Hell the battle of Midway could be damn well considered ASB. The luck and chance of knocking out 4 Japanese carriers (3 of which had strike aircraft loading/refueling) while their CAP could damn well be ASB
The Rainbow. A World War One on Canada's West Coast Timeline
- Thread starter YYJ
- Start date
Wow, what a spirited defence! Thank you. Someone has been paying close attention to this, by now, very long tale.
I would add a couple of things:
Torpedo shooting for the Germans is 3 or 4 hits for 5 shots, and for the Canadians, so far, 1 hit for 3 live shots plus one misfire. First of all, the German torpedoes are WAY better than the Canadian ones. But the main deal is that the German torpedoes that certainly hit were all fired at extremely close range (`200m) from a slow moving cruiser at stationary ocean liners. The 2 torpedoes fired by Leipzig at Algerine were also fired at an anchored ship, but by a faster moving cruiser at 600-700m range. One missed and we don't know for sure if the second shot hit or missed. The German side-mounted tubes are much worse for aiming than the Canadian submarine bow and stern tubes.
German Torpedos 45cm C/03
Pre-World War II Torpedoes of Germany - NavWeaps
18-in Mark IV Torpedo (UK) - The Dreadnought Project
I am forced to agree that the crew situation aboard Nürnberg and the prizes is the hardest part to reconcile. Specifically, I believe that the crew numbers I have given are fine to barely run the ships in question, but it would be awfully hard to keep any normal watch system. I will be doing a big edit on this story once I have wound it up, and I have a solution for the crewing problem.
Last edited:
It is up to us now
Aug 21, 1355 hours. HMCS CC-1, Haro Strait, off Gooch Island.
HMCD ESQUIMALT TO HMCS CC-2 AND HMCS CC-1GERMAN CRUISERS REPORTED TURNING AT SATURNA ISLAND LIGHT SPLENDID SHOOTING ON PRINCESS RAIDER STOP
HMCS CC-2 TO HMCS CC-1 AM IN POSITION OFF BEWELL HARBOUR WILL ATTACK ON SURFACE STOP ADVISE POSITION YOURSELF OFF POINT FAIRFAX MORESBY ISLAND STOP WE CAN CATCH GERMANS IN HAMMER AND ANVIL ATTACK STOP
HMCS CC-1 TO HMCS CC-2 ACKNOWLEDGE AM CONCERNED ABOUT RANGE FROM CONCEALED POSITON AT FAIRFAX POINT FOR SURFACE ATTACK STOP DO NOT TRUST BOAT FOR SUBMERGED ATTACK STOP I SEE MORE CHANCE OF SUCCESS WITH VERY SHORT RANGE ATTACK FROM BEHIND GOOCH ISLAND STOP
HMCS CC-2 TO HMCS CC-1 AS YOU SEE FIT LT COMMANDER JONES HAD UTMOST CONFIDENCE IN YOUR ABILTY STOP GOOD WORK WITH THE PRINCESS CHARLOTTE STOP
Lieutenant Willie Maitland-Dougal had scarcely finished his successful torpedo attack on the Princess Charlotte, when his commander Lieutenant Keyes ordered him north to join in another ambush on the approaching pair of cruisers. He had witnessed his one torpedo hit take 30 feet off the bow of the stolen CPR liner. If the Charlotte did not sink outright, she was now hors de combat. He considered putting another torpedo into the stationary German to finish the job, but Lieutenant Keyes had called him north, and anyway, the 3 remaining torpedoes would best be saved for the cruisers of the East Asiatic Squadron.
Maitland-Dougal parked his submarine CC-1 in the deep water just south of Gooch Island, in Haro Strait. From this angle he could sight across the sand tombolo connecting Gooch Island proper to the unnamed islet to the east, and line up his firing solution on the German cruisers approaching from the north. The wireless had been screaming reports about the cruisers for some time now, and he was relived to have arrived at his chosen firing spot in time to catch his breath and size up the situation.
Lieutenant Keyes was correct that a hammer and anvil attack would be the deadliest threat the submarines in company could present: whereby the two submarines fired their torpedoes in a coordinated fashion at right angles to one another, so that a target turning to rake one set of torpedoes would put themselves broadside to the other attack. But Maitland-Dougal did not have faith in the torpedoes being able to hit anything as they reached the limit of their range, and Bedwell Harbour and Fairfax Point were almost 6000 yards apart. Lieutenant Keyes’ proposed attack would have the Germans doing most of the work running up on top of his torpedoes at a converging speed of 50 knots. This seemed to Maitland-Dougal like trying to hit a thrown rock with another thrown rock. He could close the range by making a submerged attack further up the channel, but less than 10 minutes ago, still elated from landing a successful blow on the Princess Charlotte, he had dived to avoid return fire from the Germans. The boat had suddenly got into its head to aim straight for the bottom, and almost killed them all, before Maitland-Dougal had ordered the electric motors to be run in full reverse to pull them back to the surface.
The way he saw it, his so-called submarine was really a slow conventional torpedo boat with the ability to occasionally hide underwater, if it happened to feel like it at the time. He intended to handle the vessel accordingly. And as for a torpedo attack, he would fire from as close a range as possible. Here behind Gooch Island, the distance to the American boundary line was scarcely 500 yards. At that range his torpedoes would still be running at 29 knots, and would have less opportunity to deviate from their aimed course at launch. That suited him fine.
When Maitland-Dougal had run up Haro Strait an hour ago he had noticed American sightseeing boats gathering alongside the patrolling Revenue Cutters. Now, if anything the pack of civilian vessels flying the Stars and Stripes was even denser. It looked like the Americans were having a garden party, out on the water. A recent arrival was an excursion steamer of 500 tons and over 150 feet long. He recognized her as the Whatcom, a local coaster familiar from when he had spent time down in Puget Sound, before the war. As the steamer passed heading northward, Maitland-Dougal could hear a combo on the boat deck playing ragtime tunes.
HMCS-CC2 TO HMCS CC-1 GERMANS IN SIGHT AM COMMENCING ATTACK GODSPEED
“Here we go!” announced Maitland-Dougal. “Prepare to fire tubes 3 and 4!”
Looking across the sand isthmus joining the two islands, Maitland-Dougal saw events rapidly unfold. Two German cruisers steamed down Boundary Pass at full speed, their Ensigns stretched out and copious amounts of coal smoke trialing out horizontally behind in the stiff breeze. He could not see Lieutenant Keyes, but the lead cruiser suddenly turned away sharply as if raking a torpedo attack. The German was running into American waters! American civilian boats steered off in all directions to avoid the German. The nearby Lighthouse Service vessel guarding the international boundary signaled in protest. He counted. If Lieutenant Keyes had fired, his torpedoes had by now missed.
“It is up to us now,” Maitland-Dougal said grimly. “Steady. Ready to launch on my command.” The lead German cruiser left American waters by the shortest path, due west, then heeled over as she turned south again at high speed. The cruiser was about to pass right in front of his position. The cruiser disappeared behind the small island. When her mast appeared past a lone fir tree on the point, Maitland-Dougal would issue the order. An American sailboat appeared beyond the point, then a power launch. A steamship’s mast appeared.
“Fire!” he yelled, “No! Hold Fire!” The mast was moving too slowly. It belonged to the Whatcom. The excursion steamer was right at the boundary, recklessly sailing through a war zone. Another batch of American small craft appeared, headed south as fast as their boats could go. Then the lead German cruiser’s mast appeared over the island. If his torpedoes went astray, he could easily sink an American vessel, with a hundred civilians on board. The German was steaming at least at 22 knots. He was more likely to hit the American. The Hun overtook the Whatcom, and passed beyond his engagement zone. The second German cruiser appeared. The Whatcom was still right there.
Maitland-Dougal cursed under his breath. “Hold fire and stand down!” he ordered. “Dive!” The lookout and helmsman shot down the hatch. Puffs of gun smoke rose from the second cruiser, and he heard the sound of rapid cannon shots, but he was already down in the conning tower. As the boat submerged, he could hear the sound of two sets of screws running fast over the sound of his own machinery. “Periscope up!”
The uncooperative boat sank deeper than commanded, then lurched back upwards. By the time the periscope broke the surface and Maitland-Dougal had lined up on the Germans, the trailing cruiser was 1000 yards to the south.
“Take us south, at periscope depth,” he ordered. As he watched, the cruisers shrank into the middle distance, then their outlines became indistinct as they entered the haze from the fires on the Saanich Peninsula. He swept a full circle around the submarine with his periscope, as his training had taught him to do before surfacing. To the east, the party continued on the American vessels, even though the spectacle had disappeared. To the north, 500 yards away, CC-2 ran south on the surface. Lieutenant Keyes stood atop the conning tower, a scarf blowing from his neck in the stiff breeze.
“Surface!” ordered Maitland-Dougal. This time the boat complied with a minimum of drama.
The two submarines fell into line abreast formation. Lieutenant Keyes was running his boat at close to 15 knots, rather than 13 knots nominal top speed, and Maitland-Dougal had to push his engines to maximum to keep up. The roaring of the diesels made shouting by loud-hailer impossible, so the captains communicated by Morse light.
THE GERMANS WILL BE OFF VICTORIA IN 45 MINUTES WE HAVE TO CATCH THEM UP, flashed Keyes.
WE WILL OVERHEAT THE DIESELS AT THIS SPEED, replied Maitland-Dougal.
SO BE IT THESE BOATS HAVE NO FURTHER USE THAN THIS FIGHT TODAY flashed Keyes in response. EVEN AT THIS SPEED WE WILL ARRIVE OFF VICTORIA HALF AN HOUR AFTER THE GERMANS
IF I MAY SIR, flashed Maitland-Dougal, I WILL WATCH THE TEMPETURA CLOSELY AND SLOW IF I MUST SO AS TO ARRIVE FULLY OPERATIONAL
USE YOUR DISCRETION CAPTAIN, flashed Keyes. THIS BOAT HAS ONE TORPEDO FORWARD AND ONE AFT
I HAVE TWO FORWARD ONE AFT, replied Maitland-Dougal.
USE THEM WELL, flashed Keyes. The boats travelled side by side for a few minutes, but then Maitland-Dougal got notice from the engineer that the engines were running hot. He ordered the diesels throttled back to 13 knots, and CC-2 began to pull away.
The submarines gradually entered the bank of haze as they passed the southern tip of Sidney Island. Sporadic explosions still appeared from the site of the burning explosives factory. Something was going on over on the American side, with some larger ships moving about off San Juan Island, but Maitland-Dougal could not see for the haze. Ahead, the outline of CC-2 became blurry, but after a quarter of an hour they had begun to pass out of the haze again and Boat One could be seen to be leading by about 1000 yards. Haze or no, even a surfaced submarine was hard to spot, though Maitland-Dougal.
East of Keye’s boat, another American patrol vessel was heading south on her side of the line, attempting to match speed with the Canadian submarines. This ship was USRC Itasca. She was big, almost 200 feet long, but old, and rigged like one of the Royal Navy sloops. Five miles to the south of her was a great patch of funnel smoke. Maitland-Dougal saw through his binoculars that this was an US Navy destroyer, with a numeral 12 painted on her side and 4 funnels very widely spaced in the American fashion, in the process of making a turn from a northern course back south. Further south again, close to the horizon at the entrance to Puget Sound, a much bigger ship with 4 funnels was raising its own smoke cloud.
Maitland-Dougal passed D’Arcy Island, the site of his successful ambush on the Princess Charlotte. He swept the water with his binoculars, but no sign of that ship could now be seen. As the tree lined slopes of the island drew by, his view directly south opened up, and he saw the distant German cruisers rounding Discovery Island and turning west, their smoke trails rising from the pair of triple funnels and blowing out horizontally across Haro Strait. Lieutenant Keyes in Boat 2 followed the cruisers, with a 2000 yard lead on his boat, but still 6 miles behind the Germans. The Hun disappeared behind the island.
“We are too late,” said Maitland-Dougal.
ALL SHIPS ALL SHIPS DOMINION WIRELESS STATION VICTORIA SHOTBOLT HILL HAS TWO GERMAN CRUISERS IN SIGHT THIS MOMENT ALL SHIPS ALL SHIPS
Maitland-Dougal received the wireless message and the message repeated several times. Then he heard, even over the sound of his diesels, the sound of naval gunfire. The wireless message broke off suddenly, but the sound of gunfire continued.
View from D'Arcy Island
www.google.ca
USRC Itasca
USS Prebble
en.wikipedia.org
HMCD ESQUIMALT TO HMCS CC-2 AND HMCS CC-1GERMAN CRUISERS REPORTED TURNING AT SATURNA ISLAND LIGHT SPLENDID SHOOTING ON PRINCESS RAIDER STOP
HMCS CC-2 TO HMCS CC-1 AM IN POSITION OFF BEWELL HARBOUR WILL ATTACK ON SURFACE STOP ADVISE POSITION YOURSELF OFF POINT FAIRFAX MORESBY ISLAND STOP WE CAN CATCH GERMANS IN HAMMER AND ANVIL ATTACK STOP
HMCS CC-1 TO HMCS CC-2 ACKNOWLEDGE AM CONCERNED ABOUT RANGE FROM CONCEALED POSITON AT FAIRFAX POINT FOR SURFACE ATTACK STOP DO NOT TRUST BOAT FOR SUBMERGED ATTACK STOP I SEE MORE CHANCE OF SUCCESS WITH VERY SHORT RANGE ATTACK FROM BEHIND GOOCH ISLAND STOP
HMCS CC-2 TO HMCS CC-1 AS YOU SEE FIT LT COMMANDER JONES HAD UTMOST CONFIDENCE IN YOUR ABILTY STOP GOOD WORK WITH THE PRINCESS CHARLOTTE STOP
Lieutenant Willie Maitland-Dougal had scarcely finished his successful torpedo attack on the Princess Charlotte, when his commander Lieutenant Keyes ordered him north to join in another ambush on the approaching pair of cruisers. He had witnessed his one torpedo hit take 30 feet off the bow of the stolen CPR liner. If the Charlotte did not sink outright, she was now hors de combat. He considered putting another torpedo into the stationary German to finish the job, but Lieutenant Keyes had called him north, and anyway, the 3 remaining torpedoes would best be saved for the cruisers of the East Asiatic Squadron.
Maitland-Dougal parked his submarine CC-1 in the deep water just south of Gooch Island, in Haro Strait. From this angle he could sight across the sand tombolo connecting Gooch Island proper to the unnamed islet to the east, and line up his firing solution on the German cruisers approaching from the north. The wireless had been screaming reports about the cruisers for some time now, and he was relived to have arrived at his chosen firing spot in time to catch his breath and size up the situation.
Lieutenant Keyes was correct that a hammer and anvil attack would be the deadliest threat the submarines in company could present: whereby the two submarines fired their torpedoes in a coordinated fashion at right angles to one another, so that a target turning to rake one set of torpedoes would put themselves broadside to the other attack. But Maitland-Dougal did not have faith in the torpedoes being able to hit anything as they reached the limit of their range, and Bedwell Harbour and Fairfax Point were almost 6000 yards apart. Lieutenant Keyes’ proposed attack would have the Germans doing most of the work running up on top of his torpedoes at a converging speed of 50 knots. This seemed to Maitland-Dougal like trying to hit a thrown rock with another thrown rock. He could close the range by making a submerged attack further up the channel, but less than 10 minutes ago, still elated from landing a successful blow on the Princess Charlotte, he had dived to avoid return fire from the Germans. The boat had suddenly got into its head to aim straight for the bottom, and almost killed them all, before Maitland-Dougal had ordered the electric motors to be run in full reverse to pull them back to the surface.
The way he saw it, his so-called submarine was really a slow conventional torpedo boat with the ability to occasionally hide underwater, if it happened to feel like it at the time. He intended to handle the vessel accordingly. And as for a torpedo attack, he would fire from as close a range as possible. Here behind Gooch Island, the distance to the American boundary line was scarcely 500 yards. At that range his torpedoes would still be running at 29 knots, and would have less opportunity to deviate from their aimed course at launch. That suited him fine.
When Maitland-Dougal had run up Haro Strait an hour ago he had noticed American sightseeing boats gathering alongside the patrolling Revenue Cutters. Now, if anything the pack of civilian vessels flying the Stars and Stripes was even denser. It looked like the Americans were having a garden party, out on the water. A recent arrival was an excursion steamer of 500 tons and over 150 feet long. He recognized her as the Whatcom, a local coaster familiar from when he had spent time down in Puget Sound, before the war. As the steamer passed heading northward, Maitland-Dougal could hear a combo on the boat deck playing ragtime tunes.
HMCS-CC2 TO HMCS CC-1 GERMANS IN SIGHT AM COMMENCING ATTACK GODSPEED
“Here we go!” announced Maitland-Dougal. “Prepare to fire tubes 3 and 4!”
Looking across the sand isthmus joining the two islands, Maitland-Dougal saw events rapidly unfold. Two German cruisers steamed down Boundary Pass at full speed, their Ensigns stretched out and copious amounts of coal smoke trialing out horizontally behind in the stiff breeze. He could not see Lieutenant Keyes, but the lead cruiser suddenly turned away sharply as if raking a torpedo attack. The German was running into American waters! American civilian boats steered off in all directions to avoid the German. The nearby Lighthouse Service vessel guarding the international boundary signaled in protest. He counted. If Lieutenant Keyes had fired, his torpedoes had by now missed.
“It is up to us now,” Maitland-Dougal said grimly. “Steady. Ready to launch on my command.” The lead German cruiser left American waters by the shortest path, due west, then heeled over as she turned south again at high speed. The cruiser was about to pass right in front of his position. The cruiser disappeared behind the small island. When her mast appeared past a lone fir tree on the point, Maitland-Dougal would issue the order. An American sailboat appeared beyond the point, then a power launch. A steamship’s mast appeared.
“Fire!” he yelled, “No! Hold Fire!” The mast was moving too slowly. It belonged to the Whatcom. The excursion steamer was right at the boundary, recklessly sailing through a war zone. Another batch of American small craft appeared, headed south as fast as their boats could go. Then the lead German cruiser’s mast appeared over the island. If his torpedoes went astray, he could easily sink an American vessel, with a hundred civilians on board. The German was steaming at least at 22 knots. He was more likely to hit the American. The Hun overtook the Whatcom, and passed beyond his engagement zone. The second German cruiser appeared. The Whatcom was still right there.
Maitland-Dougal cursed under his breath. “Hold fire and stand down!” he ordered. “Dive!” The lookout and helmsman shot down the hatch. Puffs of gun smoke rose from the second cruiser, and he heard the sound of rapid cannon shots, but he was already down in the conning tower. As the boat submerged, he could hear the sound of two sets of screws running fast over the sound of his own machinery. “Periscope up!”
The uncooperative boat sank deeper than commanded, then lurched back upwards. By the time the periscope broke the surface and Maitland-Dougal had lined up on the Germans, the trailing cruiser was 1000 yards to the south.
“Take us south, at periscope depth,” he ordered. As he watched, the cruisers shrank into the middle distance, then their outlines became indistinct as they entered the haze from the fires on the Saanich Peninsula. He swept a full circle around the submarine with his periscope, as his training had taught him to do before surfacing. To the east, the party continued on the American vessels, even though the spectacle had disappeared. To the north, 500 yards away, CC-2 ran south on the surface. Lieutenant Keyes stood atop the conning tower, a scarf blowing from his neck in the stiff breeze.
“Surface!” ordered Maitland-Dougal. This time the boat complied with a minimum of drama.
The two submarines fell into line abreast formation. Lieutenant Keyes was running his boat at close to 15 knots, rather than 13 knots nominal top speed, and Maitland-Dougal had to push his engines to maximum to keep up. The roaring of the diesels made shouting by loud-hailer impossible, so the captains communicated by Morse light.
THE GERMANS WILL BE OFF VICTORIA IN 45 MINUTES WE HAVE TO CATCH THEM UP, flashed Keyes.
WE WILL OVERHEAT THE DIESELS AT THIS SPEED, replied Maitland-Dougal.
SO BE IT THESE BOATS HAVE NO FURTHER USE THAN THIS FIGHT TODAY flashed Keyes in response. EVEN AT THIS SPEED WE WILL ARRIVE OFF VICTORIA HALF AN HOUR AFTER THE GERMANS
IF I MAY SIR, flashed Maitland-Dougal, I WILL WATCH THE TEMPETURA CLOSELY AND SLOW IF I MUST SO AS TO ARRIVE FULLY OPERATIONAL
USE YOUR DISCRETION CAPTAIN, flashed Keyes. THIS BOAT HAS ONE TORPEDO FORWARD AND ONE AFT
I HAVE TWO FORWARD ONE AFT, replied Maitland-Dougal.
USE THEM WELL, flashed Keyes. The boats travelled side by side for a few minutes, but then Maitland-Dougal got notice from the engineer that the engines were running hot. He ordered the diesels throttled back to 13 knots, and CC-2 began to pull away.
The submarines gradually entered the bank of haze as they passed the southern tip of Sidney Island. Sporadic explosions still appeared from the site of the burning explosives factory. Something was going on over on the American side, with some larger ships moving about off San Juan Island, but Maitland-Dougal could not see for the haze. Ahead, the outline of CC-2 became blurry, but after a quarter of an hour they had begun to pass out of the haze again and Boat One could be seen to be leading by about 1000 yards. Haze or no, even a surfaced submarine was hard to spot, though Maitland-Dougal.
East of Keye’s boat, another American patrol vessel was heading south on her side of the line, attempting to match speed with the Canadian submarines. This ship was USRC Itasca. She was big, almost 200 feet long, but old, and rigged like one of the Royal Navy sloops. Five miles to the south of her was a great patch of funnel smoke. Maitland-Dougal saw through his binoculars that this was an US Navy destroyer, with a numeral 12 painted on her side and 4 funnels very widely spaced in the American fashion, in the process of making a turn from a northern course back south. Further south again, close to the horizon at the entrance to Puget Sound, a much bigger ship with 4 funnels was raising its own smoke cloud.
Maitland-Dougal passed D’Arcy Island, the site of his successful ambush on the Princess Charlotte. He swept the water with his binoculars, but no sign of that ship could now be seen. As the tree lined slopes of the island drew by, his view directly south opened up, and he saw the distant German cruisers rounding Discovery Island and turning west, their smoke trails rising from the pair of triple funnels and blowing out horizontally across Haro Strait. Lieutenant Keyes in Boat 2 followed the cruisers, with a 2000 yard lead on his boat, but still 6 miles behind the Germans. The Hun disappeared behind the island.
“We are too late,” said Maitland-Dougal.
ALL SHIPS ALL SHIPS DOMINION WIRELESS STATION VICTORIA SHOTBOLT HILL HAS TWO GERMAN CRUISERS IN SIGHT THIS MOMENT ALL SHIPS ALL SHIPS
Maitland-Dougal received the wireless message and the message repeated several times. Then he heard, even over the sound of his diesels, the sound of naval gunfire. The wireless message broke off suddenly, but the sound of gunfire continued.
View from D'Arcy Island
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.ca
USRC Itasca
USRC Itasca
www.navsource.org
USS Prebble
USS Preble (DD-12) - Wikipedia
Last edited:
ferdi254
Banned
Marath every successful action has more or less wank attributes even on small level. I once spent some time in Nawlins to read the citation of the most decorated american servicemen and about half of what happened OTL would be seen as ASB or unbelievable wank. So saying it is a germanwank was not meant as criticism.
ferdi254
Banned
And comparing TTL to sealion is something where I could understand if the author took this as personal insult. He has shown all Canadians to do their duty, mostly keeping cool heads and even going over the top trying to fight the Germans sometimes up to the point of foolishness. He could have done differently not all persons finding themselves in a war suddenly turn into Nelsons.
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
I am following this thread, not because it is a GermanWank, but the level of detail in a subject (WW1 naval warfare) that I adore, and an area I know so little about, make it irresistible.
At some point the Leipzig & Nurnberg will be sunk / scuttled / interned - that is their fate (much as von Spee thought) - Germany will have no colonies left to supply them and a journey home is quite improbable.
Given I'm a Brit, my usual favourites involve the Grand Fleet soundly spanking the High Seas Fleet, but I do enjoy well written & researched threads even if the flavour is not my usual!
YYJ - as long as you are enjoying writing this thread, please carry on along the path that you think best.
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
I would also add that nothing so far seems jarringly ASB. The Canadians had little naval protection, something more that one member of the British Empire would find in the early days. The RN likes to think it can protect everywhere, but when war is on a global scale they find their assets are overstretched.
Driftless
Donor
Also.... it's worth remembering that while the telling of the tale has taken months to this point, within the story it's only been a few days since the start of the war and even fewer days since the Germans attacked British Columbia. ALL of the initiative to this point has been possessed by the Germans. Out of necessity, the Canadians have had to be in a reactive mode - to this point. In a location and a time of very limited electronic communication, information would be learned and shared slowly.
The story is well written. And reasearch is obvious, and well done. I do feel the Germans near constant good luck does turn it into a German wank of sorts but in all fairness for most part BC was pretty screwed if something like this happened. As others have noted the war has just started, and up till now the German ships have had the initiative. I expect the rainbow and the subs to live up to Lord Nelson's standards and seek revenge.
Considering in real terms Canada is still on a peace time footing, at this time, there will still be some remote parts of the country including some coastal locations that are as yet completely unaware that Canada is at war at all, let alone with whom! Therefore IMVHO whilst some of the German success might be improbable it is not that implausible given the circumstances. As to our author, kudos to him for his research, attention to detail and just plain gripping story telling. More of the same please.
marathag
Banned
Audie Murphy on _To Hell and Back_ left out the actions that he got Silver Stars for, and most of the other later stuff he did while suffering from malaria. Nobody would believe all the stuff he did, so watered it down, along with the massive PTSD he had from all that.
ferdi254
Banned
Hartman with 352 enemy aircraft shot down. The most important thing to remember is that for each one who got lucky and or or skillfully enough there there a lot (a large lot) that got killed.
And that is independent of the nation or the cause.
That‘s why I said that if I wanted to shout unicorn it would be that no(!) Canadian ITTL reacted with panic opposed to OTL 1942 USA.
IMHO yes it is a German wank but an extremely well researched and plausible one!
And that is independent of the nation or the cause.
That‘s why I said that if I wanted to shout unicorn it would be that no(!) Canadian ITTL reacted with panic opposed to OTL 1942 USA.
IMHO yes it is a German wank but an extremely well researched and plausible one!
@RelativeGalaxy7 did a pretty good job so I'll try to more succinct with my own take on it:
A pair of German cruisers raising hell on the West coast in 1914 and steaming unopposed into Canada's harbours is ASB? I'm sorry but no.
One should not underestimate how abysmally unprepared Canada was to the world wars. Honestly, although the Germans are probably running on a stoke of luck here, I don't think it is far-fetched to say all of this is actually possible. Historically, the Canadian federal government has always relied on others to assure national defence, from 1867 to the Second World war it was Britain, ever since it is the US. No-one ever dared spending the money needed to defend our coastlines even after the Forst World war! Don't expect us to be ready before it!
Instead of taking active measures and represent a useful asset in the defence of the Empire (looking at you Australia, good job mates!), Canada's government refrained from putting money in the military because it expected Britain to show up quickly and save the day. And when one government or another tried its hands at it, the next one would scrap the project(s) because it wasn't their idea. It seems no one considered the fact that the motherland might be busy elsewhere at the same time we needed backup...
Of course, once in war and given some time to prepare, we did very well, both in 1914 and 1939. But the fact remains that if we had ever been attacked directly, like in @YYJ 's story, the odds are we'd probably got our teeth puched out of our mouth.
If some readers are interested to see what happens to Canada's 'defences' when they come under attack by an elite-trained force, there is an historical example of that: the U-boat campaing in the Gulf of the St. Lawrence in 1942. The war had been raging for three years at that point and when the Kriegsmarine sent his subs up the river what happened? They sank about two dozen merchantmen and even some warships, without any losses. Of course the Navy and the Air Force tried to fight back the best they could but in the end they did not destroyed a single u-boot. The government's solution to this complete disaster? Close the St.Lawrence to civilian shipping! Yes! After that the supplies for Britain had to be sent by train to Halifax before embarking for the trans-atlantic route.
My conclusion? The Rainbow's story here is far from ASBland and I'm thankful our author is giving us such a compelling tale of Captain von Schönberg's exploits!
A pair of German cruisers raising hell on the West coast in 1914 and steaming unopposed into Canada's harbours is ASB? I'm sorry but no.
One should not underestimate how abysmally unprepared Canada was to the world wars. Honestly, although the Germans are probably running on a stoke of luck here, I don't think it is far-fetched to say all of this is actually possible. Historically, the Canadian federal government has always relied on others to assure national defence, from 1867 to the Second World war it was Britain, ever since it is the US. No-one ever dared spending the money needed to defend our coastlines even after the Forst World war! Don't expect us to be ready before it!
Instead of taking active measures and represent a useful asset in the defence of the Empire (looking at you Australia, good job mates!), Canada's government refrained from putting money in the military because it expected Britain to show up quickly and save the day. And when one government or another tried its hands at it, the next one would scrap the project(s) because it wasn't their idea. It seems no one considered the fact that the motherland might be busy elsewhere at the same time we needed backup...
Of course, once in war and given some time to prepare, we did very well, both in 1914 and 1939. But the fact remains that if we had ever been attacked directly, like in @YYJ 's story, the odds are we'd probably got our teeth puched out of our mouth.
If some readers are interested to see what happens to Canada's 'defences' when they come under attack by an elite-trained force, there is an historical example of that: the U-boat campaing in the Gulf of the St. Lawrence in 1942. The war had been raging for three years at that point and when the Kriegsmarine sent his subs up the river what happened? They sank about two dozen merchantmen and even some warships, without any losses. Of course the Navy and the Air Force tried to fight back the best they could but in the end they did not destroyed a single u-boot. The government's solution to this complete disaster? Close the St.Lawrence to civilian shipping! Yes! After that the supplies for Britain had to be sent by train to Halifax before embarking for the trans-atlantic route.
My conclusion? The Rainbow's story here is far from ASBland and I'm thankful our author is giving us such a compelling tale of Captain von Schönberg's exploits!
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I've seen brief mentions of the Gulf of St. Lawrence U-boat campaign before. They have been rare, and completely outnumbered by talk of the U-boat campaign along the US East Coast.
I am enjoying this story. Sometimes I find myself thinking about going up to BC to take a tour of the 1914 campaign sites. Then I have to remind myself that all this is fiction. The settlements are real of course, but there are no markers to what happened here when the raiders came. Oh, and if someone with good game-designing skills made a campaign game of this story, I would buy it.
My questions about the German successes have to do with how much they have been able to accomplish in the time available. Would the two cruisers have the resources and ability to accomplish all that they have? I am unfamiliar with any real-life examples of similar situations. It feels too much too fast, though I can also look at the map of the region and see that three ships moving fast could get to all those places. I did take a ferry from Seattle to Victoria and back one day 20 years ago; so I know how long it takes to cover that distance.
The cruisers are engaging Victoria's defenses now. They have two submarines on their tail, and Rainbow coming up from the other direction. Hostile warships blocking both retreat paths. And the Princess Charlotte nowhere in sight of the two subs. Did she sink? It doesn't seem like cruisers stopped to pick up survivors. It is unlikely she limped towards Victoria to link up with the cruisers. The US cruiser may be rescuing the princess, and might be observing the final showdown.
The Action really starts on August 16, and is currently at August 21, so 6 days inclusive.
In addition to the research of vessels, industry and location, there is a back end to this story of days upon days of work spent creating maps with the paths of various ships, with their positions marked out in half hour increments, at their various speeds, with different colours of highlighter pen for each different ship. When the Germans were up Observatory Inlet attacking Anyox this math included the incoming and outgoing tides. I also have pages and pages of logs of the positions of various ships hour by hour.
I have similar maps with the ranges and arcs of fire of shore batteries and search lights.
The Nürnberg running aground in Observatory Inlet, while the Brave Boys were simultaneously treed by a grizzly, as well as a device to create dramatic tension, was a trick I needed to do to create enough slack in the timeline for them to cross the finish line at almost the same time. There are a few other situations where I had to throw in an event to slow down one party or other to make them meet at the right point. I guess this could be called an "invisible hand" manipulating events, rather then invoking a POD and letting events run from that point like clockwork, and so reduce the degree of realism, but this is a work of fiction, and I am writing it.
Between the time Nürnberg and Princess Charlotte run down the fisheries protection launch in Fitz Hugh Sound, and the time the appear in Ucluelet Harbour, they disappear from the story for 30 hours. At that time they are out on the high seas, over the horizon, and need to average only 6 knots to arrive at their destination.
When the cruisers coaled, they did so at the rate of 100 tons per hour, which is the commonly accepted maximum rate of coaling for the period with the crew dedicated to only that. I have a spreadsheet counting every shell expended by the Nürnberg and Leipzig's main batteries. I have not done this for secondary batteries, but those shells were more plentiful, and have actually been fired less. The torpedoes are easier to count. Each cruiser started with five. Leipzig has fired 2 so far, Nürnberg has fired 3. The cruisers carried 12 Spandau guns as standard issue, and an unspecified amount of rifles and pistols. My reading tells me that German warships of the period had no dedicated marines aboard, but would figure on being able to use a third of their crews as landing parties.
The cruisers started out with a certain unspecified amount of explosives on board to use as scuttling charges for prize ships.Soon after landing at Anyox they looted three rail cars worth of dynamite from the mine magazine, and have been using those explosives very liberally up and down the coast.
There are lists of dead and wounded, and of accumulated ship damage, especially to Nürnberg.
The criticism that I have heard most, and that I think has some legitimacy, is that the crew allotments are stretched too far. I am pretty certain that all the vessels in question could be operated with the crews I have given them. In some cases they are bare skeleton crews. But Princess Charlotte can steam just fine with the position of Assistant Purser left vacant. The ability of the crews, particularly on the Princess Charlotte, but also Nürnberg, to fight, and treat wounded, and do damage control at the same time would be seriously impeded, or nonexistent. The crews would also need to make up for lack of personnel by giving up on sleep. I expect everyone would be dead tired . But this spree has been going on for only 6 days at full pace, from August 16 at Anyox to August 21 where events are currently, with a break of more than a day in the middle. The ability of everyone to get by on cat naps would diminish over time.
One place where the crew shortage played out was in the Naval Battle of Bamfield. The German gunners on SMS Galiano were much better than the Canadian gunners on CGS Malaspina, but the Germans could spare no crew for firefighting, and the Canadians could. So the fires spread more quickly on Galiano, leading to her early abandonment. That and the Galiano was only carrying a peacetime load of shells for her 6 pounder and ran right out of ammunition.
So the exploits of Von Schönberg and company are possible on paper. I leave it to the reader to decide if it works for them.
YYJ, you should expand this into a book. I’d absolutely buy it. The pacing, the excitement, the history... it’s really good.
A few weeks ago I was sitting on the Government wharf in Ucleulet with my love, and she told me to describe to her what happened in this spot in the story, and make it exciting! I have been inhabiting this alternate history version of my local surroundings for over a year now, and it does bleed over into my perceptions of the spaces. Just by the Uclelet Government wharf there is a 12 pdr. gun recovered from the wreck of HMCS Thiepval, sunk after going up on a rock in Barclay Sound. And I thought that should be a 6pdr. from CGS Galiano. At various points in the past summer I have been in Port McNeil and Sayward and Union Bay and Ladysmith, and any number of times in the remaining fortifications around Fortress Esquimalt. And a certain part of me is looking at the places from inside my storytelling.
HMCS Thiepval - Wikipedia
Will we ever get access to the maps of the ship routes? I would be very interested in taking a look at them.