The Republicans win the Spanish Civil War

The consequences of the Republicans winning depends heavily on exactly how they win...

If the civil authorities react more quickly, it would not only help contain the Nationalist revolt to a smaller portion of the country but I imagine that having this owed to a quicker arming of the workers, and this proving to be a successful move, would have given weight to the left-wing of the PSOE under Francisco Largo Caballero. If Caballero still becomes Prime Minister, which would be likely given his desire and perceived ability to maintain alliances between the PSOE and UGT on one hand with the CNT/FAI on one side and the Stalinists on the other, then he could benefit from a quick victory over the Nationalist rebels immensely. A quicker war could mean no equivalent of the Barcelona May Day Affair and no other scandal forcing him out of power. And, a quicker war would be caused by, in this scenario, the quicker reaction by the authorities and the earlier arming of the popular militias.

What that would mean is that the government, of which Caballero could be heading, could be percieved as more competent and truly as a continuation of the legal Spanish republic and not just lumped in as some rag-tag lefty rebel state; yet at the same time it would also mean at least on the face of it more chaos as the worker militias are armed and wreaking havoc all over the country, and don't want to submit to government authority.

But this could help Caballero because it would likely be strengthening the CNT-FAI as much as the PCE, giving him the time post-civil-war to build up government forces as they fight it out with each other; and it would also mean that the UGT, which he used to head and could be assumed to be a source of left-faction Socialist party members, could have been armed and taken to the streets in more numbers than in real life as well.

So by the time the PCE have, with their previously mentioned organization and Soviet arms, wiped out the anarchists in the post-war bloodbath, there could be a government-backed UGT militia and an army that has had some time to breath as well, and they could perhaps defeat or force into negotiations the PCE militia; especially since those who would otherwise be drawn to the Communist Party's program would find a much similar program in a post-war Caballero government; given that he saw himself as the Spanish Lenin and wanted to create the Iberian Soviet Republic.

Along the lines of a earlier non-Comintern communist state, I think the ISR would be a fascinating possibility to explore.

Of course after two civil wars they would be incredibly weak, but as a non-member of the Comintern it is not entirely inconceivable that the ISR could buy time from the Germans long enough to secure an Allied presence; which the non-Stalinist ISR might accept (Allied troops on their soil).
 
I just saw "The Republicans win..." and assumed it had something to do with an American election. Then I read Spanish Civil War and for a split second I went "what the? Like the Fascists, the Socialists and the anarchists does to war and Sarah Palin comes out as the victor?" and then, of course, I realized "oh right, the other side was called the Republicans..." :p
 
I wonder if BOTH sides could 'win', or a stalemate.

Either the country is divided for a longer while (but maybe peacefull.. mostly)...
OR...
One side win, but it's pyrrhic or there is an agreement, so 'moderates' (more pragmatic, rational heads..) of both sides can join and so, 'win'.
 
I really Like Dr Strangelove's TL re: Anarchist victory in SCW

I agree with you, the quicker arming of the PSOE militia would have had good effects in preventing quite as much of Franco seizing good agricultural land out west in Burgos, Extremadura (thereby cutting him off from any help from Salazar in Portugal) and areas of staunch Republican support in Andalusia.

What modern Republican-sympathizing folks don't understand is how quick those militias would've gotten pwned by the Moroccan legion and other Nationalist forces. The Falange weren't super-soldiers, but they were a huge chunk of the Spanish Army's professional officers and NCO's.
Add in the inaction by the Guardia Civil, who could've wrapped up the plotters in an afternoon and made it all a damp squib as they had a couple of times before.

You want a POD, have the GC actively monitoring Army communications, ready to snatch up Mola, and the gang either before they can invite Franco to join the party or have his acceptance as proof positive there needs to be a culling of the senior Army leadership as a stark warning to stay out of politics.

There was a lot of hesitancy on the Republican politicians' parts b/c the vote for the 1934 government was a razor-thin margin and certainly didn't want to antagonize the Army.

Even as a secularist, the spectacularly dumb thing that pissed everyone vaguely right of La Pasionaria off was the anticlerical campaign.
It gave a huge proportion of folks in and out of Spain bad vibes to see the Church, its properties and clergy abused and thus providing convenient martyrs for conservatives worried about their own property rights and privileges.
In essence I'm saying the further left the Republicans go, the less international support they get outside the USSR.
Much as I sympathize with the anarchists and POUM, your average voter in the West thought PSOE was as radical as it needed to get.
Trouble was, it wasn't evolutionary reforms, but a revolution going on, and far too many on the Spanish right and left, wanted utopia now and weren't settling for ANYTHING less.

Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy were perfectly willing to send Franco guns and troops and planes galore. The Republic got slapped with an arms and oil embargo slanted against them where the best they could get was rifles from Mexico and whatever pittance the French let leak across the Pyrenees until the Soviets started sending serious arms, and even that was too little too late in the 1938 time frame.
Add in the Soviet tactical inflexibility, and the Republican Army got a lot better disciplined but doomed to failure in the endgame.

IF the Brits and other LON navies enforcing Non-Intervention were serious and neutral, they'd have impounded the ships sending troops, guns, and materiel to the Nationalists as well as Republicans. As we've banged on ad nauseam, most international agreements in the 1930's weren't worth the paper they were printed on b/c they weren't enforced.

For the Republic to win the SCW- it needs to be as social democratic as possible, get more than nominal French, British, and American support,
and emphasize the cooperative nature of Syndicalism vs Anarchism.

The Communists were right in that the Republican Army needed to be an army with centralized command, communications, logistics, training, etc, not just a gaggle of militias to defeat the Nationalists. HOWEVER, they should emphasize everyone is a volunteer and sworn to a compact to defend the Republic, regardless of party affiliation.
 
64 posts and no one brought it up?

Franco goes down, Spain remains neutral until late September 1944. Pressure from the Allies will force the Spaniards to DoW the Axis no later than this. When its perfectly safe for them to do so, ala as Turkey did in February 1945. Allowing all those Spanish ports to be opened for Allied use. Most likely no combat service in the war. But I am tickled at the thought of the Spanish Blue Division (Or its equivalent) fighting trapped, side-by-side, with the 101st Airborne in Bastogne!:cool:

The important factor here is that Spain enters NATO at its inception, with no dark history of Fascism behind her, only being a member of the Western Allies in WWII. Earlier entry into the EU?
 
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To try and cut the British out of the Mediterranean. It would have been huge if he could have captured Gibraltar.

Could would be the operative word here.

We're operating under the assumption that on the best of days for the Axis powers that the Spanish are neutral rather than directly or indirectly pro-Allies.

The Axis couldn't just steamroll their way into the Med historically, a PoD that results in the most definitively anti-Nazi Republican faction winning the Spanish Civil War (whether they toe Uncle Joe's line or someone else's is another debate entirely) creates far more problems for any ideas of Nazi conquest in the Mediterranean than it solves. It really isn't all that appealing.

Fight the British Navy at sea when they'll accept pretty much 99.9% casualties to keep the Mediterranean open or try and push onto land through the meatgrinder of the Pyrenees Mountains with the French Resistance bombing every available supply depot and generally causing a mess of trouble. It's an operation the Germans are virtually guaranteed to lose, even if they defy all odds (because God knows the fall of France and the invasion of Poland were both like that) and make strong advances into Spain they're just fighting in tough land with ravaged infrastructure surrounded by guerrillas who hate them with the British right across the pond to pour supplies and troops to Spain.

On a really, really bad day this kind of thing would make Salazar get all antsy about maintaining Portuguese neutrality and prompt him to return to the Anglo-Portuguese alliance and join the Allies, opening up the Azores for British bombers.
 

Cook

Banned
Pressure from the Allies will force the Spaniards to DoW the Axis no later than this. When its perfectly safe for them to do so, ala as Turkey did in February 1945. Allowing all those Spanish ports to be opened for Allied use.
That wouldn’t actually have been useful; anything landed in Spainish ports would have to go via the notoriously bad Spanish rail system (it was bad even during the republican days, not just a product of Franco) and then de-trained and re-entrained at the French border, Spain’s rail network being a different gauge to France’s.

This also supposes Spain’s political situation remains static, like a fly in amber, for eight years. That would be unlikely to say the least, given how polarised politics had become in the country.

The incompatibility of the rail system is something people considering German invasion scenarios need to remember too.
 
The consequences of the Republicans winning depends heavily on exactly how they win.

For the Republicans to win requires two key things. The first is that it requires prompt and decisive action by local authorities within the first forty-eight hours of the beginning of the rebellion. Where civil authorities reacted swiftly and armed the militias, the rebellion either collapsed before it got going or was swiftly crushed. Where the civil authorities hesitated or acted indecisively, the Nationalists seized control. The resultant shape of the Nationalist held territory by the end of July 1936 reflected this almost entirely random process.

The second thing required for a Republican win is preventing the transport of the Army of Africa across the Straits of Gibraltar. The Army of Africa (AoA) represented the only reasonably well organised, trained and equipped force in Spain on either side. Unless they are prevented from landing in Spain a swift Nationalist defeat cannot be achieved, and a prolonged war favours the Nationalists.

Since the rebellion almost completely failed in the Spanish navy there is a real possibility of preventing the AoA from reaching Spain. The rebellion in the fleet had been a critical part of Franco’s plan and its failure necessitated a rapid rethink and the direct intervention of the Italians and Germans. Had Rome and Berlin been more cautious at this point the rebellion would have collapsed; the number of troops transported by Nationalist Breguets and Nieuports before the arrival of Italian Savoias and German Junkers was negligible.

On 19 July the Spanish government ordered all available warships to steam to the Straits to prevent the AoA from crossing. They were unsuccessful because the convoy of Nationalist troop transports was escorted by the German pocket Battleships Deuschland and Admiral Scheer. These two ships were, compared to the Spanish fleet, formidable. But there was only the two of them; their successful screening of the troop transports against a numerically superior Republican squadron would have been extremely difficult. This convoy included all of the heavy weapons used by the Nationalists in the first months of the war, so was absolutely critical. Had the Republicans chosen to attack the transports from multiple directions, and focused on the transports, not on the German warships, a great deal could have been achieved. The international repercussions of German warships opening fire on Spanish ships would have also been enormous.

If the rebellion was supressed, the Popular Front government and a democratic Spain is still extremely unlikely to survive. The provinces would have been in the hands of the various militias aligned with the main left wing political parties, or with the Basque and Catalonian provincial regimes; a struggle for power between the various left-wing parties, and between them and the Basques and Catalonians would be inevitable. Even during the Civil War, the threat of defeat and physical extermination by Franco’s forces wasn’t sufficient to prevent in-fighting between the Communists, Marxists and Anarchists; with the Carlists and Fascists defeated, fighting between the left wing elements would have been pretty much inevitable.

Even though Stalin had ordered the Comintern not to take a major role in the Popular Front government and the successive Republican governments, a Communist takeover is the most likely result of a civil war between them, the Marxists, the Anarchists and the regional regimes. Despite Stalin’s orders, the Spanish Communists were a bit too keen for glory and power to put off seizing control in Spain for the greater good internationally. As it was they disregarded the caution of the Comintern and effectively gained control of much of the Republican zone. Stalin was not acting out of altruism by the way; he didn’t want the British government to be alarmed at the possibility of the spread of international communism just when he was trying to forge an alliance with them against Hitler’s Germany.

A Communist takeover in Spain, even in a nominal coalition with other parties would still result in a massive bloodbath similar to that unleashed by Franco’s victorious forces. Not only would there be the (largely fictitious in 1936, it grew later) spectre of the Falangists to quite literally do away with, as well as the Carlists and Monarchists, but there are the provincial separatists and Marxists and Anarchists as well. The NKVD orchestrated purge in the rear areas of the Republican zone during the Civil War would have paled in comparison to what would have been unleashed by a successful Communist takeover.

Depending on when the Communists successfully took over significantly effects events, not only in Spain but also in during the European Crises of 1938 and ’39. An early victory would make the British establishment and the French Right even more paranoid of the spread of international Communism, a later victory just distracts from Hitler’s actions in central Europe. An early victory also deprives the Luftwaffe of a great deal of experience; experience that led to significant changes in German air tactics. A long drawn out and bitterly fought civil war in Spain between the various left wing parties could play completely into Hitler’s hands; distracting attention from his actions and hardening world opinion (i.e. British, French and American opinion) against Stalin.

By 1939 a Spanish Socialist Republic would most likely have a mutual defence pact with the Soviet Union. Even if they didn’t, Russia would still be the most likely source of their armaments. If they have a defence pact with Stalin, this would probably prevent a German invasion in the short term, but would almost guarantee a German invasion co-incident with the invasion of the Soviet Union.

A Spanish army operating in orthodox Soviet doctrine dominated by Soviet Commissars and equipped with old soviet equipment and with its airspace defended by I-15 and I-16s wouldn’t have presented much of an obstacle to the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe. After several years of purges the Spanish people would probably have welcomed the Germans as liberators, at least initially, just as the Ukrainians and Baltic peoples did.

Once occupied, a guerrilla war would be the likely result, just as in the Balkans. And, just as in the Balkans, the Germans would have had just as many willing supporters as opponents, at least until the allies were able to provide effective logistical support and assistance. Even then the partisans are unlikely to affect any significant results until a major allied landing could take place.

Those landings would presumably take place on or after November 1942 instead of Operation Torch. Given the much broader, less mountainous terrain of Spain compared to Italy, a campaign in the Iberian Peninsula would probably significantly favour the allies.

In such a situation, the bogey man of Spanish Bolshevism could push Vichy France even further into German arms than in OTL, resulting in Vichy joining in a German invasion of Spain.
 
By 1939 a Spanish Socialist Republic would most likely have a mutual defence pact with the Soviet Union. Even if they didn’t said:
Cook, you just wrote a fine piece of text. I agree with you but I see an opening of possibilities in a pro-soviet spansish republic. Come 1941, the germans would find themselves in a dilemma. If they attack Spain first, the soviets may not declar war against Germany, but sure they would be expecting an attack, they would not be caught unprepared as in OTL. And if the Germans do not attack Spain, can they leave a soviet (and then british) ally just in they poorly guarded rear? You talk about a simultaneous invasion, but in OTL the germans were already using all their resources for Barbarrosa.
 

Lolilover

Banned
Following an initial shipment of arms and supplies to the Spanish government, Blum cancelled further shipments because his senior military commanders warned of a potential rebellion in the French military if they continued.[/FONT]
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Tell me more. Would this be a French version of the Spanish Civil War?
 
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