The Rebel Battle Cry

Hi guys this is my first TL so expect lots of mistakes/mess ups: :p This TL has two PODs-where some confederate units train in Hythe-style musketry training like General Cleburne's unit did, but earlier. The second one is a biggie- the Rebels decide to go for Washington, D.C. after the First Battle of Bull Run.

So sit back, relax, and enjoy!:D:p


How soon after (First) Bull Run are the Rebs gonna try for D.C?
I'm only asking because it seems like there might be a slight temporal anomaly in your TL: Beauregard was promoted brigadier general March 1, 1861 and arrived in Charleston March 3 to take command of its defences. Even with good luck it seems somewhat improbable that Lt. Grey could get permission to start training his brigade so soon. And if it's 'six month training to snipe artillery at 300yds' then you're looking at September before the brigade is ready - say six weeks after (First) Bull Run.

All the best with your timeline. :)
 
Chapter 4

This is my first shot at a longer update:) so enjoy! Comments are, as usual, very welcome!




Lt. Grey was taking a walk in the woods, on a short break from the organization and planning of his sniper brigade, when another other officer , judging by his uniform a lieutenant also, walked up alongside him and started chatting happily, asking Lt. Grey about how the weather and so on.

At first reserved about the stranger, the topic of " what do you think 'bout the war? " soon dragged in him into deep observation with the other lieutenant, and after that it seemed inevitable that he will be talking about his plans for an experimental sniper brigade.

The lieutenant impressed Grey very much, not only with his extraordinary knowledge on weaponry, but also with his education and manners ( mainly because he didn't immediately laugh at Grey's idea, but actually thought and considered about it ).

"What will be the name of your Brigade?" He asked suddenly.

Grey was taken by surprise, and he realized something really awkward.... He doesn't have a name for his planned brigade! Just then, a falcon landed on a tree nearby.

Acting fast, Lt. Grey casually responded with, "the Falcon Brigade".

"Nice name! Falcons are known for their great eyesight,and those will be what you need for your super snipers, no?" responded the other lieutenant.

As Grey rounded the last corner of the gravel path in the forest, going back to his office, he stopped to ask the lieutenant his name.

But the lieutenant was gone....
 
How soon after (First) Bull Run are the Rebs gonna try for D.C?
I'm only asking because it seems like there might be a slight temporal anomaly in your TL: Beauregard was promoted brigadier general March 1, 1861 and arrived in Charleston March 3 to take command of its defences. Even with good luck it seems somewhat improbable that Lt. Grey could get permission to start training his brigade so soon. And if it's 'six month training to snipe artillery at 300yds' then you're looking at September before the brigade is ready - say six weeks after (First) Bull Run.

All the best with your timeline. :)


Suddenly a giant temporal portal descended from the sky....:D

But no, there won't be enough time to train as Grey thought he has, so that will factor into the effectiveness of the Brigade...

And thanks for the kind words!:p
 

Saphroneth

Banned
How soon after (First) Bull Run are the Rebs gonna try for D.C?
I'm only asking because it seems like there might be a slight temporal anomaly in your TL: Beauregard was promoted brigadier general March 1, 1861 and arrived in Charleston March 3 to take command of its defences. Even with good luck it seems somewhat improbable that Lt. Grey could get permission to start training his brigade so soon. And if it's 'six month training to snipe artillery at 300yds' then you're looking at September before the brigade is ready - say six weeks after (First) Bull Run.

All the best with your timeline. :)
Six months is probably a bit of a long estimate - this came up in the other thread:


"3681. (Duke of Richmond): In what space of time do you think that a lad from the plough could be made efficient enough for the purpose of going through the musketry instructions? -The course now adopted in the line, and, in fact, thoughout the Army generally, is to take such men when they have been about a month or six weeks under the adjutant's drill. They get into our mill, as it were, and they are trained for 18 days, during which time we put them through the whole of what we call our ordinary training. After the man has gone through that ordinary training as a recruit, he is then allowed to practice as a soldier in his company, when it merely takes twelve days in the year to go through the prescribed annual course of musketry drill and practice and two or three such courses make those men most wonderfully efficient.
3682. (Lord Methuen): Do you mean to say six weeks after the recruit has joined? -In war time we do not give him so much, for in a fortnight after a recruit has joined we should bring him under rifle training.
3683. (Col. Gilpin): Where does he undergo the remaining 12 days' instruction of which you speak? -When he joins his company in an annual course.
3684. After they have left Hythe? -In all the regiments. It takes each man 12 days to go through the annual course.
3685. (Col. Pipon) After he has once gone through your mill? -No; you must understand that at Hythe we do not train men, we train teachers. The difficulty to be encountered is to get teachers. There is no difficulty in training the man."

(Evidence of Major-General Charles Crawford Hay, Inspector-General of Musketry Instruction at Hythe, in 'Report of the commissioners appointed to inquire into the establishment, organization, government, and direction of the militia of the United Kingdom; together with the minutes of evidence and appendix' Parliamentary Papers 1859 Session 2, 2553)

In other words, if you want to take a soldier from raw recruit to "wonderfully efficient" in musketry you need 54 days. If you're prepared to accept a little less, or take a recruit with some experience in firing a rifle, you can do it more quickly.


...and remember, "wonderfully efficient" is the bit where you can break up cavalry charges at a range of half a mile, or the like.

So a given man can be made to this level of ferocious efficiency in eight weeks. After that, and the proof of concept, it's another eight weeks to cycle each company or battalion through the process using the initial platoon as instructors, and though range time might become a tad complicated you've still got some pretty fine shooters.

Just shooters, mind you, other drill time takes away from shooting practice time... but it'll be worth it.
 
Six months is probably a bit of a long estimate - this came up in the other thread:





...and remember, "wonderfully efficient" is the bit where you can break up cavalry charges at a range of half a mile, or the like.

So a given man can be made to this level of ferocious efficiency in eight weeks. After that, and the proof of concept, it's another eight weeks to cycle each company or battalion through the process using the initial platoon as instructors, and though range time might become a tad complicated you've still got some pretty fine shooters.

Just shooters, mind you, other drill time takes away from shooting practice time... but it'll be worth it.

Thanks for clearing that up!

BTW does anyone know how post a link between this thread and the discussion thread? The name of the thread is "Can Stonewall Jackson take Washington D.C.?". Please bear with the noobness of a noob:eek::p!
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Amd I just noticed my "longer" update wasn't really "longer" ... :(

Any ideas on how I can stretch out updates?:eek:
Here's how I tend to do updates of my own TL. I'll be quoting from a recent post of mine in my TL Saruman of Many Devices.




Firstly - set the scene.


“All right, gentlemen!” the Uruk said, voice carrying clearly over the field – about a half-mile on each side. “Stand ready!”

The motley group of about six hundred Gondorian men – until recently swordsmen, spearmen and bowmen, though all with good eyesight – straightened.



Do the exposition:


One young man raised his hand. “Sir – uh, what do muzzle-loading and rifle mean?”

“Good question if you don't know,” the officer agreed. “A rifle is a kind of gun – it is, essentially, a metal tube closed at one end. An explosion takes place in the closed end, and forces the bullet – like a sling bullet – out of the open end. Because it is rifled, it is more accurate because the bullet spins.”

Taking one of the Ithils from his assistant, the officer grounded the butt and held up a paper cartridge. “This is what you fire. First, you bite the paper to open it, and then spill the powder down the open end – the muzzle.”



And thirdly - have conversation, events, and development.


He clapped his hands. “So – the green target? Anyone got an idea?”

As someone was about to try their luck, a series of thuds echoed over the fields – faintly audible even this far from Osgiliath.

“Hm,” he muttered. “Wonder what's going on over there...”

Full post's here:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=11021216&postcount=452


As you may have noticed, it's about... the Hythe method. ;)






The real key is to imagine a dynamic moment, and then write down the events involved. It's not just one person pondering something, it's...

...a young lieutenant sitting down at his folding camp-desk somewhere in southern Virginia and hissing, running his fingers through his hair as he tries to get his head around how to demonstrate the value of this musketry method to the Confederate army.
Someone comes in, and asks what's bothering him, and at first he tries to avoid talking about it too much - then it gets too much, and he pours out the troubles he's having.


That gets the same information across, but it really lives.
 
Thanks for clearing that up!

BTW does anyone know how post a link between this thread and the discussion thread? The name of the thread is "Can Stonewall Jackson take Washington D.C.?". Please bear with the noobness of a noob:eek::p!

I tend to use a fairly brute force approach...go to page information (the bit with http stoof stuff wotsits) copy then go to insert link, which is just under the emots on your post toolbar and paste into the dialogue box.

You can be fancy

Can Stonewall take DC

or not

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=11323667#post11323667

Either way you can link it to a post or even in your sig. There may be a niftier way but that basic one works for me :D
 
Here's how I tend to do updates of my own TL. I'll be quoting from a recent post of mine in my TL Saruman of Many Devices.




Firstly - set the scene.






Do the exposition:






And thirdly - have conversation, events, and development.




Full post's here:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=11021216&postcount=452


As you may have noticed, it's about... the Hythe method. ;)






The real key is to imagine a dynamic moment, and then write down the events involved. It's not just one person pondering something, it's...

...a young lieutenant sitting down at his folding camp-desk somewhere in southern Virginia and hissing, running his fingers through his hair as he tries to get his head around how to demonstrate the value of this musketry method to the Confederate army.
Someone comes in, and asks what's bothering him, and at first he tries to avoid talking about it too much - then it gets too much, and he pours out the troubles he's having.


That gets the same information across, but it really lives.

Agree, nicely done Saphroneth, I have greatly enjoyed your updates good advice.
 
Here's how I tend to do updates of my own TL. I'll be quoting from a recent post of mine in my TL Saruman of Many Devices.




Firstly - set the scene.






Do the exposition:






And thirdly - have conversation, events, and development.




Full post's here:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=11021216&postcount=452


As you may have noticed, it's about... the Hythe method. ;)






The real key is to imagine a dynamic moment, and then write down the events involved. It's not just one person pondering something, it's...

...a young lieutenant sitting down at his folding camp-desk somewhere in southern Virginia and hissing, running his fingers through his hair as he tries to get his head around how to demonstrate the value of this musketry method to the Confederate army.
Someone comes in, and asks what's bothering him, and at first he tries to avoid talking about it too much - then it gets too much, and he pours out the troubles he's having.


That gets the same information across, but it really lives.

Pretty much what Donald said!:p
 
I like your TL, but I haven't been really able to situate it temporally. You say that the POD is that PGT attacks washington after Manassas, but in chapter one you say that PGT is already the first General of the CSA, when he was only a Brigadier General in Manassas and was only promoted to full general after the Battle. More the civil war begun in April 12, and Manassas was on the July 21, so Grey wouldn't have time to train his men to fight at the battle (I'm assuming they fought there).

And one more thing. As I said Beauregard was a Brigadier General at this time, so he wouldn't have the power to give a brigade to an inexperience officer. The only men with power to that was Joseph E. Johnston and I dough he would do it. So may I sugest you change from a full Brigade, that would demand that Lieutenant Gray be promoted directly from lieutenant to Brigadier General or to full Colonel, to a battalion. It's more plausible for Gray to be promoted to Major or lieutenant-colonel and given command of a battalion of crack troops, than to be directly promoted to General, or full Colonel, and be given a Brigade.
 
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And one more thing. As I said Beauregard was a Brigadier General at this time, so he wouldn't have the power to give a brigade to an inexperience officer. The only men with power to that was Joseph E. Johnston and I dough he would do it. So may I sugest you change from a full Brigade, that would demand that Lieutenant Gray be promoted directly from lieutenant to Brigadier General or to full Colonel, to a battalion. It's more plausible for Gray to be promoted to Major or lieutenant-colonel and given command of a battalion of crack troops, than to be directly promoted to General, or full Colonel, and be given a Brigade.

Johnston would not do it, Beauregard is more likely- - but that is because i said in the original idea thread that Beauregard would be more likely to do something this outrageous. Plus, the guys has won two victories, being Bull Run and Fort Sumter - he has to think that "third times a charm" or something. Regardless of where he is in the rankings, he is the no1 Confedeate General at the moment because of those two victories.

That said, this Lieutenant Grey is not going to get promoted that easily./ Firstly, he has to prove his idea can work in practice, and at the same time he has to be successful at it. And by successful i mean the attack on Washington has to be a success for him to even get to Colonel, let alone General.

Depending on when this figmentry attack is, the longer they wait the more likely that the Union has more troops there, and a brigade being used as an experiment is going to do jack-squat against an army defending the capital city. This brigade needs to be at the forefront of the fighting to prove that this idea works, but even then, its doubtful that they will even get across the Potomac.
 
That said, this Lieutenant Grey is not going to get promoted that easily./ Firstly, he has to prove his idea can work in practice, and at the same time he has to be successful at it. And by successful i mean the attack on Washington has to be a success for him to even get to Colonel, let alone General.

Actually no. Not, note, that I dispute the fact (and it is a probability so likely to be taken as fact) that the CS attack on Washington will fail. However the retreat may well give Lieutenant Grey a chance to shine. A couple of reasons, one retreats are hard work and a bunch of sharper than sharp (or even Sharpe) sharpshooters keeping pursuers off the main column's back is likely to get noticed and secondly disasters are so much more palatable with a bright spot.

An apparent failure of the Confederacy's conventional arms is likely to make the new wunder warriors shine all the brighter in the Southern imagination.

It is worth noting that the City in question's namesake began making his martial reputation with a well handled retreat.
 
During the Battle of Fort Stevens Lincoln rode out to observe the battle and came under fire. Doing the same in this situation could turn out badly.
 
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