed uprising and "The (squished) protester on the Tank tracks goes round and round... round and round... round and round..."
:rolleyes:
 
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