What was the evolution of the civil rights of Women LGBT folks and racial minorities like under this socialist regime?
Generally speaking, as of the 1950s, the Cooperative Commonwealth tends to be better on civil rights than its OTL counterpart, but it's still far from perfect. Women were guaranteed equal voting rights from the get-go in the CC constitution due to feminist groups and ideas playing a role within the People's Party and SLP prior to the Second American Revolution, and women have also seen gains a number of ways, including greater involvement in government (as of 1957, the CC has already elected two women presidents, and various women have been elected to a variety of national and local positions), the armed forces, and the labor force. Workplace democracy has also given women greater opportunities to gain more workplace protections and higher wages, so while it still exists, the pay gap is considerably smaller ITTL, and paid maternity leave is pretty common, although its implementation has mostly been on a local level as opposed to federally. On the other hand, abortion rights aren't really on the national radar at this point (although some republics have passed laws loosening abortion restrictions), divorce rights are still limited, and a lot of socially conservative attitudes continue to encourage women to be housewives, although this latter point in particular varies from region to region, depending on what local politics look like. The SLP tends to be more progressive on feminist issues whereas the DCP has largely absorbed the socially conservative elements of American society, and the People's Party just hovers in the middle for now. LGBTQ rights are interesting ITTL, because they weren't really an issue with much focus throughout the CC's early history, but the Baldwin court ruled that same-sex marriages were constitutional in Kentucky v. Rustin in 1938, thereby eliminating restrictions on same-sex marriage and suddenly making the topic very salient. LGBTQ rights are pretty controversial, even within internal party ranks (most notably, the SLP has found itself divided between anarcho-syndicalists aligned with Emma Goldman and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, who support equal LQBTQ protections and rights, and Christian anarchists aligned with Dorothy Day, who have been unwilling to support protections for same-sex couples and have excluded family aid programs from including same-sex households), so protections vary from republic to republic, but broadly speaking, protections against discrimination based on sexuality are few and far between outside of anarcho-syndicalist strongholds, typically cities in the Northeast and Southeast. Transgender rights are effectively nonexistent in the CCA as of the 1950s and aren't really discussed on a national stage outside of small anarchist circles.What was the evolution of the civil rights of Women LGBT folks and racial minorities like under this socialist regime?
Nope, it’s not dead, I’m just busy with a lot of personal stuff at the moment, so all of my TLs are taking way longer to get updated than I would like. Happy to hear that you’re interested in seeing more!Is this timeline dead? It hasn't passed the six months yet so I still believe it's already to ask this here. If not I sincerely apologize. I really enjoyed reading this timeline a long time ago and am excited to see that it was revived earlier this year. I would like to see this continued if possible.
Alright I just wanted to make sure. This is a great timeline so far so I can't wait to see it continued. Just wondering though, have you established a list of Presidents of the Cooperative Commonwealth up to the present day?Nope, it’s not dead, I’m just busy with a lot of personal stuff at the moment, so all of my TLs are taking way longer to get updated than I would like. Happy to hear that you’re interested in seeing more!
I have a vague idea of what the history of this TL looks like up to the present day, and there's some particularly notable presidents and their policies that I have in mind, but beyond that, I don't have a specific list of presidents, mainly because I find that my ideas for what I want a TL to look like change over time, especially once I start doing research for a particular event, so I don't like setting a lot of details in stone.Alright I just wanted to make sure. This is a great timeline so far so I can't wait to see it continued. Just wondering though, have you established a list of Presidents of the Cooperative Commonwealth up to the present day?
That's good. I do have a few questions though, what date are Cooperative Commonwealth presidential elections held since the President takes office on July 4th (I think it was mentioned that campaigning typically began in February so perhaps sometime in May like May Day)?I have a vague idea of what the history of this TL looks like up to the present day, and there's some particularly notable presidents and their policies that I have in mind, but beyond that, I don't have a specific list of presidents, mainly because I find that my ideas for what I want a TL to look like change over time, especially once I start doing research for a particular event, so I don't like setting a lot of details in stone.
General elections are held on the first Tuesday of March. The basic gist is that the Cooperative Commonwealth wanted to hold its first elections pretty quickly after the ratification of its constitution in February 1905, and the transition period between elections and the inauguration of their victors is roughly four months, the same period as the length between elections and inauguration in the United States prior to the passage of the Twentieth Amendment. Why July 4th in particular was chosen as the inauguration date should be pretty apparent.That's good. I do have a few questions though, what date are Cooperative Commonwealth presidential elections held since the President takes office on July 4th (I think it was mentioned that campaigning typically began in February so perhaps sometime in May like May Day)?
Ooh, an alternate history within an alternate history. I like it.If Olson's VP Norman Thomas had been elected in his own right in 1933 would he support any of the policies put into place by Lucy Parsons from 1933 to her death in 1944 ITTL?
Debs would've had his back to the wind a bit more in terms of his domestic agenda than Baldwin, continuing his policies of building up the CCA's domestic economic capabilities while centrally planning infrastructure improvements and industrialization. Debs was also a lot more hawkish than Baldwin, so he'd likely focus on a military buildup and deploy troops directly in the Argentine Civil War. Going into the 1925, it's hard to say what the outcome would be, assuming Debs runs for a fourth term. While he'd have a lot of accomplishments to boast about, he'd also have to deal with an increasingly powerful German Empire on the international stage, especially after Russia joins the European Association, and voters would be getting sick of the Populists after twenty sustained years of power. If Debs loses re-election, it's likely to Emma Goldman, whose administration would basically be that of Parsons' but a decade earlier, and if he wins re-election, you'd get more of the same from the past twelve years, but with a particular focus on interventionism in the Imperial Revolutionary War.What if Debs had been elected to a third term in 1921? What would happen to the 1925 election and subsequent ones? Similar results or radically different?
Sinclair's biggest problem would be that he'd be dealing with a Socialist Laborite-dominated legislature immediately upon taking office. He could get some stuff forming agricultural cooperatives passed, but beyond that, Sinclair would be a pretty ineffective president, not to mention that the Red Recession would still occur by the end of his administration. Sinclair would lose in 1949, but he'd be succeeded by a Socialist Laborite, given backlash to the Populists and Long probably not wanting to primary a sitting president if his party's already not favored to win. The SLP candidate would ideologically be in the same vein as Parsons and Day, which means that the Parsons Revolution isn't undone and, critically, a more dovish foreign policy approach to the First Great Struggle is taken, which means a war between America and Germany doesn't occur for the time being.Also would Upton Sinclair be a successful C.C. President if he had won in 1945 ITTL or would he suffer the same fate as Dorothy Day and lose re-election to Huey Long in 1949?
This is all written in greater detail in the constitution of the Cooperative Commonwealth if you're interested, but the CCA's General Congress consists of an All-Regional Congress, which consists of delegates elected to represent the country as a whole and has about the same number of members as the House of Representatives in OTL, and an All-Industrial Congress, which consists of delegates elected to represent worker councils and is a bit smaller, albeit still pretty close, in size to the ARC. The Supreme Court still has nine justices, but the big difference here is that they're appointed to single terms of ten years.And finally what are the official names of the Cooperative Commonwealth houses of Congress and how large are they (also how large is the Supreme Court if the size has been changed post-1904)?
Interesting. I do have some questions though, if that's alright.
Absolutely! I'm happy to answer any questions regarding this TL.Interesting. I do have some questions though, if that's alright.
Basically, temperance gets absorbed into the wider leftist and progressive movements of the 19th Century ITTL that ultimately overthrow the United States in the Second American Revolution. The partisan divisions on temperance are a bit more muddled at first (in OTL, the People's Party was pretty anti-prohibition), however, temperance reformers gradually align themselves with American leftists, with the Women's Christian Temperance Union most notably backing the Populists. The Socialist Labor Party never endorses prohibition, however, the People's Party starts to become more and more prohibitionist, and by the 1890s, there's a mentality in the socialist movement, regardless of whether or not you're pro-prohibition, that alcohol is an "opiate of the masses" that keeps the proletariat in line. By the time of the Second American Revolution, the temperance movement has been emboldened rather than weakened, which leads to the First Amendment to the CC constitution banning the sale, manufacture, or transportation of alcoholic beverages in 1918. The Socialist Labor Party, which is more socially libertarian and is more popular amongst urban communities of European immigrants, never endorses prohibition to the same extent as the Populists or Progressives, however, even it has some prominent members that are supportive of the First Amendment. What really bolsters prohibition ITTL to the point that it's never overturned is the First Great Struggle against Germany, with American propaganda associating alcohol with the German Empire, capitalism, and exploitation of the working class. By the end of the 1920s, the average American views alcoholic beverages as the poisonous drink of choice of capitalist Germany while root beer is considered the drink of choice in the socialist Cooperative Commonwealth, and repealing prohibition becomes a very fringe stance supported only by the anarchist wing of the Socialist Laborites. This also gives prohibition a bit more of an adversarial ideological angle, with illegal moonshining and speakeasy operations viewed as counterrevolutionary and treasonous, especially given that the bulk of these illegal operations are structured more like a capitalistic hierarchical business as opposed to being democratic worker councils. Things get a bit interesting with the invasion of Canada, which has left prohibition up to the provinces and thus means that the CCA annexes a lot of territory where alcoholic consumption is completely legal and popular with the working class. As a consequence, Canadian cities, particularly in the eastern republics, become the new hotbed for illegal alcohol production, which gives them a pretty infamous reputation nationally. By the 1950s, the only groups advocating for repealing the First Amendment are the regional Quebec Liberation Party and some anarchists within the SLP, although I also had the idea of there being an Anti-Prohibition Party that is moderately successful in local elections in Wisconsin. The bigger debate regarding prohibition nationally is how to address the illegal alcohol market, with the SLP arguing in favor of taking a more rehabilitative approach that treats alcohol like a public health emergency whereas the Populists and Democratic Centralists are in favor of a more punitive approach (think the War on Drugs but with alcohol).Why did Prohibition become a thing ITTL? Are there any political factions advocating for its abolition?
MacArthur's one of those figures that I think would be stubborn enough to pull off a presidential bid in his early eighties regardless of his health. Keep in mind that MacArthur also never gets fired and was overseeing American involvement in the Peruvian Civil War up until early 1960, which means that he's still a very popular and active force within the People's Continental Army by 1961 and capable of running for president on a platform of what's basically this world's Cold Warrior ethos, arguing that the Cooperative Commonwealth could've won decisively in Peru had it been more aggressive.And why did MacArthur run for President as an Independent in 1961 when his health was largely failing in OTL?
Chomsky gave a medal to Roger Nash Baldwin in 1980, although I might retcon that to 1981 or have someone else give Baldwin his medal. I have a basic idea of what the 1970s look like, and while I don't want to reveal too much, Chomsky won't be in office until at least the. late 1970s.Interesting how George Wallace becomes President in the '60s. Wasn't it mentioned that Noam Chomsky becomes President in the '70s when he gave a medal to somebody in 1972 in one of the wikiboxes? If so that means we have a list of C.C. Presidents until 1973 or later (Randolph 1961-1965, Wallace 1965-1969, Chomsky 1969-1973/77?).
I haven't planned the specifics of this TL out that far yet, but I think it makes sense that Sanders' father still moves to the Cooperative Commonwealth. Eastern Europe is much more stable by the 1920s ITTL than it was in OTL, but the CCA would still be a very appealing place to immigrate to if you're part of the working class and a persecuted minority in Europe.And finally was Bernie Sanders born ITTL since his father moved from Austria to America in 1921 IOTL before meeting Bernie's mother?
Thanks a lot for answering my questions so thoroughly. Sorry I must've forgotten that the medal was given in 1980 and I got it in my head that he gave it 8 years earlier.😅Absolutely! I'm happy to answer any questions regarding this TL.
Basically, temperance gets absorbed into the wider leftist and progressive movements of the 19th Century ITTL that ultimately overthrow the United States in the Second American Revolution. The partisan divisions on temperance are a bit more muddled at first (in OTL, the People's Party was pretty anti-prohibition), however, temperance reformers gradually align themselves with American leftists, with the Women's Christian Temperance Union most notably backing the Populists. The Socialist Labor Party never endorses prohibition, however, the People's Party starts to become more and more prohibitionist, and by the 1890s, there's a mentality in the socialist movement, regardless of whether or not you're pro-prohibition, that alcohol is an "opiate of the masses" that keeps the proletariat in line. By the time of the Second American Revolution, the temperance movement has been emboldened rather than weakened, which leads to the First Amendment to the CC constitution banning the sale, manufacture, or transportation of alcoholic beverages in 1918. The Socialist Labor Party, which is more socially libertarian and is more popular amongst urban communities of European immigrants, never endorses prohibition to the same extent as the Populists or Progressives, however, even it has some prominent members that are supportive of the First Amendment. What really bolsters prohibition ITTL to the point that it's never overturned is the First Great Struggle against Germany, with American propaganda associating alcohol with the German Empire, capitalism, and exploitation of the working class. By the end of the 1920s, the average American views alcoholic beverages as the poisonous drink of choice of capitalist Germany while root beer is considered the drink of choice in the socialist Cooperative Commonwealth, and repealing prohibition becomes a very fringe stance supported only by the anarchist wing of the Socialist Laborites. This also gives prohibition a bit more of an adversarial ideological angle, with illegal moonshining and speakeasy operations viewed as counterrevolutionary and treasonous, especially given that the bulk of these illegal operations are structured more like a capitalistic hierarchical business as opposed to being democratic worker councils. Things get a bit interesting with the invasion of Canada, which has left prohibition up to the provinces and thus means that the CCA annexes a lot of territory where alcoholic consumption is completely legal and popular with the working class. As a consequence, Canadian cities, particularly in the eastern republics, become the new hotbed for illegal alcohol production, which gives them a pretty infamous reputation nationally. By the 1950s, the only groups advocating for repealing the First Amendment are the regional Quebec Liberation Party and some anarchists within the SLP, although I also had the idea of there being an Anti-Prohibition Party that is moderately successful in local elections in Wisconsin. The bigger debate regarding prohibition nationally is how to address the illegal alcohol market, with the SLP arguing in favor of taking a more rehabilitative approach that treats alcohol like a public health emergency whereas the Populists and Democratic Centralists are in favor of a more punitive approach (think the War on Drugs but with alcohol).
MacArthur's one of those figures that I think would be stubborn enough to pull off a presidential bid in his early eighties regardless of his health. Keep in mind that MacArthur also never gets fired and was overseeing American involvement in the Peruvian Civil War up until early 1960, which means that he's still a very popular and active force within the People's Continental Army by 1961 and capable of running for president on a platform of what's basically this world's Cold Warrior ethos, arguing that the Cooperative Commonwealth could've won decisively in Peru had it been more aggressive.
Chomsky gave a medal to Roger Nash Baldwin in 1980, although I might retcon that to 1981 or have someone else give Baldwin his medal. I have a basic idea of what the 1970s look like, and while I don't want to reveal too much, Chomsky won't be in office until at least the. late 1970s.
I haven't planned the specifics of this TL out that far yet, but I think it makes sense that Sanders' father still moves to the Cooperative Commonwealth. Eastern Europe is much more stable by the 1920s ITTL than it was in OTL, but the CCA would still be a very appealing place to immigrate to if you're part of the working class and a persecuted minority in Europe.
I just hope TTL's Wallace is pre-1958 Wallace from IOTL with some anarcho-socialism/communism mixed in for good measure.Wallace finds a way I suppose
If the divergence happened before then, then maybe he won't be so bad, after all, he was born in 1919, after the Socialists came to powerI just hope TTL's Wallace is pre-1958 Wallace from IOTL with some anarcho-socialism/communism mixed in for good measure.
Finally our first look at the prequel!List of Presidents of the United States of America during the Gilded Age (1869-1904)
*The Liberal Republican and Democratic parties opted to form an electoral alliance in the 1872 presidential election, nominating the Liberal Republican Horace Greeley and Democratic Benjamin Gratz Brown for the presidency and vice presidency respectively; Greeley passed away before the Electoral College cast its votes, thus invalidating electoral votes won by the Greeley/Brown ticket
Ulysses S. Grant/Schuyler Colfax (Republican Party) 1869-1873
1868 defeated: Horatio Seymour/Francis Preston Blair Jr. (Democratic Party)- Ulysses S. Grant/Henry Wilson (Republican Party) 1873-1875
- 1872 defeated: Horace Greeley/Benjamin Gratz Brown (Liberal Republican Party/Democratic Party)*
- Ulysses S. Grant/none (Republican Party) 1875-1877*
- Rutherford B. Hayes/William A. Wheeler (Republican Party) 1877-1881
- 1876 defeated: Samuel J. Tilden/Thomas A. Hendricks (Democratic Party)
- Thomas F. Bayard/William Hayden English (Democratic Party) 1881-1887***
- 1880 defeated: Terence Vincent Powderly/James B. Weaver (Greenback-Labor Party); Ulysses S. Grant/Roscoe Conkling (Republican Party (Stalwart)); James G. Blaine/George F. Edmunds (Republican Party (Half-Breed)); Charles H. Matchett/Matthew Maguire (Socialist Labor Party)
- 1884**** defeated: Terence Vincent Powderly/Benjamin F. Butler (People's Party); Albert Parsons/Simon Wing (Socialist Labor Party); John Sherman/Powell Clayton (Republican Party)
- William Hayden English/none (Democratic Party) 1887-1889
- William Hayden English/Grover Cleveland (Democratic Party) 1889-1893
- 1888 defeated: Edward Bellamy/Davis Hanson White (People's Party); Philip Van Patten/Peter J. McGuire (Socialist Labor Party); Chauncey Depew/Edwin Henry Fitler (Republican Party); Clinton B. Fisk/John A. Brooks (Prohibition Party)
- Henry Clay Frick/Joseph Blackburn (Republican Party/Democratic Party) 1893-1897*****
- 1892 defeated: Edward Bellamy/August Spies (People's Party/Socialist Labor Party)******; John Bidwell/James Britton Cranfell (Prohibition Party)
- Benjamin Tillman/Alton B. Parker (Democratic Party) 1897-1904*******
- 1896 defeated: Henry George/Jo Labadie (People's Party/Socialist Labor Party); William McKinley/William B. Allison (Republican Party); Louis C. Hughes/Hale Johnson (Prohibition Party)
- 1900 defeated: George Boomer/Jo Labadie (People's Party/Socialist Labor Party); Cornelius Bliss/John C. Spooner (Republican Party); John Woolley/Silas C. Swallow (Prohibition Party)
**Vice President Henry Wilson passed away in November 1875, therefore leaving the office of the vice presidency vacant until 1877
***Assassinated by militant Knights of Labor organizer Daniel Cronin circa February 1887
****First presidential election since 1824 to be decided by the Congress of the United States due to no candidate securing a majority in the Electoral College; no presidential candidate would receive a majority in the Electoral College again until Daniel De Leon in the 1904 presidential election
*****Fearing a victory of the Populist-Socialist Laborite fusion ticket in the 1892 presidential election, the ruling capitalist Democratic and Republican parties opted to form a fusion ticket of their own, with businessman Henry Clay Frick of the Republican Party at the head of the ticket; The Democratic-Republican Alliance ultimately proved short-lived due to disputes over the gold-silver standard debate making the parties ineffective at governing together
******The People's Party and Socialist Labor Party formed a fusion ticket in the 1892 presidential election in order to create a socialist united front in national elections, and while the Bellamy/Spies ticket was unsuccessful, this tactic was continued by both parties until the final United States presidential election in 1904, which served as a prelude to the Second American Revolution; the Populist-Socialist Laborite fusion ticket won a plurality of the popular vote in all US presidential elections after this point, with the exception of 1900
*******Benjamin Tillman ran for an unprecedented third term in the 1904 presidential election, ultimately handedly losing to Populist and Socialist Laborite candidate Daniel De Leon outright in the Electoral College, however, the invalidation of the election's results by the Supreme Court of the United States in favor of Tillman being ruled the victor sparked civil unrest that culminated in the Second American Revolution, with the Tillman administration resigning in 1904 in favor of a provisional government headed by De Leon
Indeed! I'm not sure how much else I'll reveal about the TL before the Second American Revolution, given that it's not super relevant to the focus (all you really need to know going in IMO is that the Gilded Age is considerably worse than in OTL and paired with some authoritarian backsliding and a war with Germany), although I might eventually make a post about the 1877 Railroad Revolution, given that it's the POD.Finally our first look at the prequel!
Thanks, I really appreciate it! And I've really liked designing the prohibitionist angle of the CCA too. It gives culture in the Cooperative Commonwealth a bit more flavor than just "the US but socialist", and I like the implications of a world where alcoholic beverages are considered to be counterrevolutionary opioids of the masses while going to the bar to drink a nice glass of root beer and read Marx is considered about as patriotically American as you can get.I just wanted to say this is a nice take on the genre. Particularly like the prohibitionist angle, as we often forget how attached that was to the social gospel movement.