Completely impossible, I'd say. Were there to head there after finishing up in Prince Rupert, they'd probably be rowing before they made it to the North Sea. The engines will be clapped out needing a major overhaul, and there will be enough growth on her bottom to slow her engine to a crawl.
The Rainbow. A World War One on Canada's West Coast Timeline
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Completely impossible, I'd say. Were there to head there after finishing up in Prince Rupert, they'd probably be rowing before they made it to the North Sea. The engines will be clapped out needing a major overhaul, and there will be enough growth on her bottom to slow her engine to a crawl.
If the main objective was to get home, the crew could have interred Nürnberg in Honolulu and taken an American steamer to The Netherlands. Nürnberg's orders are ITTL, in order:
Yep. The two German cruisers are pretty much doomed. The only question is how much damage they can do before their demise and how many of the crews survive.
For the latter their best bet is after being heavily damaged or running out of munitions they flee to an American port and are interned for the rest of the war.
Driftless
Donor
Yup. They got part - not all - of the bottom cleaned during the mis-adventure of getting stuck on the tidal sandbank, but the engines will need maintenance before long. What is the quality of the coal they picked up in Anyox? I have no idea what grade is used in smelting, but I believe warships need a higher grade of coal for peak performance. I could imagine Prince Rupert might be scuttled following the shooting match with the Russian ship - not that it's been critical hits, but there would be little purpose and even less time for even cursory patches.
If it's that bad, they can pick themselves a new steamer and use that instead. They do have that coal ship, but they might want another quick steamer. Maybe another liner can be purloined. Then sink Prince Rupert in the channel.
Thinking of what is going on onboard the Nurnberg. They heard the battle, but presumably didn't see any of the fight. Nurnberg knows there is an enemy warship ahead. Prinz Rupert's fate is unknown; the fate of the enemy warship is unknown. I think the Nurnberg's officers and crew could tell that those were light guns firing.
Where is Prince Rupert's sister ship at the moment? It would be amusing if the Prince George was in Prince Rupert.
Where is Prince Rupert's sister ship at the moment? It would be amusing if the Prince George was in Prince Rupert.
I just got caught up to this story, and it is extremely well researched and written. Congratulations!
Nothing to do with this story, but interesting (to me)....
My father joined the Canadian Army in 1952, expecting to go to Korea. Instead, he manned coastal artillery (mostly very old naval guns) protecting the straights between Vancouver Island and the main land to protect Canada from the "Soviet Hordes".
I have tried to find out which forts were manned during the Korean War, but I have failed miserably.
He left the Army in 1972, I joined in 1970, and for a brief period we actually worked together, although I went Armour/
Nothing to do with this story, but interesting (to me)....
My father joined the Canadian Army in 1952, expecting to go to Korea. Instead, he manned coastal artillery (mostly very old naval guns) protecting the straights between Vancouver Island and the main land to protect Canada from the "Soviet Hordes".
I have tried to find out which forts were manned during the Korean War, but I have failed miserably.
He left the Army in 1972, I joined in 1970, and for a brief period we actually worked together, although I went Armour/
The Prince George has been outfitted as a hospital ship and is in or around Esquimalt at this moment ITTL.
In 1952 the batteries that were still active around Victoria were Mary Hill, with 3 x Mark 24-6 inch guns; Albert Head, with 3 x 9.2 inch guns; Belmont Battery, with one duplex 6 pounder gun, and (I think) Ogden Point Battery, also with one duplex 6 pounder gun. The 9.2 inch barrels were old, two were from the Signal Hill Battery and were made in the 1890s, but were in new high-angle mounts. None of the batteries were older than 1943. They were centrally controlled with radar. But the technology of the day was changing so fast that they were already obsolete. All the coastal artillery was deactivated in 1956.
Of the Batteries I mention above, Albert Head Battery is inside active CFB Albert Head, and is inaccessible to civilians. Ogden Point Battery is so gone I can find no trace of it. Belmont Battery is part of Fort Rodd Hill National Historic Site, and was renovated this year. Mary Hill Battery is abandoned in a military reserve, but is not even fenced. I have climbed all over it a dozen times and been inside the magazine complex tunnels a few times.
A very good history of the Fortifications around Victoria is a book called "Shoot, Shoot, Shoot," published by the friends of Fort Rodd Hill Society.
More pix of Mary Hill Battery.
The problem with that is the guns. They can probably relatively easy move the lighter 5.2 cm guns and machine guns to a new ship but the 4.1 inch guns are probably too heavy and bulky. Moving the ammo for the 4.1 inch guns is also probably too big a task in this sort of scenario. Perhaps if they had a friendly harbor to work in they could move the heavier guns but not in whatever isolated inlet they might be able to use. Maybe they could move one or two but not all of them.
My step moms dad volunteered to join the USN around the same time to avoid getting drafted. He ended up manning a foxhole in the Aleutian islands ready to face off against a Soviet invasion that never came. I struggle to think of a more awful posting.
Exactly. The cruisers lifespan is going to be very limited so their goal should be to do as much damage as possible in that limited span.
Are there any 4.1 guns on it? I thought it was only 5.2 and machine guns.
SMS Nurnberg's main armament was ten 4.1 inch guns. Each gun weighed nearly two tons so I doubt they can easily be transferred.
Nürnbergs current armament ITTL is 10 x 4.1" guns, 6 x 5.2 cm guns, and 4 machineguns mounted on the searchlight platforms. And a submerged 18" torpedo tube on each beam.
Prince Rupert's current armament is 2 x 5.2 cm guns (one reportedly damaged) 2 x 3.7 cm pom-poms, and 4 machineguns.
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These stubborn Russians
Aug 17, 1915. SMS Nürnberg, Prince Rupert Harbour.
Von Schönberg needed no wireless message to respond to the sea battle happening a kilometre away. He left his boarding party behind in their boat alongside the prize SS Hexham, and steered towards the sound of the guns. He had to resist the urge to go to full speed. Visibility was so low, Nürnberg could easily overshoot or collide with the enemy, or the Prince Rupert. As it was, the wake from Prince Rupert’s departure could still be seen when Nürnberg arrived into visible range. The enemy ship, saw Von Schönberg, was a Russian armed merchant cruiser, or armed merchantman, like a fleet supply ship. Black smoke was pouring from her stack as she worked up steam. The Anadyr had damage to her upperworks, and had small fires in places, but was still in seaworthy condition. She and Prince Rupert had been poking holes in each other with light guns.
Approaching the Russian from astern at a 45 degree angle, Nürberg could bring her two forward guns, one rear gun, and three broadside guns to bear. The range was about 150 meters, below point blank for naval guns. Anadyr’s deck guns traversed to face this new foe.
“Target superstructure. Fire!” ordered Von Schönberg
The six 10.5 cm guns fired as one. Explosions immediately saturated the upper deck of the Anadyr. Pieces of metalwork spiraled into the air, and scythed down the Russian gun crews. Bits splashed into the water between the ships. Some fragments landed on Nurnberg herself. Anadyr's life boats on the side facing Nurnberg were shot to pieces.
“Fire at will!” Von Schönberg ordered.
Nurnberg’s guns fired another salvo. All but one round struck home, causing great destruction. The mainmast fell over in slow motion. A number of secondary explosions burst on the after deck, as the ready ammunition for one of the deck guns went off all at once. A rifle bullet came through one of the bridge windows, then another. The flash of a deck gun firing came from the Anadyr’s foredeck. A solid shot round hit Nurnberg’s number one gun shield, and all on the bridge were knocked to the floor. Von Schönberg had lost his hat. He shook the glass from his hair. He saw the round had glanced off the gun shield, entered the bridge through a window and exited through the bridge roof. The helmsman was clearly dead, other men were injured. He heard and felt his ship fire another salvo. The surviving bridge crew rose to their feet and took their stations.
Nurnberg fired another salvo, more ragged this time as each gun crew loaded and fired at slightly different paces. Von Schönberg poked his head up, just in time to see Anadyr’s forward gun fire again. This shot passed between the forward guns, struck Nürnberg’s armoured conning tower on the deck below, and skipped away across the harbour to starboard. Muzzle flashes from rifles came from all over Anadyr’s twisted burning superstructure.
“These stubborn Russians are going to keep firing until the last one of them is dead! he yelled over the din of the battle. “Prepare to fire torpedo!”
Nürnberg maneuvered to bring to bear her port beam underwater torpedo tube.
“Fire torpedo!”
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTGER_PreWWII.php#45_cm_(17.7")_C/03_and_C/03_D
Von Schönberg needed no wireless message to respond to the sea battle happening a kilometre away. He left his boarding party behind in their boat alongside the prize SS Hexham, and steered towards the sound of the guns. He had to resist the urge to go to full speed. Visibility was so low, Nürnberg could easily overshoot or collide with the enemy, or the Prince Rupert. As it was, the wake from Prince Rupert’s departure could still be seen when Nürnberg arrived into visible range. The enemy ship, saw Von Schönberg, was a Russian armed merchant cruiser, or armed merchantman, like a fleet supply ship. Black smoke was pouring from her stack as she worked up steam. The Anadyr had damage to her upperworks, and had small fires in places, but was still in seaworthy condition. She and Prince Rupert had been poking holes in each other with light guns.
Approaching the Russian from astern at a 45 degree angle, Nürberg could bring her two forward guns, one rear gun, and three broadside guns to bear. The range was about 150 meters, below point blank for naval guns. Anadyr’s deck guns traversed to face this new foe.
“Target superstructure. Fire!” ordered Von Schönberg
The six 10.5 cm guns fired as one. Explosions immediately saturated the upper deck of the Anadyr. Pieces of metalwork spiraled into the air, and scythed down the Russian gun crews. Bits splashed into the water between the ships. Some fragments landed on Nurnberg herself. Anadyr's life boats on the side facing Nurnberg were shot to pieces.
“Fire at will!” Von Schönberg ordered.
Nurnberg’s guns fired another salvo. All but one round struck home, causing great destruction. The mainmast fell over in slow motion. A number of secondary explosions burst on the after deck, as the ready ammunition for one of the deck guns went off all at once. A rifle bullet came through one of the bridge windows, then another. The flash of a deck gun firing came from the Anadyr’s foredeck. A solid shot round hit Nurnberg’s number one gun shield, and all on the bridge were knocked to the floor. Von Schönberg had lost his hat. He shook the glass from his hair. He saw the round had glanced off the gun shield, entered the bridge through a window and exited through the bridge roof. The helmsman was clearly dead, other men were injured. He heard and felt his ship fire another salvo. The surviving bridge crew rose to their feet and took their stations.
Nurnberg fired another salvo, more ragged this time as each gun crew loaded and fired at slightly different paces. Von Schönberg poked his head up, just in time to see Anadyr’s forward gun fire again. This shot passed between the forward guns, struck Nürnberg’s armoured conning tower on the deck below, and skipped away across the harbour to starboard. Muzzle flashes from rifles came from all over Anadyr’s twisted burning superstructure.
“These stubborn Russians are going to keep firing until the last one of them is dead! he yelled over the din of the battle. “Prepare to fire torpedo!”
Nürnberg maneuvered to bring to bear her port beam underwater torpedo tube.
“Fire torpedo!”
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTGER_PreWWII.php#45_cm_(17.7")_C/03_and_C/03_D
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Driftless
Donor
I wondered about that too. The other side of that question, even if the torpedo doesn't go boom, might it poke an 18" hole+/- below the waterline in an unarmored ship?
Nope they tend to leave a big dent when the don't explode and in some case lodge to the ship's side and have to very carefully removed
Very true--though I seem to recall that USS Batfish sunk a merchant ship because the dud left a 21" hole in an old ship. Major exception, and I'd assume that an AMC isn't that dilapidated.