The Rebirth of the Ottoman Empire

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

I just thought it would be more practical and the padishahs did consider themselves caliphate of the muslime world but the persian never realy cared enough to listen . so it will probably be the same thing know.

And by the way Onkel love the new update the ottomans have gone very agressive i like it. The serious headways they have made and the performance they have shown will get them good share in the peace table if only some one can make a map so we can get an idea of what territories are going to be annexed by the ottos.

And Abdul can they get to Astrakhan in this TL .Generaly would the gains ive writen be possible in this TL and could you give us an idea of maximum gains?

Now I'm starting to be afraid you're not going to like my timeline. My Ottomans are much less aggressive than Onkel Willie's.

 

[Don Grey]

Now I'm starting to be afraid you're not going to like my timeline. My Ottomans are much less aggressive than Onkel Willie's.

Well thats because i missed it.I wana see a TL were ottomans kick ass and take names.Thats because ive been watching the site for a while and ive noticed that if an aboriginal in australia farts the greeks half of turkey and the armenians the other half and the brits conquers the world and form the imperial federation or something.

But when it comes to the ottomans everyone becomes pragmatic.And it all depends and what your TL can offer to make up for this lack of expantion and agressiveness.Plus ive been reading about this TL for about a year now and i havent even seen a sneak pick at it.Im young and i dont even think im even going to see but i will tell my kids about it when i have them and i hope that they will be able to read this famous TL. because it doesnt look like its coming anytime soon.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Well thats because i missed it.I wana see a TL were ottomans kick ass and take names.Thats because ive been watching the site for a while and ive noticed that if an aboriginal in australia farts the greeks half of turkey and the armenians the other half and the brits conquers the world and form the imperial federation or something.

But when it comes to the ottomans everyone becomes pragmatic.And it all depends and what your TL can offer to make up for this lack of expantion and agressiveness.Plus ive been reading about this TL for about a year now and i havent even seen a sneak pick at it.Im young and i dont even think im even going to see but i will tell my kids about it when i have them and i hope that they will be able to read this famous TL. because it doesnt look like its coming anytime soon.

I'm doing it in fictionalized form, so it takes a long time to write. Also, if you don't like Abdulhamid II, you're really not going to like the TL. Although Yusuf Izzeddin is a more central character.

Even with a more successful empire, I have to be realistic about what can be achieved. There are a lot of problems that aren't going to magically go away.

Anyway, most of the early years focus on Africa & Arabia. In the 20th c there's more focus on Europe and Asia.

 

[MerryPrankster]

If it wasn't a problem in the OTL empire, I don't see why it would be a big issue here.

The "here" in question is the possible Ottoman annexation of all of Persia, not just having Shi'ite minorities in certain places.

Also, how many Ottoman Shi'ites were Twelvers versus, say, Alevi?

 

[MerryPrankster]

I'm doing it in fictionalized form, so it takes a long time to write. Also, if you don't like Abdulhamid II, you're really not going to like the TL. Although Yusuf Izzeddin is a more central character.

Even with a more successful empire, I have to be realistic about what can be achieved. There are a lot of problems that aren't going to magically go away.

Anyway, most of the early years focus on Africa & Arabia. In the 20th c there's more focus on Europe and Asia.

If you're doing it in a fictionalized form, you might want to post it in the Writer's Forum.

That way, you can turn it into a book without any quibbles about it having been posted online.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

I'll be sure to incorporate some of these ideas into the TL.

EDIT: I made several small changes in the last update in the paragraph on Africa!

Here's a redone map of 1911, incorperating OW's corrections:

OW, Arkhangelsk, I'm afraid that Italians will not going to have their nice Horn Africa colony. You forget that Pasha said about Egyptian Empire, that it also included all of African Red Sea coast, and it was only abandoned by Egyptians due to British pressure. No such thing happened in TTL, so all of Eritrea, Djibouti and even some of Somaliland would have already in Ottoman hands before the Great War. Only the rest of Somalia are available to Italy. While they will likely going to attempt to conquer Ethiopia from there, it will be quite harder compared to doing it from Eritrea, which is much closer to Ethiopian center of power, and thus pretty doubtful that they will be successful in that. I'm not sure Ottomans will like an Italian Ethiopia, too....
Also, I forgot one thing, after gaining Sudan, it would actually be inevitable that the Ottomans will head west to check French colonial expansion. More over, Bornu at the late 19th century placed themselves under Ottoman formal vassalage, much like what Aceh did. It was the time of Pan-Islamism being so in, so ITTL Ottomans, which is stronger compared to OTL, will going to embark on adventures of saving Islamic states here and there from European colonialism.

They don't have to be successful in liberating all of them though, for the time being at least. However, at minimal Ottoman Sudan will be a tad thicker compared to OTL British one, even if they won't manage to liberate Lake Chad from French onslaught. Such failure can lead to an internal political reshuffle in the empire though, though it doesn't seem to be enough to overthrow the Sultan, but I'm not sure myself. It's to be noted that the failure in responding Aceh's plea for help against the Dutch IOTL was one of the more important reasons why Abdul Aziz got deposed and replaced by Abdul Hamid II. And I presume OW, that you won't going to save Aceh from Dutch conquest ITTL....


Also, Zanzibar should have both Tanganyika and Kenya, and actually a bit more of southern Somalia, and some of the eastern Congo, too, should be under Zanzibar sovereignty and thus British influence. Not sure about Uganda and Katanga, but both of them are perfectly possible to becoming Zanzibari as well, at least formally until railroads are established there...

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

The "here" in question is the possible Ottoman annexation of all of Persia, not just having Shi'ite minorities in certain places.

Also, how many Ottoman Shi'ites were Twelvers versus, say, Alevi?

All varieties of Shiite. The problem annexing Persia is not religious, it's military, strategic, and cultural.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

OW, Arkhangelsk, I'm afraid that Italians will not going to have their nice Horn Africa colony. You forget that Pasha said about Egyptian Empire, that it also included all of African Red Sea coast, and it was only abandoned by Egyptians due to British pressure. No such thing happened in TTL, so all of Eritrea, Djibouti and even some of Somaliland would have already in Ottoman hands before the Great War. Only the rest of Somalia are available to Italy. While they will likely going to attempt to conquer Ethiopia from there, it will be quite harder compared to doing it from Eritrea, which is much closer to Ethiopian center of power, and thus pretty doubtful that they will be successful in that. I'm not sure Ottomans will like an Italian Ethiopia, too....
Also, I forgot one thing, after gaining Sudan, it would actually be inevitable that the Ottomans will head west to check French colonial expansion. More over, Bornu at the late 19th century placed themselves under Ottoman formal vassalage, much like what Aceh did. It was the time of Pan-Islamism being so in, so ITTL Ottomans, which is stronger compared to OTL, will going to embark on adventures of saving Islamic states here and there from European colonialism.

They don't have to be successful in liberating all of them though, for the time being at least. However, at minimal Ottoman Sudan will be a tad thicker compared to OTL British one, even if they won't manage to liberate Lake Chad from French onslaught.


Also, Zanzibar should have both Tanganyika and Kenya, and actually a bit more of southern Somalia, and some of the eastern Congo, too, should be under Zanzibar sovereignty and thus British influence. Not sure about Uganda and Katanga, but both of them are likely to become Zanzibari as well, at least formally until railroads are established there...

Well, he doesn't have to do everything like I would do it, otherwise there's no point to having 2 different TLs. I think the Egyptian Empire has to be addressed, though - it won't just go away.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

Well, he doesn't have to do everything like I would do it, otherwise there's no point to having 2 different TLs. I think the Egyptian Empire has to be addressed, though - it won't just go away.

Oh, certainly !! But some are just inevitable, like absorption of Egyptian Empire and Zanzibar's integrity. Pretty sure that the size of your TL's Ottoman Africa and Zanzibar Sultanate and Sokoto survival are not inevitable though.

By the way Pasha, will the failure to save Bornu from the French pose as much danger for the reigning Ottoman regime as it did with what Abdul Aziz got with the failure on Aceh issue ?

And also, what do you think will Abdul Hamid II get ITTL if he will also fail to save Aceh like his predecessor ? Though it doesn't seem that Onkie Willie's Ottoman Empire being a liberal democracy though(is this also possible ?)

 

[Equinox]

Well thats because i missed it.I wana see a TL were ottomans kick ass and take names.Thats because ive been watching the site for a while and ive noticed that if an aboriginal in australia farts the greeks half of turkey and the armenians the other half and the brits conquers the world and form the imperial federation or something.

But when it comes to the ottomans everyone becomes pragmatic.And it all depends and what your TL can offer to make up for this lack of expantion and agressiveness.Plus ive been reading about this TL for about a year now and i havent even seen a sneak pick at it.Im young and i dont even think im even going to see but i will tell my kids about it when i have them and i hope that they will be able to read this famous TL. because it doesnt look like its coming anytime soon.

I'm doing it in fictionalized form, so it takes a long time to write. Also, if you don't like Abdulhamid II, you're really not going to like the TL. Although Yusuf Izzeddin is a more central character.

Even with a more successful empire, I have to be realistic about what can be achieved. There are a lot of problems that aren't going to magically go away.

Anyway, most of the early years focus on Africa & Arabia. In the 20th c there's more focus on Europe and Asia.

I too have been reading that thread where it just seems like all speculation and not even a TL, and I followed your link but i couldn't find the timeline. Could you perhaps help me in finding it i would like to read it.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

I too have been reading that thread where it just seems like all speculation and not even a TL, and I followed your link but i couldn't find the timeline. Could you perhaps help me in finding it i would like to read it.

I haven't posted any of it yet. It's coming. Soon... sooooooon.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Oh, certainly !! But some are just inevitable, like absorption of Egyptian Empire and Zanzibar's integrity. Pretty sure that the size of your TL's Ottoman Africa and Zanzibar Sultanate and Sokoto survival are not inevitable though.

By the way Pasha, will the failure to save Bornu from the French pose as much danger for the reigning Ottoman regime as it did with what Abdul Aziz got with the failure on Aceh issue ?

And also, what do you think will Abdul Hamid II get ITTL if he will also fail to save Aceh like his predecessor ? Though it doesn't seem that Onkie Willie's Ottoman Empire being a liberal democracy though(is this also possible ?)

I think addressing Egypt's empire is necessary, but Zanzibar surviving is not inevitable. It's not a very important factor to London, and it would easily be discarded if there was sufficient reason. If it can last for a couple more decades it's survival gets pretty likely.

There is always some risk if Muslim lands are taken after they've appealed to the Sultan, but that didn't really happen that often. Aceh was a little different, both because the Dutch were perceived as particularly hostile to Islam, and because of the historical stature of Aceh and its relations with the Ottomans. Bornu is more obscure, so I think it's less of an issue.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

I think addressing Egypt's empire is necessary, but Zanzibar surviving is not inevitable. It's not a very important factor to London, and it would easily be discarded if there was sufficient reason. If it can last for a couple more decades it's survival gets pretty likely.

Okay, I only hear that now.... All this time I thought Zanzibar's survival will be inevitable with an Ottoman Egypt, but then again without all the trouble of occupying Egypt, what would be a sufficient reason for the British to abandon Zanzibar ?

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Almost perfect . Only Namibia is British ITTL, but I think our imaginative powers are good enough to pretend its pink .

Haha my bad, seems I never get it right!

Excellent update Onkel Willie, when you redraw Europe in your next update(s) I'll have the map at the ready

 

[Ridwan Asher]

Haha my bad, seems I never get it right!

Excellent update Onkel Willie, when you redraw Europe in your next update(s) I'll have the map at the ready

Please don't forget the Egypt problem, though you can just dismiss all my misunderstandings about Zanzibar, Tanzania....


EDIT : After reading this thread, I'm getting more and more confused about Zanzibar.... *_*

 

[Don Grey]

I'm doing it in fictionalized form, so it takes a long time to write. Also, if you don't like Abdulhamid II, you're really not going to like the TL. Although Yusuf Izzeddin is a more central character.

Even with a more successful empire, I have to be realistic about what can be achieved. There are a lot of problems that aren't going to magically go away.

Anyway, most of the early years focus on Africa & Arabia. In the 20th c there's more focus on Europe and Asia.

Im actualy a big fan of Abdulhamid II.When are we going to get a sneak peak or atleast the first couple pages of your TL?

 

[Onkel Willie]

Update time. Enjoy .

Chapter IV: Peace, the Treaty of San Stefano and the New Caliphate, 1914 – 1925.​

The war had ended after two years of fighting, four million deaths and the Russian giant sinking into chaos. A venue had to be decided upon for the peace negotiations and especially the Russians insisted on getting this over with as quickly as possible due to their internal unrest and chaos. The Russians by now were withdrawing their armies from the frontlines fully in order to squash the revolts, riots, looting and mutiny that had started in certain army units and major cities which were now spreading to the countryside. The Ukraine experienced a major peasant revolt which the Russian army and Cossacks squashed all too happily now that they had peace. With the return of Russian troops, some semblance of order was restored, but unrest and agitation against the Tsarist regime continued to simmer. Both Germany and Austria-Hungary had come to respect their Ottoman allies in the war and so the town of San Stefano close to Constantinople was chosen by the victorious Central Powers. Emperor Wilhelm II, Emperor Franz Josef, Sultan Mehmet V, King Gustav V of Sweden-Norway, King Umberto I of Italy and Tsar Michael II along with their own diplomats, foreign ministers and prime ministers gathered in San Stefano as well as the prime ministers of Britain and France and the French president. This would be the largest diplomatic conference since the Vienna Conference of 1814-’15 and the comparison was often made in the press of all countries no matter what side they had been on during the war as it had been a long time that so many crowned heads and world leaders had gathered in one place. Negotiations between the great powers would last from March to July 1914 in the town of San Stefano where history was written.

Firstly, European issues were to be dealt with which were considered the most important and would change the balance of power. France had to swallow another humiliating peace and was forced to cede the Briey-Longwy region as well as the town of Verdun to Germany, and a 20 billion German mark war reparation was demanded by the Germans. Furthermore, the French army was limited to 225.000 men and the navy to a tonnage of 175.000 tonnes. Germany allowed Italy to annex Nice, Savoy and Corsica to complete France’s humbling to middle power status. The French had no choice in this matter and accepted Germany’s denigrating peace conditions which earned the German Empire the ire of the French people. Italy, as agreed upon, received Trento and Gorizia-Gradisca from Austria-Hungary in return for a financial compensation while ridding Austria-Hungary of a troublesome minority. In the east, the Kingdom of Poland as established in Congress Poland by German and Austro-Hungarian forces was recognised by the Entente powers. The regency council elected Habsburg Archduke Karl Stephan as King Karol I of Poland and he received recognition internationally through the San Stefano peace conference. The Baltic states were also set up as German puppet states and were tied in personal union to Germany since Wilhelm II was made the monarch of each and every one of them and ruled through the local clique of Baltic Germans which gave him the titles of King of Livonia, Archduke of Courland and King of Lithuania. The Swedes were allowed to annex Finland and they proclaimed the Federal Kingdom of Scandinavia, thereby re-establishing themselves in the Baltic Sea and ejecting Russia as an influential power there. The Ottomans annexed the Crimean Peninsula, Georgia, Abkhazia, Armenia and Azerbaijan from the Russian Empire and a 30 billion German mark war reparation was imposed on the Russians who were forced to pay for the damages they had caused to Germany, Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire which completed the humiliation of Russia which had been thrown off of its great power pedestal. As for the smaller powers, the Netherlands were allowed to annex Flanders as a compensation for hardship during the war due to the British blockade. Germany annexed Luxembourg and the Belgian province of Liège and the remaining Walloon rump state was buffed up with the French province of Nord-pas-de-Calais which ensured it had an access to the sea. The Ottomans annexed Greece which they set up as an autonomous principality under Savoy prince Emanuele Filiberto, son of former King Amadeo of Spain. Lastly, Britain found out that a complete white peace was rather unrealistic by now, especially with Central Powers control of much of the eastern Mediterranean. Italy consequently annexed Malta.

The next and last major issue was the territorial redistribution of Africa, Asia and the Middle East. British colonies were mostly off limits except for those occupied by Central Powers and those cases were few. British Somaliland was annexed by Italy as well as French Somaliland. The French further lost Ubangi-Shari, Morocco, Benin and Ivory Coast to Germany, Algeria to Italy and Chad to the Ottoman Empire. The Germans also “bought” Angola from the Portuguese who were officially belligerent after interning German merchant ships on British request although they had not fought. In the Middle East the Ottomans annexed the entire Arab peninsula and brought it and the holy sites of Islam under their control with Mehmet V openly declaring a caliphate over all of Islam. The Ottomans further annexed Persian Azerbaijan, Persian Kurdistan, the province of Khuzestan and the Persian Caspian Sea coastline, further increasing their size. Mohammad Ali Shah was the autocratic ruler who had rejected the constitution and had since continued his oppressive, dictatorial rule with Anglo-Russian support. He was hated by everyone and not by any one group particularly. He was seen as a puppet of Russia and Britain who were despised almost as much as him. The Ottomans on the other hand were seen as liberators and Ottoman Islam had always been known for its liberalism so religious conflict was out. The Ottomans had begun a hearts and minds campaign, extending education to children, providing aid for the old and sickly and future plans for improving Persian infrastructure and economy. The hearts and minds campaign not to mention relatively liberal Ottoman rule were welcomed although the Ottomans couldn’t annex all of Persia due to its size and also political and cultural differences as well as the fear for strategic overextension. Instead a puppet Shah was installed who ushered in reforms toward a more constitutional, democratic and western oriented progressive regime with Ottoman assistance. And so Persia became a satellite state in orbit around the Ottoman Empire, a relation further strengthened by a military alliance and customs union, with the long term goal being the incorporation of Persia into the Ottoman Empire. And so the Ottoman Empire’s enemy of old was no more. The Ottomans also took the time to finally squash Egypt which, despite the “pacification” of the 1880s and 90s and the Sultan’s authority of caliph, was still restive somewhat. Japan, in the meantime, purchased Germany’s Pacific islands and Shandong province. With this the Treaty of San Stefano was concluded and it been a confirmation of the Ottoman Empire’s renewed ascension to great power status. It was also a major blow for France, Russia and, to a lesser extent, Britain.

The end result of the war and the Treaty of San Stefano was a reshaped European order which was dominated by the Central Powers and a reshaped Muslim world dominated by the Ottoman caliphs who had rearmed their empire with a strong set of teeth to defend their claim to authority over all of Islam. They now were the dominant power in the Middle East and also lorded over a vast swath of land in northeast Africa. The Ottoman Empire was now truly a vast empire and the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed V and Mehmed VI were now secretly aspiring to do what Suleiman the Magnificent had done during his reign. If one included the sphere of influence in Persia then the Ottoman Empire stretched from Greece all the way to British India, dominating the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf. The Ottomans would receive another boost in economic power with the discovery of oil. Major oil supplies were first discovered in Iraq in 1916 and were thoroughly developed and exploited by the Ottoman rulers and these supplies would prove to be even more extensive than initially believed. This was the start of increased interest in the Middle East by the Sublime Porte and so the new University of Constantinople with a new petrochemical faculty sent out teams of geologists to discover oil. Oil was indeed found in 1919 in Kuwait and in 1923 in Arabia. The Ottoman Empire in one decade or so went from economically dependent on Germany to the largest producer of petroleum and other oil products in the world. It also became energy independent in this way and used the oil revenue to modernize. The Ottoman Empire discovered more oil in the late 1920s in Egypt and the Trucial states. Drilling technology didn’t allow for the discovery of Libyan oil which would have to wait until the 1950s. Nonetheless, the Ottoman Empire was now the largest producer of petroleum in the world. The oil revenue was used to extensively modernize the Empire’s infrastructure.

New roads and railroads were extended to all corners of the Empire, branching off from major existing railroad lines, connecting all major cities and speeding up travel and communications, more so with the introduction of a nationwide telex network after Germany had done so first. A dam was also built in Egypt on the Nile, the largest in the world at the time, and it provided much of Egypt with hydroelectric power. Other major cities were given electricity too such as Constantinople, Ankara, Tripoli, Tunis, Damascus and Baghdad. Economic growth was vigorous during the 1920s and early 30s and besides massive infrastructural projects, a national education system was also set up for all to use and a progressive set of labour laws were introduced as well as free healthcare, all funded by oil and all of these reforms increased the standard of living throughout the Ottoman Empire. Industrialization took place and the Ottoman came to be a dominant world power in its own right. The vast changes also encouraged democratization with the strengthening of the powers of a bicameral parliament, a new democratic constitution and male suffrage for all male subjects of the Empire from the age of 21. Parliament was elected by voters through a system of proportional representation while the Imperial Senate was composed of representatives sent by the various provinces of the Empire. These major reforms, industrialization and modernization were also extended to Persia which greatly increased the popularity of the puppet Shah installed by Constantinople and strengthened friendly Persian feelings for their Ottoman overlords.

This went hand in hand with military reforms and modernization. A two year mandatory military service for all men aged 18 was introduced which applied to all of the Empire’s male subjects, regardless of religion or race. The Ottomans expanded their navy with new battleships, battlecruisers and cruisers as well as submarines. New naval bases were established on the southern end of the Arab peninsula and the Ottoman navy was extended basing rights by Persia so the Ottomans could extend their influence into the Indian Ocean. The Ottoman navy’s main competition, the Russian navy, was rotting in port as Russia was in a deep economic crisis. The Ottoman navy therefore came to dominate the Black Sea, the eastern Mediterranean Sea, the Persian Gulf, the Red Sea and extended its reach into the Indian Ocean. The army, using the new infrastructure, could respond quickly and was armed with modern machine guns, rifles, mortars, artillery and an air arm with aircraft and rigid airships. Militarily, no power could compete with the Ottomans on their home turf and their Middle Eastern sphere of influence anymore. These reforms under Mehmed V and Mehmed VI would be continued by the now under aged Sultan Mehmed VII. His army started to sell modern weaponry and give training to Islamic insurgents in British India, fuelling insurgencies against British rule there which sharpened post-war tensions. This army seemed to be getting its first baptism of fire not against Britain or Russia, but against an ally although in the end this crisis winded down.

After the death of Franz Josef, who was greatly missed by Emperor Wilhelm II and Sultan Mehmed V, in 1916, reform minded Archduke Franz Ferdinand had ascended the throne and he wanted to transform the Austro-Hungarian Empire into a more federal state with greater autonomy for the various ethnicities within the empire, starting with the Czechs. The Hungarians fiercely opposed anything like this since it would diminish their power and influence as co-rulers within the Empire which they would then have to share with the Czechs. Some Germans also feared that their brethren in the Sudetenland would have to chafe under the rule of the despised Czechs. Needless to say, this caused conflict since Hungary refused to weaken its status as co-ruler by sharing. Budapest threatened secession and everyone knew it would lead to civil war if they did. Emperor Franz Ferdinand, however, pressed on which brought tensions to the boiling point within the Habsburg domains. Austria-Hungary’s allies, however, came to her aid. Both Germany and the Ottomans declared that they would intervene to squash the Hungarians should they try to secede. Neither had any interests in seeing their ally collapse into a civil war which would consume central Europe and set fire to the northern Balkans where Habsburg princes ruled the autonomous principalities of Serbia, Romania and Montenegro. The Hungarians succumbed to German and Ottoman pressure after both had announced partial mobilizations and accepted reforms in 1923 after a yearlong political paralysis. They decided that co-ruler status in the Empire was better than welcoming the janissaries back in. Bohemia and Moravia were set up as the Kingdom of Bohemia which did not include Austrian Silesia and the Sudetenland. These remained with the Austrian Empire since they were populated by Germans. The new country was known as the Triple Monarchy or Austro-Hungarian-Czech Empire which was then reformed into the Quadruple Monarchy when Vienna extended co-ruler status to Galicia which created a stable state since the Austrians, Hungarians, Czechs and Poles together constituted nearly 70% of the population. Henceforth, the Empire was known as the Federal Empire of Greater Austria.

The dominance of the Central Powers was unbelievable and this was expressed by increasing German naval power. The German navy was closing in on its British counterpart with capital warships, including aircraft carriers, and the Italian, Austrian and Ottoman navies now ruled the Mediterranean Sea from which the British were now ejected. The Mediterranean was now a lake of the Central Powers. The British Empire was still large although it had lost face in 1914 and its power relative to the Central Powers was waning. The result was increased paranoia, more so with Germany stationing naval assets on the Channel in the Walloon ports of Calais and Boulogne. Germany used its economic sphere in Poland and the Baltic states and its dominant position on the Baltic Sea as a means and reason to maintain a massive navy with ever increasing numbers of bigger ships. Their latest battleship class had 42 cm guns and weighed in at 50.000 tonnes. The situation was worsened because the British had to compete with an increasingly strong Imperial Japanese Navy. Japanese and British interests in Asia were colliding and the former was growing closer to Germany, more so with rising anti-Japanese sentiments in Russia.

France and Russia had not shared in the spoils of war due to their defeat. They had slipped into an economic crisis of unseen scale with millions of unemployed, skyrocketing hyperinflation, stagnation, poverty and inability to keep up the welfare state. When France couldn’t pay war indemnities anymore in 1922 the Germans occupied everything up to Paris while the Italians seized everything east of Clermont-Ferrand. Coal stocks were confiscated and heavy industry was dismantled and shipped to Germany and Italy which led to further resentment and hatred. Russia had a similar economic crisis with its monopoly on grain export to Europe weakened with Poland and the Baltic states taken away. The result was growing stagnation and inflation as well as dissatisfaction with continued autocratic rule which led to endorsement of Tsar Michael II’s liberal reforms although in hindsight these opened the door for renewed authoritarianism. Ethnic tensions also rose with a number of Ukrainian and Central Asian peasant revolts and frequent protests by legions of unemployed labourers in the cities such as Moscow and St. Petersburg. Large scale poverty and civil strife between rightwing and leftwing political factions resulted in both France and Russia and heated ethnic tensions in the latter case. The late 1910s and the 1920s up to 1925 were known as the Age of Crisis in these countries and the late 1920s and 1930s would become known as the Era of Dictators.

 

[Onkel Willie]

*bump*

No replies?

 

[MerryPrankster]

If the Germans wanted to help defuse potential problems from France later, they could have given the "rump Walloon" territory (after the Dutch annexed Flanders) to France as a kind of consolation prize.

After all, the Congress of Vienna did not turn into "everybody rape France" even though Napoleon took longer to defeat at a higher cost than the French did in TTL.

 

[Saepe Fidelis]

A very satisfying conclusion to the Great War. I'm happy that the Ottoman Empire didn't annex Persia outright, and I think that aving them replace Rusia in the north as the major power really works.

About Africa, though: I think Algeria hould stay French. At the time it was an integral part of France, or at least the cosat was-the people were of French descent and spoke French; they were the majority population, so you're not dealing with any old colony here. I'd suggest that the Algerian coastline be kept French but that the rest i.e. beneath the Atlas Mountains, be taken by the Ottomans.

Oh, and this may be a moot point and I may not have been paying attention, but is there a Suez Canal? If you've written about it then I'm just displaying my ignorance, but I'd be interested to know.