The Raven of the East

[MerryPrankster]

With Alp Arslan in India (!) at the moment and the Byzantines in a stronger position, I don't think OTL's Manzikert is in the cards.

Whither the Fatimids? In OTL, Alp Arslan was fighting the Fatimids (I think he was besieging Aleppo) when Romanus Diogenes marched east. He abandoned the siege and rushed north for Manzikert.

In TTL, things will be rather different for them.

And things don't look good for Harold Godwinsson right now. I question the strategic wisdom of abandoning most of England to the Danes--even if he wants to wait for Morcar, couldn't he do harrying attacks, waste the countryside to starve the Danes, etc?

 

[Cambyses]

With Alp Arslan in India (!) at the moment and the Byzantines in a stronger position, I don't think OTL's Manzikert is in the cards.

Whither the Fatimids? In OTL, Alp Arslan was fighting the Fatimids (I think he was besieging Aleppo) when Romanus Diogenes marched east. He abandoned the siege and rushed north for Manzikert.

In TTL, things will be rather different for them.

And things don't look good for Harold Godwinsson right now. I question the strategic wisdom of abandoning most of England to the Danes--even if he wants to wait for Morcar, couldn't he do harrying attacks, waste the countryside to starve the Danes, etc?

The Fatmids still haven't recovered from their disastrous internal problems during the early 1060's. They've lost most of their middle eastern territory outside Egypt proper to the Seljuks, but eventually things should stabilise enough that they start giving Arslan problems.

One thing that will affect any conflict with the Byzantines is the bloated size of the Seljuk Empire. Arslan in OTL would have preferred a stable frontier with the Byzies, and that's even more true now.

Regarding Harold, you're absolutely right. He's being overly cautious because of the strength of the Danish army. He's going to have to act soon though, or he'll lose by default.

The only bit of remotely good news for the English is Edgar's victory over the Jarl of Orkney, as a loss could have left England with Norsmen at all sides. But does Harold really want a militarily successful member of the House of Wessex running around...?

 

[Pachac]

Alp Arslan actually offered Romanus peace before attacking him as Manzikert, but Romanus refused. It was obvious he was interested in the stability of the empire than fighting the Byzantines but they forced him into it.

The Fatmids disinigrated, having lost most of their outside supporters, after the Nizari-Musta'li split of 1094, though having lost their territories outside Egypt they were collapsing anyhow. The 1060s were utterly terrible for them and the loss of their territories in the Levant and Syria in 1078 didn't give them any help. They had a brief respite when the crusaders attacked the Seljuks but were thrown back into constant factional wars and the like until their fall. When he leaves India they will probably collapse, which has grave consequences for Ismailis everywhere. it is likely that if Nizar survives, he will become the main leader of Ismaili Islam.

 

[Cambyses]

Alp Arslan actually offered Romanus peace before attacking him as Manzikert, but Romanus refused. It was obvious he was interested in the stability of the empire than fighting the Byzantines but they forced him into it.

The Fatmids disinigrated, having lost most of their outside supporters, after the Nizari-Musta'li split of 1094, though having lost their territories outside Egypt they were collapsing anyhow. The 1060s were utterly terrible for them and the loss of their territories in the Levant and Syria in 1078 didn't give them any help. They had a brief respite when the crusaders attacked the Seljuks but were thrown back into constant factional wars and the like until their fall. When he leaves India they will probably collapse, which has grave consequences for Ismailis everywhere. it is likely that if Nizar survives, he will become the main leader of Ismaili Islam.

Hmm...it seems that the Fatmids are at a bit of a nadir in their fortunes then. Things are even worse for them than they were OTL, and there almost certainly won't be a crusade to bail them out any time soon.

I'll have to have a think about them.

 

[Pachac]

Hmm...it seems that the Fatmids are at a bit of a nadir in their fortunes then. Things are even worse for them than they were OTL, and there almost certainly won't be a crusade to bail them out any time soon.

I'll have to have a think about them.

One would think that Alp Arslan would take Egypt. They are at war with him, and once he totals the Fatimid army, it's essentially at his mercy. Though devastated by the civil war of 1060, it is still a rich land.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Re: the Fatimids, the Seljuks probably aren't hammering on them like they were in OTL, so they might actually be better off right now.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Here's the Wikipedia article on the Fatimids. You might find some useful information here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid_Caliphate

 

[Pachac]

Re: the Fatimids, the Seljuks probably aren't hammering on them like they were in OTL, so they might actually be better off right now.

Egypt in the 1060s had a series of droughts and famines, and a civil war rocked them extremely hard. They've also got the significant problem of losing prestige due to their decline and the fact that many Persians Ismailis are beginning to lose faith in them. Once the Levant is taken, the Fatimids are fairly doomed. They were already in decline because of the Zirid takeover of their North African territories.

Here's the Wikipedia article on the Fatimids. You might find some useful information here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid_Caliphate

The wikipedia article on the Fatimids is one of the least helpful pieces of information on Wikipedia. While not wrong, it's simply too empty of information to be of use.

http://www.iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=106321

If you want an online source, that's the best. The IIS is the absolute best source on the Isma'ilis.

 

[Cambyses]

One would think that Alp Arslan would take Egypt. They are at war with him, and once he totals the Fatimid army, it's essentially at his mercy. Though devastated by the civil war of 1060, it is still a rich land.

He certainly want's it, it's a matter of whether he can take it without growing overstretched. The conquest of the Ghaznavids has added an awful lot of territory to administer.

The wikipedia article on the Fatimids is one of the least helpful pieces of information on Wikipedia. While not wrong, it's simply too empty of information to be of use.

http://www.iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=106321

If you want an online source, that's the best. The IIS is the absolute best source on the Isma'ilis.

I've used wiki a bit, but that's a great source. Plus it's reminded me that I really need to include Nizam-al-Mulk a bit. Perhaps I'll have him organise the Empire whilst Arslan goes off conquering.

 

[Pachac]

He certainly want's it, it's a matter of whether he can take it without growing overstretched. The conquest of the Ghaznavids has added an awful lot of territory to administer.

Indeed. I wonder if this will spur some sort of settlement of the north Gangetic plain by Turks, later on?

I've used wiki a bit, but that's a great source. Plus it's reminded me that I really need to include Nizam-al-Mulk a bit. Perhaps I'll have him organise the Empire whilst Arslan goes off conquering.

Nizam will have his hands full. he really was one of the most brilliant administrators of he middle ages, but still, organizing rebellious territories in the area of Afghanistan will be a headache.

Also, great TL.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Any updates planned anytime soon?

 

[Velasco]

Just thugh I'd point out that Harold Godwinson was related to King Edward by marriage (giving him a stronger claim by proximity of blood than William) as well as related to the Danish Kings - Sweyn II is his first cousin. Above all, he's appropriately English and adult, giving him a fairly. . decent claim, at very least.

 

[Cambyses]

Any updates planned anytime soon?

Maybe, I go through phases where I don't feel like writing much, and other phases where I write loads. At the moment I'm in a bit of a funk.

I'll have a look at my notes and see if inspiration strikes.

Just thugh I'd point out that Harold Godwinson was related to King Edward by marriage (giving him a stronger claim by proximity of blood than William) as well as related to the Danish Kings - Sweyn II is his first cousin. Above all, he's appropriately English and adult, giving him a fairly. . decent claim, at very least.

He has at least as good a claim as the other big two, yes. But Sweyn has a considerable military advantage at the moment.

It's worth noting that Sweyn, Harold, Harald, and William are all getting on a bit by the standards of the time. So things may get shaken up a bit fairly soon when they start to die.

 

[Cambyses]

1072 ad

The war in England reaches crisis point as the Norse army marches north on Harold Godwinson's forces in Jorvik. Harold, bolstered by the arrival of Earl Morcar, heads out to meet them, the two armies meeting near the village of Little Driffield. The resulting battle is now considered the last major clash of North-Germanic shieldwalls, and like it's predecessors is a slow, grinding affair. Ultimately Norse numbers prove too heavy and Harold is forced to withdraw with the onset of night, though his troops are able to quit the field in good order and fall back towards Jorvik. The Norse prepare to pursue but are checked two days after the battle when Sweyn, exhausted from years of campaigning, succumbs to his age and dies. His chosen successor declares himself King Knut IV of Denmark, Norway, England, and Some of the Frisians.

In Normandy, William the Bastard continues to rebuild his fortunes, but is under pressure from enemies in Brittany and Anjou. He is granted a reprieve when Rivallon I of Dol, a Breton Duke-Archbishopric, rebels against Conan of Brittany, stating that 'Dol owes fealty to the Pope alone.' William is quick to capitalise, lending aid to Rivallon.

To the East, Alp Arslan, satisfied with his arrangements with the Rajputs in Northern India, moves to address his troublesome Eastern Frontier. The chaos gripping Fatmid Egypt has gone on far too long for his liking.

Rudolf von Rheinfelden marries Adelhied, daughter of Otto of Savoy, and begins to capitalise on his recent victories, securing control of the greater part of Germany and beginning to style himself 'King of the Germans.'

Emperor Michael VII begins to assert himself a little more around court, beginning to take an active role in state meetings he had previously merely sat through. Rumours in the city suggest that much of the Emperor's new found assertiveness in public comes at the prompting of the Empress Zoe and is a result of his weakness in private, as Zoe is purportedly every bit as fierce as her father.