Assuming Germany loses the war, the status of this Croatia will be very interesting. Will a last-minute jump to the Soviet or Allied side get it back the territory it had lost?
The Promise of a Clean Regime | An Independent State of Croatia TL
- Thread starter John_Smith
- Start date
I don't think such a small-scale POD like mine would cause butterflies of that size, so German defeat is pretty much inevitable in my opinion.
And that (survival of Croatia) by the allies is a major problem.
Allies: UK, USA and USSR all supported Yugoslavia. Even Yugoslavian units in USSR faught under the ensign of King Petar Karagyorgevich, not Tito`s red star. Without strong partisan movement you will have either Red Army marching through the country, or British landing in Dalmatia and then taking Zagreb.
Also, does Uzhice republic still happen in Serbia as scheduled ? What will happen with communist revolt in Croatia ?
General Ripper
Banned
What's Pavelić doeing at the moment?
About counties, I agree, but why not go into territorial reorganisation right now, foreign borders are not so important IMO, counties borders could be later redesigned.
About Vrbaska Banovina, I would actually, leave her as she is, with some Serb as acting ban there, as some sort of authonomy for the Serbs. After all, exactly that area was the main trouble spot for NDH in OTL.
One proposal- East Hercegovina area could IMO, be given to Italian Montenegro, because it was allmost entirely Serbian area ( Nevesinje, Gacko, Trebinje, Bileća ), since Montenegro allways claimed/wanted that area. That could be a bargaining chip in negotiations with Italy.
Still biding his time in Italy. His movement is slowly but surely breaking up, with many members leaving. One of them was very briefly mentioned in Chapter I.XV if you paid close attention, which is all I am going to disclose for now.
But the border with Italy is huge, and really unstable. Some kind of agreement needs to be made before Maček could really start working the issue out, at least in my opinion. I will make sure to post such an update if a good time arises during the following chapters.
Well, hindsight is 20/20... There was no way for Maček to know that the Vrbas Banovina would cause so many problems, which is why I don't think he would do that. Plus Gruić, despite being a military man, was of Orthodox Serbian origin, and was very much pro-Croatia IOTL, so he seems like a perfect pick for the time being.
Really? I had no idea Montenegro held any claims for that area. Are there any sources saying this? Because I was unaware there was such a thing as Montenegrin irredentism (not counting Dubrovnik).
We're still very far from having to worry about that stuff. We've not entered June 1941 yet. Everything will be disclosed when the time comes.
It is still too early to assume, but there is bound to be an TTL version of the Užice Republic, since Serbia at the time was a whole different beast when compared to Croatia.
General Ripper
Banned
Considering that area of Vrbas Banovina had largest concentration of Serbs within borders of Croatia, you don't have to be too smart to figure that they could potentially be a big problem.
Yes, Montenegro wanted to get Hercegovina ( or "New Hercegovina" ) from at least 1878, they entered that war with goal of getting Hercegovina ( and Serbia should get Bosnia ), after all, that area around Nikšić and west, was known as "Old Hercegovina", because they managed to take it from Turks in 19th Century...
http://www.fsksrb.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Stara-Hercegovina-11.jpg
https://sr.m.wikipedia.org/sr-el/Стара_Херцеговина
General Ripper
Banned
IIRC, Stalin offered to recognise NDH in exchange for allowing free work of Communist Party there? Any news about that? What are Tito and Kopinič doing?
http://www.telegram.hr/price/dr-bek...tave-ndh-i-neobican-polozaj-komunista-u-njoj/
http://www.dnevno.hr/vijesti/kultur...e-koji-su-znali-izboriti-svoju-drzavu-817296/
Considering that Germans and Soviets were, at the moment, still great allies, I don't think that Maček would refuse such offers ( even more when he had Gaži allready in Moscow ).
http://www.telegram.hr/price/dr-bek...tave-ndh-i-neobican-polozaj-komunista-u-njoj/
http://www.dnevno.hr/vijesti/kultur...e-koji-su-znali-izboriti-svoju-drzavu-817296/
Considering that Germans and Soviets were, at the moment, still great allies, I don't think that Maček would refuse such offers ( even more when he had Gaži allready in Moscow ).
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Maček could still have Pribićević garner support for the coalition in that area, especially with the upcoming election.
I'll definitely keep that in mind, thanks.
Oh... looks like I goofed up. Big time. I'll make sure to rewrite chapter I.XIV as soon as possible. Thanks for this information, though, I never knew there was even a chance for that happening IOTL.
II.I | Go To War Again, Blood Is Freedom's Stain - June 1, 1941
7:00 AM, Zagreb, Republic of Croatia
Creaking. That is all August Košutić heard as Vladko Maček nervously walked in circles around his office. The clock ticked in the background, further agitating the older man.
„Your Excellency, please. Take a seat. Everything will be alright.“
„How, August, how? It has been three hours and we are still awaiting a reply.“
„That is the norm, though. Military operations cannot be finished in a flash. We must remain patient.“
„What if we don't succeed?“
„We will, Your Excellency. I have faith in our Home Guardsmen. They are well aware of the significance of their mission, and with guidance from Generals Kvaternik, Štancer and Laxa I am sure they will accomplish what they have set out to do.“
„We have just started a war against the second strongest Axis nation! If we are not saved by the Reich then we will all hang in Piazza del Popolo in less than a month!“
„The element of surprise is on our side, Your Excellency. We have the knowledge of the terrain, and we have the support of the people. Italy will not win. We will make it through all this, I assure you.“
Maček just nodded blankly, still uncertain of his nation's meager chances of success.
„It has been a long time since you've had some proper sleep, Your Excellency. I suggest you rest while we wait to receive any information. Ivo will replace you until then.“
„…Alright.“
Košutić was surprised that the Ban relented, but he was grateful nonetheless. He proceeded to drink the rest of his whiskey before leaving the office on his quest to find Viceban Krbek.
SECTOR CENTER - 9:10 AM, Knin, Republic of Croatia
„Colonel Šimić! Have you found the Chetnik yet?“
„No, sir. I am afraid he ran away with the rest of the Greens [1].“
„That's a shame… And the countryside? Is it secure?“
„My men are working on it as we speak, sir. For now there hasn't been a sign of rebel activity.“
Slavko Kvaternik let out a sigh of relief.
„Good, that's good.“
„May I know if there has been any information from Sectors North and South [2], sir?“
„Of course you may, Colonel. Sadly there has been no information from Generals Štancer and Laxa, but if Italian defenses there are as weak as they were here then I am sure they are successful.“
„Thank you, sir.“
„I believe it is time to tell your men that Operation Zvonimir [3] is a resounding success. They need some good news after all the effort they've put in today.“
SECTOR NORTH - 9:25 AM, liberated Perušić, Republic of Croatia
„God damn it… This is far over the limit…“
Slavko Štancer scratched the back of his head, clearly irritated by the information he just received.
„Two hundred casualties is still an acceptable number, sir.“
„Not at all, commander Šolc! If we keep going like this, by the time we push to the coast we will have only ten men left standing!“
„We must keep going, though. We can't stop now, we've barely started, sir.“
SECTOR SOUTH - 10:00 AM, field near Imotski, Republic of Croatia
Bullets kept raining upon them, filling the quiet plain with uneasy noise. Commander Đuro Dragičević's voice was barely heard among all the gunfire and screams and whimpers of the wounded.
„We must keep going forward, we're almost there!“
„Come on, Makarska shall soon be ours!“
11:30 AM, Zagreb, Republic of Croatia
Ivo Krbek tapped his fingers against the wooden desk, waiting for the telephone to ring. He poured another pint of the brown alcoholic liquid inside his glass before downing it at once. His throat already numb from the amount of consumed fiery water, he reclined back into his increasingly uncomfortable chair. He tried to doze off a few times but the ever-increasing excitement kept him from doing so. He read through the papers that the Ban left in his workplace.
Before he could make a mental judgment on the boring scraps he held in his hand, Minister Kemfelja barged through the door, making Krbek jump out of his seat, feeling a mix of surprise and unexpected fear.
„Your Excellency! I have incredibly important news to say!“
„Well, then, spit it out, Minister!“
„General Kvaternik's assumptions were correct! Operation Zvonimir has been successfully concluded, while Operations Littoral [4] and Hajduk [5] are still in progress! As far as I am aware, casualties in all sectors are very low and enemy resistance almost nonexistent.“
Ivo Krbek could not help but smile at the optimistic news, his grin almost stretching from ear to ear.
„That's… those are incredible news, Minister. Is there any danger to Zagreb right now?“
„No, oddly enough. The defense system built from Samobor to Ogulin is untouched at the moment. My assumption is that Regio Esercito will retaliate either tonight or tomorrow. The strength of the attack, though, is anyone's guess.“
„I take it the evacuation of the capital is unnecessary, then?“
„Indeed, there is little-to-no chance of an Italian breakthrough. Croatian constables and the Home Guard battalions there will make sure to stomp them out.“
„Excellent, make sure to keep either Ban Maček or me posted, depending on who is present here.“
„I shall, Your Excellency.“
And with that Đuka Kemfelja left the room, but not before bumping into Vladko Maček, who was just entering, his four hours of sleep doing wonders for him, judging by smaller bags under his eyes and his general composure, which was straightened and strong, a stark contrast to his earlier hunched over, almost defeated one. He smiled when after seeing his Viceban's happy face, sensing good news to come.
[1] The Greens (Zelembaći) is the nickname Croats use for Regio Esercito units, due to the color of their uniforms. The origin of the nickname is most likely derogatory, considering that the term is the Croatian name for the European Green Lizard native to the area that Italy has occupied.
[2] The front against Italy is divided into three sectors: North [Sektor Sjever] (covering everything from Ogulin to Gračac), Center [Sektor Centar] (from Gračac to Sinj) and South [Sektor Jug] (from Sinj to Gacko).
[3] Operation Zvonimir (Operacija Zvonimir) was named after the legendary Croatian king Dmitar Zvonimir whose capital was in Knin (primary objective of the operation). Fun fact: according to a very popular myth, King Zvonimir was assassinated by his own people in 1089 for intending to go to war along with Alexios I Komnenos against the Seljuk Turks. However, right before dying from his wounds, he cursed his own people, saying that he sincerely hopes Croats will never have a lord of their own tongue, but will always be subject to those of a foreign one.
[4] Operation Littoral (Operacija Primorje), primary objective: pushing Italians to the sea, liberation of occupied territory from Novi (Vinodolski) to the Zrmanja river.
[5] Operation Hajduk (Operacija Hajduk) was named after hajduks - guerilla fighters against the Ottoman rule (from 16th to 18th century) who gained notoriety for their preying on local representatives, as well as local merchants and travelers, which is why the word gained such negative connotation, while in Balkan folkloric tradition they are described as Robin Hood types who targeted rich Ottomans and Austrians to give their plunder to the poor. Imotski (one of the operation's main objectives, together with Makarska) was the birthplace of two such men: Ivan Bušić and Martin Pavlović Zažabac.
Infobox stuff: Stermizza and Tenin are Italian names for Strmica (village close to Knin) and Knin.
I couldn't find any kind of information as to who led the Italian garrison in Knin IOTL, so Erardo Massi is my original idea, while Žarko Novaković was a member of the Chetnik-operated Dinara Division IOTL (if this Serbian Wikipedia page is to be believed) who doesn't have any special deeds to his name, but his name had a good ring to it.
Creaking. That is all August Košutić heard as Vladko Maček nervously walked in circles around his office. The clock ticked in the background, further agitating the older man.
„Your Excellency, please. Take a seat. Everything will be alright.“
„How, August, how? It has been three hours and we are still awaiting a reply.“
„That is the norm, though. Military operations cannot be finished in a flash. We must remain patient.“
„What if we don't succeed?“
„We will, Your Excellency. I have faith in our Home Guardsmen. They are well aware of the significance of their mission, and with guidance from Generals Kvaternik, Štancer and Laxa I am sure they will accomplish what they have set out to do.“
„We have just started a war against the second strongest Axis nation! If we are not saved by the Reich then we will all hang in Piazza del Popolo in less than a month!“
„The element of surprise is on our side, Your Excellency. We have the knowledge of the terrain, and we have the support of the people. Italy will not win. We will make it through all this, I assure you.“
Maček just nodded blankly, still uncertain of his nation's meager chances of success.
„It has been a long time since you've had some proper sleep, Your Excellency. I suggest you rest while we wait to receive any information. Ivo will replace you until then.“
„…Alright.“
Košutić was surprised that the Ban relented, but he was grateful nonetheless. He proceeded to drink the rest of his whiskey before leaving the office on his quest to find Viceban Krbek.
SECTOR CENTER - 9:10 AM, Knin, Republic of Croatia
„Colonel Šimić! Have you found the Chetnik yet?“
„No, sir. I am afraid he ran away with the rest of the Greens [1].“
„That's a shame… And the countryside? Is it secure?“
„My men are working on it as we speak, sir. For now there hasn't been a sign of rebel activity.“
Slavko Kvaternik let out a sigh of relief.
„Good, that's good.“
„May I know if there has been any information from Sectors North and South [2], sir?“
„Of course you may, Colonel. Sadly there has been no information from Generals Štancer and Laxa, but if Italian defenses there are as weak as they were here then I am sure they are successful.“
„Thank you, sir.“
„I believe it is time to tell your men that Operation Zvonimir [3] is a resounding success. They need some good news after all the effort they've put in today.“
SECTOR NORTH - 9:25 AM, liberated Perušić, Republic of Croatia
„God damn it… This is far over the limit…“
Slavko Štancer scratched the back of his head, clearly irritated by the information he just received.
„Two hundred casualties is still an acceptable number, sir.“
„Not at all, commander Šolc! If we keep going like this, by the time we push to the coast we will have only ten men left standing!“
„We must keep going, though. We can't stop now, we've barely started, sir.“
SECTOR SOUTH - 10:00 AM, field near Imotski, Republic of Croatia
Bullets kept raining upon them, filling the quiet plain with uneasy noise. Commander Đuro Dragičević's voice was barely heard among all the gunfire and screams and whimpers of the wounded.
„We must keep going forward, we're almost there!“
„Come on, Makarska shall soon be ours!“
11:30 AM, Zagreb, Republic of Croatia
Ivo Krbek tapped his fingers against the wooden desk, waiting for the telephone to ring. He poured another pint of the brown alcoholic liquid inside his glass before downing it at once. His throat already numb from the amount of consumed fiery water, he reclined back into his increasingly uncomfortable chair. He tried to doze off a few times but the ever-increasing excitement kept him from doing so. He read through the papers that the Ban left in his workplace.
Before he could make a mental judgment on the boring scraps he held in his hand, Minister Kemfelja barged through the door, making Krbek jump out of his seat, feeling a mix of surprise and unexpected fear.
„Your Excellency! I have incredibly important news to say!“
„Well, then, spit it out, Minister!“
„General Kvaternik's assumptions were correct! Operation Zvonimir has been successfully concluded, while Operations Littoral [4] and Hajduk [5] are still in progress! As far as I am aware, casualties in all sectors are very low and enemy resistance almost nonexistent.“
Ivo Krbek could not help but smile at the optimistic news, his grin almost stretching from ear to ear.
„That's… those are incredible news, Minister. Is there any danger to Zagreb right now?“
„No, oddly enough. The defense system built from Samobor to Ogulin is untouched at the moment. My assumption is that Regio Esercito will retaliate either tonight or tomorrow. The strength of the attack, though, is anyone's guess.“
„I take it the evacuation of the capital is unnecessary, then?“
„Indeed, there is little-to-no chance of an Italian breakthrough. Croatian constables and the Home Guard battalions there will make sure to stomp them out.“
„Excellent, make sure to keep either Ban Maček or me posted, depending on who is present here.“
„I shall, Your Excellency.“
And with that Đuka Kemfelja left the room, but not before bumping into Vladko Maček, who was just entering, his four hours of sleep doing wonders for him, judging by smaller bags under his eyes and his general composure, which was straightened and strong, a stark contrast to his earlier hunched over, almost defeated one. He smiled when after seeing his Viceban's happy face, sensing good news to come.
*****
[1] The Greens (Zelembaći) is the nickname Croats use for Regio Esercito units, due to the color of their uniforms. The origin of the nickname is most likely derogatory, considering that the term is the Croatian name for the European Green Lizard native to the area that Italy has occupied.
[2] The front against Italy is divided into three sectors: North [Sektor Sjever] (covering everything from Ogulin to Gračac), Center [Sektor Centar] (from Gračac to Sinj) and South [Sektor Jug] (from Sinj to Gacko).
[3] Operation Zvonimir (Operacija Zvonimir) was named after the legendary Croatian king Dmitar Zvonimir whose capital was in Knin (primary objective of the operation). Fun fact: according to a very popular myth, King Zvonimir was assassinated by his own people in 1089 for intending to go to war along with Alexios I Komnenos against the Seljuk Turks. However, right before dying from his wounds, he cursed his own people, saying that he sincerely hopes Croats will never have a lord of their own tongue, but will always be subject to those of a foreign one.
[4] Operation Littoral (Operacija Primorje), primary objective: pushing Italians to the sea, liberation of occupied territory from Novi (Vinodolski) to the Zrmanja river.
[5] Operation Hajduk (Operacija Hajduk) was named after hajduks - guerilla fighters against the Ottoman rule (from 16th to 18th century) who gained notoriety for their preying on local representatives, as well as local merchants and travelers, which is why the word gained such negative connotation, while in Balkan folkloric tradition they are described as Robin Hood types who targeted rich Ottomans and Austrians to give their plunder to the poor. Imotski (one of the operation's main objectives, together with Makarska) was the birthplace of two such men: Ivan Bušić and Martin Pavlović Zažabac.
Infobox stuff: Stermizza and Tenin are Italian names for Strmica (village close to Knin) and Knin.
I couldn't find any kind of information as to who led the Italian garrison in Knin IOTL, so Erardo Massi is my original idea, while Žarko Novaković was a member of the Chetnik-operated Dinara Division IOTL (if this Serbian Wikipedia page is to be believed) who doesn't have any special deeds to his name, but his name had a good ring to it.
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General Ripper
Banned
I have to say that I'm pretty surprised with this attack on Italians. Not too smart move IMHO. Not quite sure about plausability... Because army isn't ready yet for conflict with Italians and also, they have scheduled diplomatic meeting with them in June, so I would expect any military conflict happening AFTER that. This way, the Italians could accuse us of treachery because attacking them during negotiations...
About hajduks, I'm surprised that you forgot Andrija Šimić- the last hajduk.
About hajduks, I'm surprised that you forgot Andrija Šimić- the last hajduk.
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What would be German response on this?
Also not really an expert on the region but enjoying this.
Also not really an expert on the region but enjoying this.
Maček really had no choice when you think about it. Ciano, already enraged by Košutić's constant refusals, essentially ended the negotiations (Chapter I.XVI), because the way he told Košutić about the Rome ceremony (scheduled for June 2) could be understood as "no more pesky negotiations, you either accept whatever we come up with or face our wrath"
Really good pick, however in my explanation I only wrote down hajduks who were born in Imotski (thus justifying the name of the operation), but Andrija Šimić seems like a really fitting name for one of People's Uprising Regiments, which I'll definitely use later.
You can only imagine how someone needing peace and quiet for planning the biggest land invasion of all time will feel like when those two important factors disappear.
Thanks, man! Really means a lot. I'm glad my work is making people interested in this often-overlooked part of the world during WW2.
General Ripper
Banned
About Šimić, maybe he isn't born in Imotska krajina, but he wasn't born very far from it. Just a few kilometers across the border...
Hmm, I would have thought that Maček will try to get every day that he can without open conflict with the Italians, to organise military and establish control in state...
Close, but not quite. Besides, Šimić's adventures and discontent inspired the Gabela rebellion, part of the Herzegovinian Uprising against the Ottoman rule, making him more fitting for a PU Regiment. Imotski is not a part of Herzegovina (which was the main place where Šimić operated) so I still think the two mentions above stand without a need for correction.
Overt feelings of confidence and conceit from the General Staff certainly didn't help matters (S Kvaternik most of all), but they planted the seed of confidence in Maček that made him decide that waiting is not a viable option, especially with how the Monfalcone meeting went.
Sorry, but I agree, war with Italy sounds unrealistic to me. Maček and his leadership would be rounded up and shot by local german garrison within hours. Also, Italians would most definitely used Ustasha as a pressure against Maček, similar to Arrow Cross Party in Hungary or Iron Guard in Romania.