Having caught up once more, I admit this is making me interested once more in ancient Egypt. 
"The Realm of Millions of Years": The World of an Atenist Egypt
- Thread starter Oracle of Sobek 𓆋
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This may be off-topic, but it concerns precisely the same time period. Several years ago I bought a book entitled The Moses Mystery by Gary Greenberg, which argues that Moses was actually Akhenaten's chief priest (real name possibly Hormose or Ramose and transcribed as HRMS (or RMS), and misidentified by later Greek writers as Hermes, which later had the god-name element Ra or Hor(us) removed, leaving the name Moses), who was driven south of Egypt after Akhenaten's death and purge of the Atenist priesthood, and who later organized a rebellion involving several disaffected groups after the death of Horemheb, which was later mythologized into the Exodus.
I found the argument unconvincing, I think his attempts to link biblical and Egyptian chronology are strained at best. But he does point out numerous correlations between historical accounts of Akhenaten's reign, and those of his immediate successors (including those accounts found in Josephus), and the biblical account of Moses and his times, which had been ignored by almost all Egyptologists, for what appear to be emotional reasons -- namely that Atenism and early Judaism could not possibly be related, it was just not possible.
As I said, I was not convinced by his arguments, but they are certainly intriguing.
I found the argument unconvincing, I think his attempts to link biblical and Egyptian chronology are strained at best. But he does point out numerous correlations between historical accounts of Akhenaten's reign, and those of his immediate successors (including those accounts found in Josephus), and the biblical account of Moses and his times, which had been ignored by almost all Egyptologists, for what appear to be emotional reasons -- namely that Atenism and early Judaism could not possibly be related, it was just not possible.
As I said, I was not convinced by his arguments, but they are certainly intriguing.
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As soon as anyone mentions "Biblical Chronology" and "Egyptian history" in the same sentence, red flags spring up and alarms go off in my head, because it's pretty safe to assume that it's nothing more that pseudo-history/archeology. The bible has a pretty fantastic track record of portraying Ancient Egypt incorrectly (I'm looking at YOU, Exodus!) for a supposedly contemporary source.
Now, I should mention that this "-mose"/"-meses"/"-mes" suffix appears on a lot of Ancient Egyptian names (Including that of Iahames in this TL), as it basically means "Born of X"; therefore, it should come as no surprise that there were a number of people in Akhenaten's OTL administration with this element in their names: 3 Ramose's (a vizier, a general who has actually been mentioned in this TL, and another military official) and an Iahames (an actual one, not "mine" - this name is also transcribed "Ahmose", but I loathe that transcription for various irrational reasons). Now, the first "Ramose" also held the title "Chief of the Prophets of the North and South", which could be a reference to the Aten priesthood, but it could also be a reference to court diviners
. I'll admit I lose track of this Ramose after Akhenaten's death, and having not read the book I'm not privy to the full extent of his arguments, but looking over the review you linked leaves me unconvinced.As for the whole "Judaism springing from Atenism" thing... I don't buy it. I certainly think elements of Egyptian religion may have influenced early Judaism, and there are passages in the Great Hymn to the Aten that eerily foreshadow the Psalms, but given that the Levant was under Egyptian rule for nearly 400 years, the presence of some cultural influence should shock anyone.
Though personally, I've always found the "The Hebrews were/made up part of the Hyksos" argument to be far more compelling and plausible, but that's another matter entirely.
Having caught up once more, I admit this is making me interested once more in ancient Egypt.
Excellent *Tents Fingers*
Hmmm. In my latest reading on Hebrew origins, I had come to understand that a major theory amongst archaeologists now is that the Hebrews were Canaanites; that they coalesced in hill towns in Canaan (some of which have been found, indicatively without the pig bones that are found in similar towns elsewhere), and then swept down from the hills to take the rest of the land, and weren't invaders from outside at all.
They then would have told tales of themselves as a separate people to build political identity in their struggles against their neighbours.
It could also be a little from column A, a little from column B... The Hebrews themselves very likely were indigenous to Canaan, but they could have been influenced by/absorbed the Semitic Hyksos who were expelled from Lower Egypt under Iahames/Ahmose I (the king after whom prince Iahames in TTL is named) and driven into that neighbourhood. I imagine being chased across the desert by Egyptian chariots would make a great story, especially after a few embellishments (like saying the Egyptians were trying to enslave you instead of kicking you out of their country
).Do not forget that in that age even defeats were turned into victories when they are described on inscriptions.
You may have already covered this... But what is the effects of Atenism on the Nubians to the south? (if they exist at the current time that is...), I know the Nubians often copied Egyptian culture, so is Atenism having an effect?
For the moment, no, Atenism is not having a pronounced effect aside from the fact that the temple of Amen-Ra at Jebel Barkal was targeted in Iahames' purge. However, Nubia is part of the Egyptian Empire, and interestingly it's far more integrated than Retjenu. While Retjenu is a patchwork of petty kingdoms swearing fealty to Egypt (with the presence of Egyptian garrisons reinforcing that loyalty), Nubia is ruled directly by the "Viceroy of Kush" (though there are some independent tribes in the eastern mountains, whose members are regularly recruited as mercenaries), meaning that it's kept on a much shorter leash - it's status is just short of being ruled directly as an Egyptian sepat (nome/province) in fact.
During the OTL reign of Akhenaten, a rebellion did occur in a gold-mining region of Nubia called Ikuyta (sound familiar? from the last update, perhaps?), and that's about it. The rebellion was put down, and the records are pretty damn silent after that. That rebellion will still occur in TTL, right on schedule in 1334 BCE (we're currently at about 1343 BCE, FYI), and I will be showing how it unfolds in this alternate reality. Let's just say a certain someone will be travelling to Ikuyta and their experiences there may give them various ideas...
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Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Will Egypt expand any further soon? Or it'll stay more or less the same size it is for now.
So for the most part, they remain unchanged by recent developments? It'll be interesting to see, maybe in 200 years or so, what Nubia is like by then. Perhaps the alienation from their Atenist Egyptian overlords (if, indeed, Atenism succeeds to the fullest) would create a wholly independent Nubian identity - similar to that of Kerma, I guess. Of course, the flip side would be that Atenism (if accepted by the Nubians) actually unites the Nubians further into the fold of mainstream Egypt, monotheistic religions tend to be a big unifier.
Just my thoughts though...
Should be pretty interesting. I'll be looking forward! Rebellions are always fun.
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I'd take a look at how Prince Tutankhaten, the alt-Tut, has been portrayed so far (in admittedly fleeting glimpses) to get some hints regarding that question... That's all I'm saying.
Time out! I said that Nubia hasn't been all that heavily affected so far!
Remember, Akhenaten has been busy with building his new capital and attending to the drama in the Near East; Nubia has been able to fly under the radar for the most part. However, the fact remains that it's basically an Egyptian province in all but name, and that it has long been a favourite playground for the Egyptians AND is a major source of the Empire's wealth... Thutmose III, Akhenaten's ancestor, set up a stela in Jebel Barkal that essentially declared Lower Nubia to be an extension of Upper Egypt. Once the rebellion kicks off, all attention that has been diverted elsewhere will be back on Nubia. The first phase of Akhenaten's reign focused to Egypt proper, the second on Retjenu, and in the third it will be Nubia's turn...Definitely interesting thoughts, though. Who knows what the future will bring, after all? Well, okay, I do, but that would spoil it...
Should be pretty interesting. I'll be looking forward! Rebellions are always fun.
Aren't they, though?
Excellent *Tents Fingers*
Pfft, the late Russian Empire or 19th century Mexico are still far cooler than some cruddy Egyptians.
Pfft, the late Russian Empire or 19th century Mexico are still far cooler than some cruddy Egyptians.
HERESY!
Pfft, the late Russian Empire or 19th century Mexico are still far cooler than some cruddy Egyptians.
Oh please, everyone knows that Novaya Russia and New Spain were far cooler than the Russian Empire and 19th century Mexico. And that even more awesome than that is ancient Egyptians IN SPACE.
Somehow, The Realm of Millions of Years has to end this way. I would give all my internets.And that even more awesome than that is ancient Egyptians IN SPACE.
Kaiphranos
Donor
Ancient Egyptians in Alpha Centauri. Why? I don't know, therefore ALIENS.
The Egyptians have launched a spaceship! It will arrive at Alpha Centauri in 1976 AD.
Obviously the ship will be named Akhenaten, in true Civilization fashion...
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