The Restless Twenties (CP Victory Timeline)

Thande

Donor
When did colour moving photography become viable ?
There were colour films taken of particularly important events like coronations as early as 1900, and there was that Englishman who went around the country taking colour films in the 1920s, but that was a highly experimental new method. OTOH, if you want to say that for some reason it gets invested in and catches on in TTL, you could perhaps see regular use of colour newsreels and films by, I don't know, 1932-ish?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
The annextion of Belgium Luxembourg (BL) are going to have interesting consequencies. BL is home to a third of Wallons population, which will mean that the population of Flandern is now in majority, this is somewhat offset by the Francophone elite in Flanders, but some of the bitterness from the Flemish is going to stay or even increase, I could see Brussel staying Flemish thanks to lowered Francophone immigration and a stronger Flemish nationalism, we can end up with a Belgium which is 80% Flemish instead of 60%. In Germany the new Francophone population (in both Luxembourg and Lorraine) is likely to face limitation in the use of French which could either mean a development of the local Romance dialect into independent languages or the adoption of the local Germanic dialects as a protest against Standard German, or both things could happen at the same time.
 
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I'm surprised; you'd think Britain would face far more troubles in teh 20s economically.

Although do they still try revaluing the pound?
 
Forgive me, as far as this timeline goes I am a bit sceptical about some of the military details.

First off how have the Germans solved the problem of advancing beyond 30 km from the breakthrough zone? After the initial successes of 1914 I am not aware of any German offensive on the Western front that did not break down less than 30 km from its start lines. It wasn't just resistance that stopped them, they didn't have a way of bringing up sufficient supplies or reinforcements to maintain the momentum of their offensives.

Again forgive me, I have a number of problems with part three

There is no real NEED for a treaty


The nations of this timeline will be no less broke than the ones of our timeline, that was one of the primary impeti (is that a word?) for Washington

The isolationist USA focuses on the completion of the best ship types (ie not the Lexingtons)

In this timeline as in our timeline the overambitious 1916 and 1919 programs are a political train wreck for the USN, in this timeline as in our timeline they will be out of political capital and reduced to damage limitation in trying to stop Congress cancelling everything. This is actually a blessing in disguise because all of the ships of the 1916 and 1919 programs were hopelessly obsolete. It would be far better for the USN to cancel as much of the 1916 and 1919 programs as was prudent, then wait a few years and start again with better designs. Some of the ‘spring styles’ of the 1921 and 1922 battleships were very modern, very well thought out and would have been extremely capable.

Japan slowly plods on through the 8-8 programme, building in additional but deliberate delays, especially after the 1923 Tokyo Earthquake


I agree here, which will be a big problem for them, because they will be commissioning obsolete ships well into the 1930s. Furthermore the strain will hamstring their economy reducing growth and hampering development.

Germany slowly completes those under construction (compromise between navy and political Left)

You might be able to do something with Kaiser Willie's battleship fixation though Germany will be cash-strapped in the short-term. We need to know why the German government would give any more support to the ridiculous white elephant that was the high Seas Fleet? It was vastly expensive and had a very little impact on the war, failing entirely in its stated aim of wresting control of the North Sea from the British. A programme of submarine building should supplant any notion of building more battleships if the Germans were pursuing a rational policy, though of course the notion of any German government between 1898 and 1945 pursuing a rational policy is almost ASB. :p

A more interesting question might be ‘With whom would the Germans seek parity with in any naval treaty? What will drive their negotiating position apart from money?

Britain will slowly complete the Hoods, build in redesigns etc but a Labour government won't care much for new designs and will stop work on planning N3/G3 etc


Why would Britain build the obsolete Hoods? The RN was the only navy that seriously appraised the lessons of World War I in the short-term and tried to incorporate them in subsequent designs. Other navies took much longer to digests them and some (like the various incarnations of the German navy) did not appear to absorb any of the lessons at all.

In turn, Germany won't feel the need to lay down new ship types or proceed further with the Yorcks. It completes the remaining Badens and the 4 Mackensens


Again I think it is possible that the Kaiser's battleship obsession could lead to a large German fleet but what I think you need to explore is who is driving naval policy? To what end (against what threat)? And how effective will they be in finessing the Kaiser. (Tirpitz was very effective at finessing the Kaiser, his successor will need to be also to give Germany a coherent naval plan.)

Defeated France scraps all ships building (and thus no Bearn as a carrier)


Why no carrier?

Italy completes 2 of the Carriocolos (I can never spell that !) as the Austro-Hungarian navy is still intact and a potential threat


With what money? Austria Hungary may still be a threat but they will be broke too, both nations would be very enthusiastic about a naval treaty and even if the other powers can't agree one it wouldn't surprise me if they agreed one between themselves.

Britain is forced by the Treaty of The Hague to retrocede Agincourt and Erin to the Ottomans

Here I agree.

(no great loss to Britain since under Labour it plans a large programme of decommissioning and laying up of all but the most modern ship classes)
I cannot see even the most delusional of McDonald governments giving away Britannia's Trident except within the framework of a treaty. The dominions and the Empire (particularly Australia and New Zealand) won't stand for it, it shows an unwillingness to defend that empire that would be a spur to its dissolution. Furthermore it would be giving the opposition a huge rod with which to beat the governments back because of the blow to prestige.

Salamis is sold at a cut-price deal to the Netherlands and completed with new guns ordered from the USA


The existing guns and turrets were extant on British monitors (one was sunk at the Dardanelles but in shallow water and the guns and mountings were salvaged) the economy of the Netherlands was severely damaged by World War I, if they were going to complete the Salamis at all, they would want to do it in a cut-price way.
 
I don't know about the British party leaders but what are you looking for for a U.S. President? If you want for more isolationism, get Gerald Nye. Another guy could be Charles Evan Hughes who was defeated by Wilson in 1916, he could run again. As for British rightists, I can recall a few who I believe weren't affiliated with the BUF; Arnold Leese, John Amery and Henry H. Beamish.

Also, having recently developed an interest for early 20th Century Mongolia because of my own TL, I'd like to know more about the situation in Mongolia. I believe it is a Japanese client-state but what government is in place and who is leader? And I assume Pavlo Skoropadsky is hetman of Ukraine, is he?

Thanks for the help here. I've, probably controversially, gone with Josephus Daniels as president in 1928; its explained in the instalments to come, though I have a lot of answering questions and criticism to do first before I post them, it seems !

Mongolia sees the Bogdkhan die in 1924, and IIRC his successor as with the Dalai Llama would be a child. Thus there is a regency of generals, pro-Japanese basically running the country

Yes, I've gone with Skoropadsky Ukraine and a Tatar Crimea (though I need to check when the Bolsheviks executed Celibicehan (sp?) in case it was before the POD when I'd need someone else !)

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
What about Slavic and Baltic populations under German rulership ?
Austro-Hungary didn't change any borders ?
Are the Eastern states ruled de facto by Ober Ost or German puppets ?

I skipped over the borders of Poland since I forgot to mention that they were as intended by the Austro-German alliance, basically ex-Russian Congress Poland plus Galicia-Krakow from Austria, plus as much buffer border in the East as they could get away with (which I think would be something of a general staff obsession)

The Eastern states evolve from a situation where Germany controls both the military and the economy to one where Germany controls the general direction of their foreign policy and has great economic influence, but no longer directly controls the economies. I hope that makes sense !

I'm thinking that the Estonians and Latvians, whilst unhappy at not having their independence at least recognise that all that has happened is that they have exchanged a Russian master for a German one, and have their native (if Germanic) elite running things for the moment.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I do not see this happening at all. Vittorio Veneto is still not until November, so at this point the Austrians and the Germans have the upper hand with their troops along the Piave. If France is defeated, there is even more reason for Italy to make a quick peace as the Germans will have the available troops to force the river crossing. Even if Germany wants to make peace with Italy, I do not see Austro-Hungarian leadership acceding to this when they have what seems to be the upper hand in Italy.

On one hand I might agree if things were done purely on the military balance of power, but I simply don't think it would be. Italy is in alliance with Britain, and Britain has to agree the whole treaty, so Italy is going to have to get something from the war, no matter how small it might seem to them. Austria-Hungary is retaining the Southern Tyrol and Trieste itself, so the losses, whilst painful, are endurable.

I simply think that diplomacy would be at work here, rather than pure logic

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
...there is a contradiction there.

The rest of Alsace and Lorraine? That would be quite a large territorial concession! It would be the entirety of the departments of Meurthe-et-Moselle, Meuse, Vosges and Belfort to complete Alsace. And Germany wouldnt need to occupy the Bre region, as it would be inside it, IIRC.

So, I dont think that is really what you meant.

OK, it probably isn't ! I'd need to check some maps. I wrote this on a train, and even when back at my place typing it up I don't have access to the internet, so its books or saved files. I'll try and see what exactly I did mean!


OTOH, I think France has come off incredibly easy in the colonial question, apparently. IOTL, colonial territries were the firts to be given away, and hueg amounts of land in Africa wasnt seen nearly as much worth as the tiniest spots in Europe. I do think at least all French Central Africa might hence fall to Germany, and maybe even parts of French West Africa. And the Germans might empathise getting all of the Belgian Congo to connect Cameroon and German East Africa.

Well, I've given most of Central Africa (as in modern CAR) to Germany, plus Gabon to add to Kamerun.

Restoring Togoland in full would be a blow in itself, since Britain and France had agreed to divide it up. I don't see anything else of West Africa changing hands, because to take it on would be to simply add to Germany's problems in taking up its colonial governance again

But I think that Britain would not allow all of the Congo to go to Germany. As it is, adding the Eastern Congo and Northern Mozambique makes Tanganyika a pretty huge colony as it is...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Most likely the Bogd Khan (death 1924) and then that reincarnation that was proclaimed by the communist to be "never found".

Ah yes, I see someone had mentioned it already :) I'm assuming the resurrection is a child ? Thus I have a regency of generals running the country, pro-Japanese etc

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
There were colour films taken of particularly important events like coronations as early as 1900, and there was that Englishman who went around the country taking colour films in the 1920s, but that was a highly experimental new method. OTOH, if you want to say that for some reason it gets invested in and catches on in TTL, you could perhaps see regular use of colour newsreels and films by, I don't know, 1932-ish?

Thank you. I wasn't aware that there was moving footage that early, though I know that various early techniques for still photograpsh existed (I remember the Russian guy).

I know that Hitler's entourage was using colour cine-film cameras in the late 1930s, so was wondering how much earlier we could ATL this technology into existence...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
its my first post, so cut me a break but I've been flippin through a lot of the posts and its all pretty cool and shows a lot of research and consideration its pretty damn great to find people with this interest too:D. With that outta the way what about American socialists? I could imagine that Red Russians could get to the US some how maybe not Lenin or Stalin, maybe Trotsky? or Molotov? or someone else lower down the ladder? There was a relatively infuential socialist movement in the twenties and since their is no USSR there is no red scare, socialism would be practical to many urban poor. If America has a President Lodge I think that the union movement would evolve differently. Back to Europe who's the Russian Czar? I caught that the whites won but I seem to remember that the Archduke Michael refused the throne in our timeline does that mean that Nicholas is still alive? I don't think thats possible.

I need help with the lingo OTL=our timeline I think whats TTL? and ITTL?
 
oh the color film had been around for awhile. I remember watching the first Phantom of the Opera (the silent film so 1910s) and there was a one piece of color, the phantoms red cape. Technicolor was just a mechanical process using chemicals to color film the desired color. so I'm guessing '25-'30 probably germany due to their chemical firms IG Farben etc.
 
OK, this could take me a while...

Forgive me, as far as this timeline goes I am a bit sceptical about some of the military details.

First off how have the Germans solved the problem of advancing beyond 30 km from the breakthrough zone? After the initial successes of 1914 I am not aware of any German offensive on the Western front that did not break down less than 30 km from its start lines. It wasn't just resistance that stopped them, they didn't have a way of bringing up sufficient supplies or reinforcements to maintain the momentum of their offensives.

Well, there has to be a POD and I can't see a better one! Anyway, I haven't got them advancing in a Blitzkrieg fashion - they advance to Paris but lay siege to it at first, then they face counterattacks, then they go on the advance again. I'm no military expert, but I would think that if there was a will and the opportunity than a way could be found...

Again forgive me, I have a number of problems with part three

There is no real NEED for a treaty


The nations of this timeline will be no less broke than the ones of our timeline, that was one of the primary impeti (is that a word?) for Washington

Yes, but a new naval race is NOT in the making here, and that was the main impetus for the treaty. A nation can choose to do what it wants with its own shipbuilding, but it was the fear that current plans would soon be outclassed by the oppositions new ones and that a race that would bankrupt them would begin. Maybe SOMEONE makes a move towards a treaty, but I don't see it happening here. After all, why tie yourself down when future flexibility could be vital ?

The isolationist USA focuses on the completion of the best ship types (ie not the Lexingtons)

In this timeline as in our timeline the overambitious 1916 and 1919 programs are a political train wreck for the USN, in this timeline as in our timeline they will be out of political capital and reduced to damage limitation in trying to stop Congress cancelling everything. This is actually a blessing in disguise because all of the ships of the 1916 and 1919 programs were hopelessly obsolete. It would be far better for the USN to cancel as much of the 1916 and 1919 programs as was prudent, then wait a few years and start again with better designs. Some of the ‘spring styles’ of the 1921 and 1922 battleships were very modern, very well thought out and would have been extremely capable.

I just reckoned that with a somewhat ignominious retreat from Europe, the Navy would get priority. As the US heads into isolationism, it would focus on its best barrier to protect it. The ships under construction are not flawed in themselves (otherwise why did they complete SOME of them). It was the fear that they would be outclassed by new designs of other powers that gave the impetus towards Washington and made them stop their current building

Japan slowly plods on through the 8-8 programme, building in additional but deliberate delays, especially after the 1923 Tokyo Earthquake


I agree here, which will be a big problem for them, because they will be commissioning obsolete ships well into the 1930s. Furthermore the strain will hamstring their economy reducing growth and hampering development.

Not sure why you think they would be obselete ? Any one building over a period of time incorporates changes and improvements in successive designs over that period. The ships would be recognisable by the original plans, but would by 1930 have emerged with other things built in

Germany slowly completes those under construction (compromise between navy and political Left)

You might be able to do something with Kaiser Willie's battleship fixation though Germany will be cash-strapped in the short-term. We need to know why the German government would give any more support to the ridiculous white elephant that was the high Seas Fleet? It was vastly expensive and had a very little impact on the war, failing entirely in its stated aim of wresting control of the North Sea from the British. A programme of submarine building should supplant any notion of building more battleships if the Germans were pursuing a rational policy, though of course the notion of any German government between 1898 and 1945 pursuing a rational policy is almost ASB. :p

To give up on new construction would be a huge loss of face, but economic imperatives are going to mean that no new ships would be laid down. Several of these completed here are launched/launchable in 1918 anyway, so its work to complete them that is different. In addition, the German Navy isn't going to allow its shipbuilding expertise to vanish by not employing its men

A more interesting question might be ‘With whom would the Germans seek parity with in any naval treaty? What will drive their negotiating position apart from money?

Britain will slowly complete the Hoods, build in redesigns etc but a Labour government won't care much for new designs and will stop work on planning N3/G3 etc


Why would Britain build the obsolete Hoods? The RN was the only navy that seriously appraised the lessons of World War I in the short-term and tried to incorporate them in subsequent designs. Other navies took much longer to digests them and some (like the various incarnations of the German navy) did not appear to absorb any of the lessons at all.

I basically went with the idea that if its going to build anything (and I think sufficient authority within the Navy would press for SOMETHING) it is going to build what it has authorisation, stockpiled equipment and begun


Defeated France scraps all ships building (and thus no Bearn as a carrier)


Why no carrier?

I simply don't see a defeated France having the combination of money to proceed, political vision to see its uses etc

Italy completes 2 of the Carriocolos (I can never spell that !) as the Austro-Hungarian navy is still intact and a potential threat


With what money? Austria Hungary may still be a threat but they will be broke too, both nations would be very enthusiastic about a naval treaty and even if the other powers can't agree one it wouldn't surprise me if they agreed one between themselves.

Money isn't finite (which comes as a surprise sometimes) and can be conjured up to pay for things. Budgets can be shuffled around. The ships are already BEING built, so completing two is not like starting two completely new ships.


(no great loss to Britain since under Labour it plans a large programme of decommissioning and laying up of all but the most modern ship classes)
I cannot see even the most delusional of McDonald governments giving away Britannia's Trident except within the framework of a treaty. The dominions and the Empire (particularly Australia and New Zealand) won't stand for it, it shows an unwillingness to defend that empire that would be a spur to its dissolution. Furthermore it would be giving the opposition a huge rod with which to beat the governments back because of the blow to prestige.

The navy is getting the Hoods, to whatever new design emerges, and its keeping everything from KGV and Lion onwards for the moment, though not all in commission. The actual details are not THAT different from the eventual effects of OTL's policy as emerged with the Washington treaty. The difference is that it begins earlier, and is a voluntary act.

Salamis is sold at a cut-price deal to the Netherlands and completed with new guns ordered from the USA

The existing guns and turrets were extant on British monitors (one was sunk at the Dardanelles but in shallow water and the guns and mountings were salvaged) the economy of the Netherlands was severely damaged by World War I, if they were going to complete the Salamis at all, they would want to do it in a cut-price way.

OK, re-using the turrets makes sense. I couldn't remember what had happened to them...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
its my first post, so cut me a break but I've been flippin through a lot of the posts and its all pretty cool and shows a lot of research and consideration its pretty damn great to find people with this interest too:D. With that outta the way what about American socialists? I could imagine that Red Russians could get to the US some how maybe not Lenin or Stalin, maybe Trotsky? or Molotov? or someone else lower down the ladder? There was a relatively infuential socialist movement in the twenties and since their is no USSR there is no red scare, socialism would be practical to many urban poor. If America has a President Lodge I think that the union movement would evolve differently. Back to Europe who's the Russian Czar? I caught that the whites won but I seem to remember that the Archduke Michael refused the throne in our timeline does that mean that Nicholas is still alive? I don't think thats possible.

I need help with the lingo OTL=our timeline I think whats TTL? and ITTL?

OTL is simply Our Timeline (ie historically). Its quicker than typing "In reality" all the time :) TTL would I guess be This Timeline, ITTL probably IN this timeline

I admit I forgot about the US Socialists so I'll have a closer look at them

The situation in Russia is explained in one of the forthcoming pieces that I haven't had time to post yet (what with answering questions etc). Basically, Nicholas and family, as well as Michael, are dead. This leaves the succession question in some confusion, especially with Kyril's association with the Bolsheviks, and Dmitri's pro-Britishness. I've gone with a rule of the generals, with Judenich as ceremonial head of state, later replaced by Denikin. Its not seen as a permanent solution, but for the moment an emergency measure due to ongoing wars etc

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I'm not sure why Italy gets rewarded so heavily for being on the losing side. Regarding the Dodecanese, for example, as they were in illegal occupation of them in the first place, the Germans are going to lose the Ottomans as friends by doing this.

In the Arabian territories, the Arab revolt is completely irrelevant. You didn't flesh out what happened in that theater, but a CP victory will shore up pro-Ottoman sentiment there (i.e. revived feeling that the empire is necessary to defend the Umma) - although I agree after the vicissitudes of the war something will have to change. My feeling is that the CUP regime can't survive without the war and that greater autonomy in local affairs will have to develop.

How did the campaigns in Palestine progress? I would assume with a German breakthrough there would be enormous pressure to strip troops from a rather unimportant theater.
 

Susano

Banned
Well, I've given most of Central Africa (as in modern CAR) to Germany, plus Gabon to add to Kamerun.
Oops, I meant French Equatorial Africa, of course - that is, Gabon, Congo, CAR and Chad. I mean, more or less France is lucky to keep colonies at all, due to aforementioned reasoning and the reversed OTL example. That Gernany might at fist not be able to properly govern those colonies is I think in the mindset of the time fully, completly irrelevant. I dont think you can have France went off without losing at least one of its major colonies.

Germany not even annexing the Bre area and only pretty minor territories in the colonies, while losing SW Africa, Tsingtao, Samoa and North West New Guinea - that I think would be seen as a sort of "won the war on the field, lost it on the negotiation table", similar to IOTL Italy.

The only thing to worry about is indeed GB. Indeed, GB would be the reason why France doesnt lose ALL her colonies, though IMO even GB would have the exception that France is going to lose some colonies...
 
Pt 8

Notes


USA

I envisage the USA as having stuck to a largely pro-Western bias, subconscious most of the time, and not actioned during the 1920s in any way. However, with a crisis brewing that looks likely to threaten a new world war, they send observers to the Japanese side (the FER) and gain bases from Portugal, a country not keen on pursuing the German alliance of its Spanish neighbours.

Portugal sees its attempt to draw closer to the USA as a way out of its political impasse stranded between Britain and Germany, with political factions supporting both. The new US president sees the offer of bases in the Azores as a very useful stepping stone, and one that won't arouse too much controversy back home, whilst the despatch of a squadron for the Western Mediterranean is backed up with reference to such squadrons in the early 19th century, showing that naval deployment abroad is not a deviation from the American norm (something which has become a byword in American political circles)


Britain

Britain has rebuilt some of its position in the world, but is plagued by internal weaknesses and crises as the decade nears its end. The 1929 election sees the first cohesive Conservative challenge since the end of the war, but is fought in a fraught atmosphere with right wing groups taking to the streets to fight their political opponents and advocate extreme measures

King George V is ageing and tiring, the shock of the war's end in 1918 never having been properly overcome. Through a sense of duty he has remained on the throne, but as troubles mount during the election campaign rumours begin to circulate that he intends to abdicate for Edward, Prince of Wales and thus usher in a new lease of life for the monarchy


Russia

Russia has gradually stabilised under German oversight, with financial and military aid at first coming from the general staff who retained immediate oversight of policy in the East after the war, and then after the election of a centre-right majority in the Reichstag from the government directly. Initially this aid was focused on stabilising the ruling coalition, and then on reconquering Central Asia, but the impetus from that has now led them to challenge the remaining 'aberration' (ie non-Brest Litovsk alteration), that of the Far Eastern Republic

Discussions on the restoration of the monarchy have been going on for years, but the various factions have found it difficult to agree - few wanted the tainted Red Grand Duke, Kyril, yet he is the immediate heir by birth, though many ultra traditionists claim that his marital irregularities should rule him out. Grand Duke Dmitri, a favourite of many, is seen as variously too pro-British or too much an independent player to be allowed to come in over the generals.

Judenich was initially installed as ceremonial head of state, mainly due to his key role in defeating the Bolsheviks and his close ties with the Germans. Later in the 1920s, this role was taken by Denikin, and he made more of an active use of it, much to the discontent of rivals. The rebuilding and reconquest efforts largely distracted attention from this political infighting, but it remains bubbling dangerously under the surface

The generals have allowed elections at local and regional level, but maintain an effective junta system in control of the country, encouraged by the German general staff not to rock the boat after their defeat of the Bolsheviks, and keen thereafter not to hand power over to elements that they would disagree with. The emergencies of stabilisation and Central Asian reconquest have been used to justify this to divergent elements in the empire, but these are again calling for the age of the generals to end. To such people, the threat of a new war in the Far East is seen as a ploy to preserve the generals role in running the country


Germany

Although the German general staff gave up their role in running foreign affairs in the East, the centre-eight government has largely followed where they left off. Actual German garrisons have progressively reduced during the 1920s, evacuating for instance Bessarabia and Georgia, but German advisors in substantial numbers remain attached to the armed forces of this bloc

A so-far quiet controversy is raising its head about the role of such forces should Russia end up at war not only with the FER but with Japan. Strident voices led by the Kaiser suggest that this would be no bad thing, and the 'Yellow Devils' would finally find out the true mettle of Germany's finest. Saner heads in the government doubt that anything good could come of such direct involvement, and see only the final loss of the N Pacific islands as any sort of definite consequence

But the question is not as clearcut as that, since the advisors come under Russian control, and to intervene and ban them from the front would be to destabilise their own allies in Moscow.


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Pt 9

Further Details

USA

Whilst Lodge's OTL death date is 1924, I don't view such things as set in stone as many butterflies had been at work since 1918. Should he die in office during his second term, then his VP would succeed as President. Who this individual is would be interesting, but not necessarily relevant for later events

I am thinking of Josephus Daniels as the victorious Democratic candidate in 1928; he has what many Democrats lack, a successful wartime record. Whatever else can be said about the US performance in the Great War, the naval side cannot be so easily criticised, and he escapes the Wilsonian epitaph of having sent Americans to fight Europe's war by being easily able to point to precedents going right back to the early 1800s when US ships served in European waters

We could envisage a somewhat lacklustre remnant presidency for the last couple of years of Lodge's second term, served out by his VP, followed by a 1928 campaign that doesn't really address the problems afoot in the world as tensions rise and the threat of another huge war looms. Against this, Daniels can posit a more active policy, one that builds on US naval precedents without risking the involvement of land forces

He is c68, but presumably in good health as in OTL he didn't die until 1948 and age hasn't really been a bar to the US presidency


Ottoman Empire

Things have not been great in many areas, despite being on the side of the victors in 1918. The feeling that victory was owed to the actions of the Germans on other fronts is a difficult one to shake, and even among the educated classes in Istanbul there is a certain ennui.

The restoration of the battleships Agincourt and Erin by the Treaty of The Hague is mainly symbolic, and though the empire gets up manpower to crew the ships, their actual value is regarded as problematic. The Tsarist empire has ceased to exist, and with Bessarabia, Ukraine, Crimea and the Southern Caucasus lost to it, only Nicolaevsk remains as a major port in the Black Sea, and one which is at best home to a few cruisers, submarines and destroyers. Likewise, the Greek navy has been severely hit by the war (when a large part of it was taken over by the Allied powers) and Greece's loss of Salonika and subsequent abortive war with Bulgaria has robbed it of all likelihood of building up its naval forces. Conversely, Egypt's independence has not removed Britain from the scene, and the Royal Navy, even drastically cut down under Labour, remains too much of a potential threat to ever realistically approach.

Thus the Yavuz, Osman and Reshadieh serve best in the role of symbols of continuing Ottoman imperium.

Ottoman occupation of Armenia and Northern (ie ex-Russian) Azerbaijan is not an easy one either. Relations with the Armenian leaders are never easy, though they remain viable and a certain amount of autonomy is granted to (ex-Russian) Armenia. In Azerbaijan, Ottoman dreams of exploiting the oil of Baku run into financial and political difficulties but eventually succeed, though the economic treaties guaranteeing their German allies preferential purchase largely negates most of the hoped-for economic boom.

Problems with sections of the Arab community in Palestine and the Hejaz flare up frequently, and a war against the Wahabbists of Ibn Saud proves costly and seriously disruptive to rule across the majority of the Arab provinces. It also proves draining as the Ottoman vassal intended to replace Saud is unable to make his rule stick, and Ottoman forces are dragged into an ongoing desert war, which causes increasing resentment within the army

In contrast, the exploitation of the oil of Mosul, Kirkuk etc proves to be a blessing to Mesopotamia and calms internal problems in the Ottoman East, as well as bringing about economic development, the growth of infrastructure and a viable sales policy that begins to rake in substantial revenues for the Ottoman crown, though a large proportion of these end up in military expenditure rather than civil use

Whilst Ottoman rule extends over Asir and theoretically again over Yemen, more careful minds in Istanbul are concerned with overstretch and the danger of what a concerted Arab rising could achieve, especially if it were motivated by external factors, such as any change in the position of Egypt vis-a-vis British domination


Ireland

The birth of the Irish Free State was one of confusion and conflicting aims. Whilst many prepared to fight a civil war, the Labour government of MacDonald declared its commitment to a peaceful solution, so a strange situation developed where rebels on both sides fought against both parties negotiating for separation. On the Irish side, extremists denounced co-operation with MacDonald and demanded all of Ulster, whilst on the British side Unionists denounced the abandonment of the South and demanded a fight against the separatists. A strange civil war was thus fought behind the scenes, in the shadows, but bursting into daylight from time to time with explosive clashes and mainland bombings.

MacDonald's crackdown on UVF leaders hardly endeared him to most of the political elite, but solved the problem in the long run. His use of working class units, mainly veterans of Kitchener's New Army, had the effect of over-riding high-browed sentiment but also raised for many the spectre of a Bolshevist people's army. There was much talk about this, but little reality to it, but it helped add to the alarm and suspicion with which the Labour government was viewed in many circles

Ireland became a self-governing dominion of the British Empire with King George V officially head of state, though he refused to have anything to do with Irish political delegations and let it be known unofficially that he viewed the whole course of events with great displeasure. Britain, nevertheless, retained naval bases in Ireland, and used these as much as it did its homeland bases.

Many on the extreme wing of Irish politics resented this, and made a point of opposing it at every opportunity. By 1929 it remains a hot potato, and one which impacts on the UK's own election


India

India remains an unresolved problem. In defeat, relations are even worse than they are in OTL, and neither Labour nor Liberal administrations throughout the 1920s has been able to properly deal with this. The feeling in many quarters exists that only a Conservative government can properly deal with India and advance things, because every other government is thwarted by entrenched conservative interests which become even more extreme in opposition

The 1929 election is thus viewed with great interest across the sub-continent, but the growth of radical right wing groups on the fringes of British politics causes a lot of unease, and some rather naiive protests in Indian cities, which are hardly likely either to worry the extreme groups or to make them think better of their Indian fellows.


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Pt 10

Filling in the Blanks

Mongolia

Japan adopted a policy of supporting the Bogdkhan's government, subverting communist influence and replacing it with its own. Areas of Mongolia became constant battlegrounds for Mongolian and Japanese forces, against both White remnants and Bolshevik revolutionaries

At the death of the Bogdkhan (c 1924), Japan encouraged the selection of a successor, and in the meantime supported the generals in the role of regents for the child. By such manner, Japan is able to bring Mongolia closer to herself, and to advise, and thus oversee, an overhaul of the armed forces.


China

With Japan acting as a force for Chinese unification, and with the other European powers all decreased influence due to the outcome of the war, China is in a much better state going through the 1920s than OTL

Mongolia and Tibet are lost, but the main area of China is secured as the republican government unifies and pulls the country together.

The restoration of authority is more immediately apparent than any real benefits from this. In terms of rearmament, the army receives the vast majority of funds, whilst the navy makes do with a series of smallscale programmes designed to build a viable coastal defence force of cruisers and destroyers.

The Chinese airforce grows in strength, and numerous squadrons are established across the country. Japanese aircraft designs predominate, and the boost from sales and organisation helps the Japanese economy


The British Dominions

- Newfoundland has sunk into bankruptcy and direct administration has been taken back up by London

- Canada remains closely tied to Britain, with the trans-Atlantic airship service developing into a passenger service and tying the two together more closely than the motherland with any other dominion

- South Africa clashes with MacDonald's Labour administration over its policies in the annexed ex-German South-West Africa. Although this aspect of things is brushed under the carpet by the succeeding Liberal administration, South Africa's insistence on fully integrating the ex-German colony into the Union as a couple of integral states causes rifts with Britain.

Lloyd George's administration is especially worried over the viable separateness of the other British colonies and protectorates in the area (Bechuanaland, Rhodesia, Nyasssaland plus Basutholand and Swaziland) and South African denials are viewed with a great deal of suspicion in London

- Australia's direct acquisition of ex-German colonies has led towards a policy intent on annexation of the rest of the New Guinea, causing great tensions with London. The 1920s sees an increasingly alienation of Australia and Britain, and talk in the Australian parliament of no automatic falling in line behind Britain should there be another war - whilst constitutionally correct, the voicing of this sentiment signifies a greater break with the motherland than other active policies could do.

- New Zealand doesn't see much change from OTL


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Pt 11

Britain - differences to OTL

Labour saw through several reforms in detail
- uiversal suffrage for women on an equal footing for men
- (relatively) peaceful Irish independence
- reform of the House of Lords; not massive but a further derogation of their role
- 'rationalisation' of the armed forces that saw a largescale decommissioning and scrapping in the Royal Navy, and the limitation of future plans to the completion of ones already started

Subsequent to the fall of Labour in 1924, the ensuing Liberal administration did not see anything like the General Strike of the Great Depression emerge

The political Left is undergoing something of a crisis in the later 1920s as the extinction of Bolshevism and the defeat of attempts to form or sustain governments of a revolutionary socialist nature seem to indicate the defeat of the idea. Unions and the political Left remain strong, but without focus, and are thus unable to properly deal with the increasing emergence of radical right wing parties in troubled nations

Economic decline (of a Recession type rather than a nascent Depression) coupled with international tensions creates a number of radical political organisations with a grass roots base that did not exist in OTL

King George V is tired, never recovered from the end of the war and has been actively (albeit in the background and unofficially) opposed to certain measures of his governments. He is considering abdication, and the Prince of Wales is doing nothing to dispel those rumours

Regarding the navy, the Liberal administration undertook no new construction above the size of cruisers but saw to inception a programme of modernisation that seems to be in tune with the mood of the times in other nations

Uncertainty and worry rule, with radical solutions increasingly bandied about as the most 'sensible' or 'logical' and a general feeling that the three main political parties have failed and something new is needed


Behind the scenes

Edward, Prince of Wales has advisors who fall into the category of being supporters of one or other of the radical right wing groups. He also has aides who fall into none but are sympathetic to the idea of a new solution, and see that solution in the person of the king-to-be himself.

Edward (aka David) is growing increasingly interested in the latter idea as the political chaos mounts with the approach of the Spring election of 1929. However he is aware that he must not spook his father, or the cantankerous old fellow will change his plan and not abdicate after all. Edward thus must try to play a quiet game


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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