The Rainbow. A World War One on Canada's West Coast Timeline

[YYJ]

Book Club Discussion Questions.

How will local historians enamoured of the early century coastal steamships react to so many of these classic vessels being sunk?

Is Lieutenant Istevan Radl committing treason?

Is the Anglican minister conducting the Kincolith brass band committing treason when he inadvertently has his band play the enemy national anthem?

Discuss the use of bears in the story.

If Admiral Von Spee had brought the whole East Asiatic Squadron to British Columbia, would it have caused more havoc than the light cruiser elements in the story? Do Nürnberg and Leipzig cause more damage to the material war effort than the rumours already circulating OTL, that caused a near full stop on Entente shipping for around three weeks?

Lieutenants Pilcher and Von Spee are both junior officers given a great deal of responsibility. One has a nervous breakdown, one continues to rise to the challenge. What influences their different outcomes?

Scavenger hunt: At various points in the story, Nurnberg’s crewmen dropped rifles overboard. Pin these on a map.

 

[weasel_airlift]

How will local historians enamoured of the early century coastal steamships react to so many of these classic vessels being sunk?

Well, at least many of them will be accessible via diving. A better end than most of them got anyhow, being broken up, or rotting at some dock.

Is Lieutenant Istevan Radl committing treason?

I suppose that depends. Is he considered a Canadian citizen? Or simply a resident alien? If a Canadian citizen, then yes, I'd say so. Moreover, if his involvement becomes widely known, look for all CP expats in Entente lands to be harassed at the least, and interned more likely.

Discuss the use of bears in the story.

Bearly worth mentioning.

If Admiral Von Spee had brought the whole East Asiatic Squadron to British Columbia, would it have caused more havoc than the light cruiser elements in the story? Do Nürnberg and Leipzig cause more damage to the material war effort than the rumours already circulating OTL, that caused a near full stop on Entente shipping for around three weeks?

The biggest change I would see here is that any shelling would be more effective, and Rainbow could be slaughtered without being able to land a shell in reply. That said, a submarine might have bagged a bigger fish.

Short answer, not a lot different, excepting that Rainbow might have accomplished nothing.

 

[ferdi254]

Those small torpedoes would have bearly (SCNR) scratched a Scharnhorst.

 

[Sanderford]

Is Lieutenant Istevan Radl committing treason?

Not unless he is a British national by law as well as his birth nationality, in which case he is a traitor, and may be sentenced to death if caught. He is, however, guilty of acting as a partisan as he was fighting alongside the Imperial German Navy before he was commissioned into service, and in any case? If the British take him alive, legalities be damned. He is likely looking at what I would call a quarterdeck trial.

Basically? The captain of the ship which captures him and his crewmates learns of his past, and orders a firing party. His corpse is then disposed of over the side with no ceremony.

 

[YYJ]

Those small torpedoes would have bearly (SCNR) scratched a Scharnhorst.

Warhead = 200 lb. wet guncotton

18-in Mark IV Torpedo (UK) - The Dreadnought Project

www.dreadnoughtproject.org

 

[Spencersj345.346]

Warhead = 200 lb. wet guncotton

18-in Mark IV Torpedo (UK) - The Dreadnought Project

www.dreadnoughtproject.org

And the Scharnhorsts much like basically all armored crusiers have crap all in terms of torpedo defenses. Honestly I argue that the hit the subs scored did way less damage than it should have

 

[perdu42]

If the British take him alive, legalities be damned. He is likely looking at what I would call a quarterdeck trial.

Basically? The captain of the ship which captures him and his crewmates learns of his past, and orders a firing party. His corpse is then disposed of over the side with no ceremony.

Agreed.
Whether this application of Rule 303 would have consequences is another question.

 

[RelativeGalaxy7]

Those small torpedoes would have bearly (SCNR) scratched a Scharnhorst.

Action of 22 September 1914 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Given how a German U-Boat vaguely similar to the Canadian CC class boats sank three British armoured cruisers in Sept of 1914 with admittedly more powerful 17.7”, I don’t think the Germans would emerge very well from such a barrage. Older armoured cruisers had somewhat questionable subdivision even by the time of the Scharnhorsts.

 

[ferdi254]

Seriously more powerful, the Gernan shipswere 8 years younger and two of the three cruisers took two hits.

 

[RelativeGalaxy7]

Seriously more powerful, the Gernan shipswere 8 years younger and two of the three cruisers took two hits.

The exact date of the ships in question isn't particularly relevant, they are all armored cruisers of vaguely the same vintage which means that their underwater protection and subdivision is completely not up to the task of defending from period torpedoes. U-9 was a single submarine that managed to sink three armored cruisers, the Canadian have two submarines with comparable enough torpedoes. All it takes is one hit to potentially cripple these ships. The subs are also able to defend from static positions and generally know where the Germans will be coming from given the huge size of such a raiding force on the coast of BC. The ranges and warhead weights are comparable between the Canadian and German torpedoes. If they set an ambush similar to U-9 IRL especially around one of the many, many chokepoints in the coastal BC waters, the Scharnhorst class could just as easily be put to the undersea sword just as easily. Do not be deceived by the lucky hit on Nurnberg in the story, the submarines are a very real danger to even those newer armored cruisers.

It's completely out of touch with reality to say these torpedoes would barely scratch an armored cruiser like Scharnhorst, I'm sure that opinion would fit in with the big gun surface Admirals of the period fairly well.

 

[YYJ]

The exact date of the ships in question isn't particularly relevant, they are all armored cruisers of vaguely the same vintage which means that their underwater protection and subdivision is completely not up to the task of defending from period torpedoes. U-9 was a single submarine that managed to sink three armored cruisers, the Canadian have two submarines with comparable enough torpedoes. All it takes is one hit to potentially cripple these ships. The subs are also able to defend from static positions and generally know where the Germans will be coming from given the huge size of such a raiding force on the coast of BC. The ranges and warhead weights are comparable between the Canadian and German torpedoes. If they set an ambush similar to U-9 IRL especially around one of the many, many chokepoints in the coastal BC waters, the Scharnhorst class could just as easily be put to the undersea sword just as easily. Do not be deceived by the lucky hit on Nurnberg in the story, the submarines are a very real danger to even those newer armored cruisers.

It's completely out of touch with reality to say these torpedoes would barely scratch an armored cruiser like Scharnhorst, I'm sure that opinion would fit in with the big gun surface Admirals of the period fairly well.

I am inclined to agree. If CC-1 or 2 hit Scharnhorst or Gneisenau, the AC would be in trouble.

I just re-read the action report of the sinking of the three Cressys. Aboukir sank from a single torpedo, in the engine room, which killed all the steam operated stuff, some of which may have helped save the ship. Aboukir did have enough time to attempt to counter-flood, but it was not enough.

Hogue was hit simultaneously by two torpedoes in the engine room. The watertight doors were left open, even though the ship was now a half hour into a submarine attack. Hogue capsized quickly. Cressy was hit once, but had all watertight door secured and might have survived if she was not torpedoed again 15 minutes later.

The torpedoes fired by U-9 were the 45cm/ 17.7" C/06 with a 270 lb TNT warhead, about a third larger than the warhead carried by the Canadian subs. The German torpedoes were a much better running torpedo. The East Asiatic squadron might be hard for the Canadian subs to hit, if they were moving fast and manoeuvring. In the Action of 22 September 1914, the British cruisers were steaming at 9 knots and not zig-gagging, and then they were stationary rescuing survivors. But if the Mk IV hit one of the Scharnhorst I expect it would at least be a mission kill, given that there is no place to repair.

Pre-World War II Torpedoes of Germany - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

The Loss of the Aboukir, Cressy and Hogue - The Dreadnought Project

www.dreadnoughtproject.org

 

[marathag]

Warhead = 200 lb. wet guncotton

18-in Mark IV Torpedo (UK) - The Dreadnought Project

www.dreadnoughtproject.org

after hitting a German Mine with a smaller charge

 

[YYJ]

Alright, we have talked about other torpedo attacks.

Is it plausible that TTL Nürnberg "survived" the torpedo hit it did in this story, in the way it did? In the chapter called Spant 68. Meaning stayed afloat, with maximum damage control and pumping, including portable pumps on loan from Leipzig, made enough headway to reach Barclay Sound 90 nautical miles away. after nightfall. Then stayed afloat until next morning when it was scuttled.

Here is what I was thinking: Nürnberg had 13 watertight compartments, that were secured, because the ship was in combat at the time. My plans of Emden show 13 compartments, not as evenly spaced as the line drawing above. The torpedo hit between the forward funnels, on the dotted line between the compartments labelled 5 and 6 on the Brasse's Naval Annual line drawing. The Germans labelled the compartments. 8 and 9 because they counted stern forward. That flooded the forward 2 boiler rooms, and caused leaks into the compartments on either side, The crew abandoned the guns and put all manpower onto damage control. The ship had plenty of other battle damage, but no other holes below the waterline. The cross section at Frame (Spant) 55 in the Emden plans shows coal bunkers outboard of the boiler room, both above and below the armoured deck. The section also shows a kind of grey hatched band at the waterline. The key does not explain what this band is, but it has the same pattern as the compartment behind the ram, which is labelled as Korkfüllung (Cork filling) so it may be a very rudimentary TDS of the day.

I would expect the ship's systems would be tremendously shocked by the explosion.

after hitting a German Mine with a smaller charge

Minnesota made it back to the shipyard under her own power, but was a 16,000 ton ship, so more bouyancy. And her Admiral had a thing about reinforcing the bulkheads on the ships of his command.

BTW, what is that fin in the picture at the right? The wiki article says the bow was flooded, but that looks like it would be ahead of the rudder. But then there are no prop shafts. I don't get it.

 

[YYJ]

Plans of Emden, that I am using as plans of Nürnberg.

https://www.virtualdockyard.co.uk/0-PLANS-PAGES/EMDEN-2--langssshif.jpg

 

[ferdi254]

There is this thing that on German ships the coal bunkers were deliberately placed along the hull below the waterline because the coal absorps a lot of the energy of the explosion. That makes a great difference.

 

[weasel_airlift]

There is this thing that on German ships the coal bunkers were deliberately placed along the hull below the waterline because the coal absorps a lot of the energy of the explosion. That makes a great difference.

I believe the RN did that too. That said, the German navy did not seem to have the love affair with longitudinal bulkheads that the RN did.

 

[YYJ]

There is this thing that on German ships the coal bunkers were deliberately placed along the hull below the waterline because the coal absorps a lot of the energy of the explosion. That makes a great difference.

Yes, I was thinking of that, and included it in my description of the hit on Nürnberg. But a quick search of the old internet found me a cross section of the Cressy class.

Tiny, but you can see the Cressys had the same arrangement, and it does not seem to have helped them. Plus, I would have expected those bigger ships (the Cressys were 12,000 tons) to provide more reserve bouyancy. I suppose it matters some whether the side bunkers were full or empty at the time.

Armoured Cruiser Cressy: Detailed in the Original Builders' Plans

<p><strong>The complete set of builders’ plans for the Royal Navy’s Victorian era armored cruiser famously sunk during WWI.</strong></p> <p>The builders of British warships created a highly detailed set of plans for each ship upon completion. These highly detailed, multicolored drawings...

www.chapters.indigo.ca

 

[Cryhavoc101]

No one seems to have treated underwater flooding with as much seriousness as they should have done pre war

The British certainly after the loss of Audacious started to treat it more seriously after she hit a mine (which she should of survived but the ships that could have helped cleared off thinking it was a torpedo attack) and loss of the Live bait squadron who conversely thought that they had hit mines and did hang around to help getting torpedoed in turn.

But at the time of this story its unlikely that the German Crusiers or any similar vessel would effectively have survived a torpedo hit and likely to have been lost to progressive flooding.

However that being said not all torpedo hits are the same and so its not inconceivable that such a ship might survive but as per this TL was deemed a total loss

 

[ferdi254]

ITTL it was the fish that sank the ship. It may have lasted a bit longer than realistic but hey, on the other side two outdated subs with inexperienced crews and outdated fishes made it to a shooting position.

YYJ thx.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Is the Anglican minister conducting the Kincolith brass band committing treason when he inadvertently has his band play the enemy national anthem?

Hey! "Zion's King Shall Reign Victorious" is a great, rousing hymn!
(Although, I do remember the reaction of our choir master's dad (Dutch, had fled during/immediately after WWII) to hearing us sing it.....)

And we stole it from the Austro-Hungarians, not the Nazis.