The progression of liberty: 1980 and escaping the Reagan revolution

My solution: Have the Iranian hostage rescue operation draw less of an astoundingly total idiot for its planner and chief. Then, Carter would like the successful man of action, and probably win. if narrowly. And, Reagan would look like an extremist loser instead.

I think that with that one change, we'd be more like less debt-ridden Canada or Britain, because we wouldn't have a Big Liar whom won and was reelected not paying the credit card. Our military'd be better balanced, and our econ crisis would probably also be smaller, again, like Britain's.

That's not to say there'd be no problems. We'd still have the bipartisan Security State, state takeaways of college funding, absurd intellectual property law, etc, but the state of our Union'd be IMHO rather better.

I'm a liberal, total socialist, leftie Democrat, BTW.
Actrually I am starting much earlier i nthe early fifties leading up to a Nixon election in 1960 with a string of moderate republicans taking us through the 1960s and 70s and a much shorter and less severe Vietnam crisis rather than a full blown VIetnam conflict.
 
I'm afraid, lounge60's TL has some bad problems. Sorry.

If you read the actual quote in wiki's Diem page, it says exactly zilch about peace, of course.... Good luck finding any evidence of peace....

And, no matter how generous Ho Chi Minh was, Diem was as outmatched on the ground, militarily, as the British general staff were by a certain Washington..... Diem was generally losing turf.

Fat chance, then, that either North Vietnam or Khruschev would've been in any mood for peace. So, Nixon would've been faced with the same losing record, politically, as JFK and LBJ. Would he really have shown more restraint, given Kissinger's distinctly UNrestrained record IOTL?

And, isn't ousting somebody for not being warmonger enough rather more the warmonging GOP scene than we totally peaceloving Dems'? :) (SO peaceloving, as you can see in Libya). :p
 
I'm afraid, lounge60's TL has some bad problems. Sorry.

If you read the actual quote in wiki's Diem page, it says exactly zilch about peace, of course.... Good luck finding any evidence of peace....

And, no matter how generous Ho Chi Minh was, Diem was as outmatched on the ground, militarily, as the British general staff were by a certain Washington..... Diem was generally losing turf.

Fat chance, then, that either North Vietnam or Khruschev would've been in any mood for peace. So, Nixon would've been faced with the same losing record, politically, as JFK and LBJ. Would he really have shown more restraint, given Kissinger's distinctly UNrestrained record IOTL?

And, isn't ousting somebody for not being warmonger enough rather more the warmonging GOP scene than we totally peaceloving Dems'? :) (SO peaceloving, as you can see in Libya). :p
Well crap. :(
 
To answer the OP, the latest POD I can think of is altering the dynamics of the 1980 presidential race with regards to third parties. To start off, collapse John Anderson's numbers on election day to 3%-5%. Then, boost the Ed Clark/David Koch Libertarian ticket to 10%. Basically, do everything described here to make the Libertarians optimally successful during the early 1980's.

Vote-splitting between the right-wing, along with less support for John Anderson, gives us an election map that looks like this:

1980.png
 
To answer the OP, the latest POD I can think of is altering the dynamics of the 1980 presidential race with regards to third parties. To start off, collapse John Anderson's numbers on election day to 3%-5%. Then, boost the Ed Clark/David Koch Libertarian ticket to 10%. Basically, do everything described here to make the Libertarians optimally successful during the early 1980's.

Vote-splitting between the right-wing, along with less support for John Anderson, gives us an election map that looks like this:
SO the Nutzie party would be out there, just still marginalized.
 
Well crap. :(

Ok,more radical solution.
From wilkipedia:
Ho Chi Minh:
"In 1912, working as the cook's helper on a ship, Nguyễn traveled to the United States. From 1912-13, he lived in New York (Harlem) and Boston, where he worked as a baker at the Parker House Hote"l.

One night of 1913 a drunk thug that who does not like Asians,give a stab to the heart of poor Ho.


From Wilkipedia:
Vo Nguyen Giap
"He joined the Communist Party of Vietnam in 1931 and took part in several demonstrations against French rule in Indochina".

During a demostration a French soldier shot to demonstrators and kill the young Giap.

From Wilkipedia:
Pham Van Dong:
"In 1929, he worked for the revolutionary association in Saigon. In the same year, he was arrested, tried by the French colonial authorities and sentenced to ten years in prison. He served the term in Poulo Condor Island Prison until 1936".

When die for tuberculosis.

Vietnam become indipendent May 10 1960,under Empeor Bao Dai.

In 60s is a nice place for American tourists.

1960s3faswithymealtrays.jpg
 
Last edited:
Ok,more radical solution.
From wilkipedia:
Ho Chi Minh:
"In 1912, working as the cook's helper on a ship, Nguyễn traveled to the United States. From 1912-13, he lived in New York (Harlem) and Boston, where he worked as a baker at the Parker House Hote"l.

One night of 1913 a drunk thug that who does not like Asians,give a stab to the heart of poor Ho.


From Wilkipedia:
Vo Nguyen Giap
"He joined the Communist Party of Vietnam in 1931 and took part in several demonstrations against French rule in Indochina".

During a demostration a French soldier shot to demonstrators and kill the young Giap.

From Wilkipedia:
Pham Van Dong:
"In 1929, he worked for the revolutionary association in Saigon. In the same year, he was arrested, tried by the French colonial authorities and sentenced to ten years in prison. He served the term in Poulo Condor Island Prison until 1936".

When die for tuberculosis.

Vietnam become indipendent May 10 1960,under Emeor Bao Dai.

In 60s is a nice place for American tourists.

Maybe Don Draper could take his new wife there for a vacation.

Yeah, I watch "Mad Men", What of it? I'm a girl, we're supposed to like Soap operas, aren't we?
 
I am not sure of what would have to be done, but my question is this:

How can we avoid the right wing Reagan revolution of the 1980's and still come back from the 1960/70's? that is to say, how can we avoid the knee jerk social conservative backlash against human freedom and still recover from the trauma of Vietnam and Watergate and so forth.

How do we seperate American patriotism from Social conservative jingoism BEFORE the latter subverts the forme
r?

That sounds like a very fair and objective question OP.
 
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