The Q-BAM Improvement and Core Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Iori, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. Rac98 Member

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    Now that you have commented this Neneveh, if I'm not mistaken the Fiji archipelago is also further west than it should be, I will try to trace the International Line Date to confirm this, and the island of St. Lawrence in Alaska was not supposed to be divided between the hemispheres instead of being entirely on Russia's side?

    EDIT: Yes, Fiji is futher west. EDIT2: Well the Chukotka Peninsula...

    [​IMG] upload_2019-8-1_21-54-59.png
    [​IMG] upload_2019-8-1_22-7-3.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  2. Sharklord1 Well-Known Member

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    Jun 19, 2016
    Southern China Progress.png Inner Mongolia.png Gansu-Qinghai.png
    Progress in China, edited the Russian border around Inner Mongolia a bit, as well as first levels for some of the non-edited provinces. Now 18/31 administrative divisions are patched
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  3. Neneveh A female forum user. Yes, be afraid!

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    This has been such a recurring issue with QBAMs that I am personally shocked that after years of being an active thread nobody has bothered to fixed the longitudinal shifts. I do believe the center of the original QBAM was supposed to be 10 degrees West, however I think that through so many edits and renditions that this is no longer the case the further you get from this original center. I believe that this group that frequents this thread should decide whether to recenter it at 0, 0 or maintain the original 0, 10 W center and conform the landmasses from there.
     
  4. Frank Hart When Your Hometown Doesn't Feel Like Home

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    Not quite 10 degrees East, more like ~11.5 degrees East due to St. Lawrence Island.
     
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  5. Rac98 Member

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    Since the Bering Strait is not as strait as it should be, there is a possibility that the map edges have been artificially sharpened and the projection is correct, in which case the longitudes I drew are incorrect because they were based on size of the map (2650 pixels at the poles and 4972 pixels at the equator) using math to find the right positions of each meridian. Anyway the prime meridian passes exactly through Oslo which leaves the map centered at ~10.45 ° degrees east with the division of hemispheres at 170.55 ° and this meridian passes over St. Lawrence Island, so yeah this island is missplaced.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
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  6. Neneveh A female forum user. Yes, be afraid!

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    Why was the Prime Meridian placed at such a spot in the first place? To be quite frank, I seriously doubt anybody here knew the exact offset of the prime meridian to the centerline until it was finally brought up this week. People like me have been assuming for years that the centerline was this or that longitude and have made adjustments based on error. I seriously think we should consider defining the centerline as the Prime Meridian, for simplisity's sake, as I'm sure if we leave it where it is, mistakes will continue to be made.

    Oh, and @Frank Hart , thank you for pointing out that is misaligned East, not West.
     
  7. Drex Alférez de caballería

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    The main issue with the map is that it doesn't have a fixed projection, it's not equirectangular, mercator or whatever. Hence tracing latitudes and longitudes basing on the map itself will go wrong, specially around the edges. The exact center of the map doesn't seem to have changed noticeably since the first versions so we can assume that. If we make a straight line from the center of the map we can see it passes directly through Oslo (10º44'E). What happens here is that most maps featuring meridians use Greenwich as a base, resulting in that Q-BAM has an "error" of 10º44'E when compared to any normal coordinate map. Taking that map of Chukotka posted earlier (I'll repost it now), which uses the Greenwich Meridian as 0, we should move the line 10º44' E to have our Antimeridian aka Edge of the Map. This is the main reason why many haven't tried to properly locate islands, because the basemap is biased, and to do things well comparing to any coordinate map based on Greenwich we should add an extra 10º44'E.
    upload_2019-8-2_10-25-59.png
     
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  8. Frank Hart When Your Hometown Doesn't Feel Like Home

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    Apparently it also passes through the Pribilof Islands.

    So, where should the meridian be *if* we want to keep St. Lawrence Island intact without skewing the map? Not that we would like to redo everything and waste several years worth of work.
     
  9. Neneveh A female forum user. Yes, be afraid!

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    Well, Antarctica is on both edges of the map, as are to a lesser extent Alaska, Hawaii and Kiribati. If the argument for doing something wrong for almost two decades is simply because St. Lawrence Island or Chukchia would be split by the edge, then I would have to say the basis is pretty weak. Most people when they look at map already assume that the centerline is the Prime Meridian, and thus would expect some land somewhere to get hacked into two. As amateur (and possibly professional) cartographers we should make every effort to ensure that our maps are without error. Even if we dispense with the centerline=Prime Meridian idea and go with 10º44'E, we still have the issue of several landmasses being of kilter. When I did the southern Indian Ocean yesterday, these islands weren't just off by longitude, they were off by latitude as well (which should remain fixed no matter what the centerline is).

    EDIT: Probably the best approach we can do is make the centerline 11ºE. There shouldn't be many issues with that, however, everything would have to be shifted regardless of where the centerline is, so the "time saving" argument is invalid in my opinion.

    EDIT 2: I would also like to point out that even I thought the centerline on a QBAM was the Prime Meridian, all the way up until yesterday, and I've been working with these maps for five years! It's not like these maps are shared with a fine print or anything. Anybody who comes across a QBAM will automatically make assumptions about the layout, especially if it's reasonably close to where one would think the Prime Meridian is. I knew it passed through Africa around the Gulf of Guinea, and all QBAMs seem to match that description, so I never thought the centerline was off by more than 10 degrees. I seriously doubt anybody knew that without having to measure it first.

    EDIT 3: Unrelated, but I hate making more than one post in a row. When it comes to the map edge of the main file, I know the Supreme Leaders of this improvement thread really like SUCK V.3 or TOASTER or whatever it is that the main file is, but could you please use the X-2/3 color for the map edge? It's RGB 1-1-1. It blends in really well, and when it comes into contact with a black border (or in the far more chromatically pleasing and non-color sharing X-2/3, the coastline) of RGB 0-0-0.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  10. Drex Alférez de caballería

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    Alright, I tweaked a bit the outer edges of the map to make "space" 1 pixel wide at both the equator and the poles to make the map more centered. That probably means our equator is off by 1 pixel (or not, since the move was of one pixel, there's a 50% chance). Aswell, according to @Neneveh 's recommendation, the outer edges of the map have been changed to RGB 1-1-1. Also the scheme we're using is (unofficially) DCS, nothing to do with the fact that I made that scheme *cough*.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Rac98 Member

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    I think I ended up expressing myself badly, the coordinates I drew were based on the map width at the poles and the equator from the QBAM centerline knowing that it is ~ 10.44 degrees east of Greenwich, so much so that afterwards having finished making the longitudes I drew the greenwich line in red beside the 10th west meridian; These coordinates are meant to be used specifically in QBAM with the prime meridian being in Oslo, I think I have some blame for the confusion for not indicating this so well in the coordinates.

    As for the maps I used above, they are just a quick reference to show that both St. Lawrence and Fiji are not located where supposedly the International Date Line (aka 180 ° in relation to Greenwich, 170.56 ° east in relation to Oslo) passes the coordinates I drew. In those prints by Fiji and Chukotka the red line is the International Date Line meridian.

    As for the possibility that the map edges have been artificially sharpened that I mentioned is because of the space in the Bering Strait, I morphed both Chukotka and Alaska as they were in the center of the map to get a better view of that space.

    upload_2019-8-2_10-30-51.png upload_2019-8-2_10-31-29.png

    EDIT After seeing Drex's post: The coordinates still fit the map the same way, there is only the question of the height of the map not matching the latitudes, this I had commented when I had posted the coordinates two previous pages
     
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  12. Prof_Chemical Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2014
    where does one find uptodate historical coasts and lakes patches?
     
  13. Sharklord1 Well-Known Member

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    Jun 19, 2016
    Historical Changelog.png
    Hopefully this is what you're looking for?
     
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  14. Prof_Chemical Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2014
    more what lakes are man made, when were they made, when were islands made, when did parts of the coast get lost/ reclaimed etc
     
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  15. KolyenuKS not a farmer I think

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    is there a flooded qbam map?
     
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  16. Chris S Member

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    If I remember rightly, putting the meridian where it is (all the way back to the origin of worlda) was precisely so we wouldn't have a bit of Asia snipped off. It made for better usability (for example when filling in a colour for Russia, the far bit by the Bering Straits got included too).




    That's a very strong assumption. Because I for one never assumed it was the Prime Meridian (I remembered it wasn't anyway). I think it's far more likely that the average user on this site didn't give a single thought about the centre line being the Prime Meridian or not and just thought of it as merely the centreline. If any thoughts were given to lines of longitude or latitude it was most likely those lines that were used as the basis of borders (original and revised division of the New World between Spain and Portugal, lines used in Canada and the US etc) or the Tropics and Antarctic and Arctic Circles.

    True. Very much agreed regarding fixing stuff that is at the wrong latitude
     
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  17. BainTheCool Well-Known Member

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    Nov 9, 2016
    Part of the Ilemi Triangle border was very off so I fixed it.

    Ilemi Triangle Patch.png
     
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  18. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer! Gone Fishin'

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    upload_2019-8-5_11-24-19.png
    the municipalities in norrbotten county were way off.
     
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  19. Rac98 Member

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    Jun 5, 2019
    I am planning on finishing the indigenous bordergore of the Amazon...
    Using these sources: https://www3.socioambiental.org/geo/RAISGMapaOnline/

    Now just asking, is there any similar source like this about reservations or indigenous territories from other parts of the world?

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Drex Alférez de caballería

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    Ugh, it seems that Peru will be a clusterfuck.