The Power and the Glitter!
- Thread starter vultan
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The Key Grip, vultan! Who is the Key Grip?!
In all seriousness, this is one of the most comprehensive and detailed looks at any non-existent work I've ever seen. You've got more detail put into the history of Watchmen, TTL motion picture, than the real Wikipedia page probably has on the OTL movie.
(Though if you're in doubt, that might a good place to look, to study for details on specific aspects of production that you believe may not have been covered to your own personal satisfaction.)
The Key Grip, vultan! Who is the Key Grip?!
Bruno Mattei.
Wow... thanks! That's a great compliment, coming from you!
Checked. Doesn't have particularly more info...
Guess I'm good!
Well, from the looks of things, Batman Forever and Batman and Robin will probably much changed from OTL, wheather it's a hit or a bomb.
If it's a hit, will we see a Mike Grell era Green Arrow, a Stormwatch, or WildC.A.T.S? Will Spawn be done a little less hammy and melodramtic? Will Steel be closer to the actual character? Will we butterfly away Christopher Reeve's accident, allowing someone in the future to try their hand at Kingdom Come with Reeve and Keaton reprising their roles?
It it's a bomb, will WB veto The Matrix? Will Titanic be derailed? Will Marvel Films never go beyond Blade, if that?
Enquiring minds want to know!
If it's a hit, will we see a Mike Grell era Green Arrow, a Stormwatch, or WildC.A.T.S? Will Spawn be done a little less hammy and melodramtic? Will Steel be closer to the actual character? Will we butterfly away Christopher Reeve's accident, allowing someone in the future to try their hand at Kingdom Come with Reeve and Keaton reprising their roles?
It it's a bomb, will WB veto The Matrix? Will Titanic be derailed? Will Marvel Films never go beyond Blade, if that?
Enquiring minds want to know!
Keep in mind, Batman Forever was released in the summer of 1995. Filming would be only a couple months off when Watchmen was released. However, it's certainly possible that there might be a change that stems from the initial POD.
Here's the box office for Batman Returns, released in June, 1992, after the divergence.
Domestic: $204,917,003
Foreign: $96,244,590
Total: $301,161,593
A dark Batman movie did very well, noticeably better than our timeline (historical gross was around $266 million. The country was generally in a darker mood at the time, what with the election of Duke, the massive civil disturbances, the more chaotic 1992 presidential campaign, and the higher-than-OTL focus on crime, poverty, violence, etc (although, riots aside, it's not especially higher than in our timeline: the crime drop that started to become apparent in the mid-1990's is still happening). Essentially, think of all the bad social political factors that happened in the early 1990's, a magnify them by a bunch. In essence, OTL to the extreme.
But I'm getting off-topic from your actual question. If Watchmen is successful, yes, there is a chance less mainstream comics can be adapted into movies. Anyone have any preferences?
Watchmen’s Release
Watchmen finally hit theaters on July 1st, 1994- incidentally, exactly three years after the premiere (but not the wide theatrical release) of Terminator 2: Judgment Day, Cameron’s last picture. Well, perhaps it wasn’t incidental. The July 4th weekend was, and remains, a very lucrative time to debut a movie. Fox’s multi-million dollar marketing campaign had been in full swing by then, and the summer of 1994 was popularly described in the press of “The Summer of Watchmen” [1]. In late June, one small comic shop owner in Manhattan described the scene outside his store and among his clientele. “We had people packing in my shop, flustered people, asking me what this Watchmen shit was all about. (I) Pointed them to the (Watchmen) rack. In the week or two leading up to the premiere, thing had to be reloaded like three times a day. The streets outside my store, and there was an RPG (role-playing game) joint right in front of my place, so yeah, was littered with posters. (It) Was like a scene outta the comic, y’know, right after the Squid hit… Yeah, some of my more regular regulars saw The Crow like five times just to see the five-minute trailer.”
Opening weekend box office was $59 million dollars, or, to again compare to T2, nearly $5 million more than the opening weekend of Cameron’s last directorial effort. It especially did well in the lucrative 18-35 male demographic, who made up nearly 60% of the audience. Competitors for the same weekend premiere, including Baby’s Day Out, Blown Away, and fellow superhero flick The Shadow were absolutely swamped, and all would continue to do poorly throughout what remained of their run. [2] Going into the second weekend, though, would be the big challenge, because the competition had upped the ante.
On July 6th, Forrest Gump, a dramedy directed by Robert Zemeckis and starring Tom Hanks, Robin Wright, and Gary Sinise was released. It revolved around the tale of a mentally challenged Southern man (Hanks), who inadvertently inserts himself into most of the major historical events of the latter part of the 20th century. Its sympathetic lead character was probably meant as a focal point for all the experiences of the Baby Boomer generation as a whole. In fact, the similar premises of Forrest Gump and Watchmen would actually strike critics as fitting: both were about fictional characters making their own implicit commentaries on the 20th century. Indeed, it’s fairly common to hear Watchmen referred to as a “darker Gump” or Forrest Gump as “a more light-hearted Watchmen”. However, long-term academic musings were not the top priorities of studio execs. Everyone waited in bated breath to see if Watchmen would be competitive its second weekend, against real competition.
And it did. The superhero extravaganza pulled in $30 million in its second weekend, or a less than 50% drop from its first weekend. While Gump pulled in a respectable $22 million [3] that weekend to generally positive reviews, a second-place showing in its first weekend would hobble its performance throughout the rest of the year. The other two films debuting that weekend, Angels in the Outfield and Spanking the Monkey were crushed by the competition.
Though the common misconception in the controversy surrounding the notorious 67th Academy Award controversy was that Watchmen had crushed Forrest Gump in the box office by comparison, a quick internet check would reveal that Gump actually out-grossed Watchmen in the international box office by nearly $100 million by the end of both of their theatrical runs. This is because Watchmen performed incredibly strongly in its first few weeks, mainly the month of July, before tapering off, while Forrest Gump was the metaphorical “little engine that could” doing consistently well enough for a prolonged period of time throughout the year, making up for time lost at the beginning. As it stands, though, Watchmen would become the movie that defined the summer of 1994, at once both dark social commentary, and spectacular popcorn fare. That is, in the opinion of some critics…
…
Watchmen’s Box Office [4]
Domestic: $256,958,954
Foreign: $219,308,749
Total: $476,267,703
…
[1] Thank you, Brainbin!
[2] Those three movies mentioned were the extent of what opened in North America during that weekend in our timeline. None of them did particularly well, and from what I hear, none of them are particularly memorable. In this timeline, they’ll do even worse, due to direct competition from a James Cameron production. In fact, out of all of them, probably only Baby’s Day Out would do anywhere close as well to as it did historically (which is still not as all, but hey…)
[3] Slightly less than in our timeline.
[4] Note, while it actually underperformed compared to T2 in general, it actually did better out the domestic box office, which, at least at the time, was all studio heads cared about.
---
Questions? Commentary? Critiques?
Watchmen finally hit theaters on July 1st, 1994- incidentally, exactly three years after the premiere (but not the wide theatrical release) of Terminator 2: Judgment Day, Cameron’s last picture. Well, perhaps it wasn’t incidental. The July 4th weekend was, and remains, a very lucrative time to debut a movie. Fox’s multi-million dollar marketing campaign had been in full swing by then, and the summer of 1994 was popularly described in the press of “The Summer of Watchmen” [1]. In late June, one small comic shop owner in Manhattan described the scene outside his store and among his clientele. “We had people packing in my shop, flustered people, asking me what this Watchmen shit was all about. (I) Pointed them to the (Watchmen) rack. In the week or two leading up to the premiere, thing had to be reloaded like three times a day. The streets outside my store, and there was an RPG (role-playing game) joint right in front of my place, so yeah, was littered with posters. (It) Was like a scene outta the comic, y’know, right after the Squid hit… Yeah, some of my more regular regulars saw The Crow like five times just to see the five-minute trailer.”
Opening weekend box office was $59 million dollars, or, to again compare to T2, nearly $5 million more than the opening weekend of Cameron’s last directorial effort. It especially did well in the lucrative 18-35 male demographic, who made up nearly 60% of the audience. Competitors for the same weekend premiere, including Baby’s Day Out, Blown Away, and fellow superhero flick The Shadow were absolutely swamped, and all would continue to do poorly throughout what remained of their run. [2] Going into the second weekend, though, would be the big challenge, because the competition had upped the ante.
On July 6th, Forrest Gump, a dramedy directed by Robert Zemeckis and starring Tom Hanks, Robin Wright, and Gary Sinise was released. It revolved around the tale of a mentally challenged Southern man (Hanks), who inadvertently inserts himself into most of the major historical events of the latter part of the 20th century. Its sympathetic lead character was probably meant as a focal point for all the experiences of the Baby Boomer generation as a whole. In fact, the similar premises of Forrest Gump and Watchmen would actually strike critics as fitting: both were about fictional characters making their own implicit commentaries on the 20th century. Indeed, it’s fairly common to hear Watchmen referred to as a “darker Gump” or Forrest Gump as “a more light-hearted Watchmen”. However, long-term academic musings were not the top priorities of studio execs. Everyone waited in bated breath to see if Watchmen would be competitive its second weekend, against real competition.
And it did. The superhero extravaganza pulled in $30 million in its second weekend, or a less than 50% drop from its first weekend. While Gump pulled in a respectable $22 million [3] that weekend to generally positive reviews, a second-place showing in its first weekend would hobble its performance throughout the rest of the year. The other two films debuting that weekend, Angels in the Outfield and Spanking the Monkey were crushed by the competition.
Though the common misconception in the controversy surrounding the notorious 67th Academy Award controversy was that Watchmen had crushed Forrest Gump in the box office by comparison, a quick internet check would reveal that Gump actually out-grossed Watchmen in the international box office by nearly $100 million by the end of both of their theatrical runs. This is because Watchmen performed incredibly strongly in its first few weeks, mainly the month of July, before tapering off, while Forrest Gump was the metaphorical “little engine that could” doing consistently well enough for a prolonged period of time throughout the year, making up for time lost at the beginning. As it stands, though, Watchmen would become the movie that defined the summer of 1994, at once both dark social commentary, and spectacular popcorn fare. That is, in the opinion of some critics…
…
Watchmen’s Box Office [4]
Domestic: $256,958,954
Foreign: $219,308,749
Total: $476,267,703
…
[1] Thank you, Brainbin!
[2] Those three movies mentioned were the extent of what opened in North America during that weekend in our timeline. None of them did particularly well, and from what I hear, none of them are particularly memorable. In this timeline, they’ll do even worse, due to direct competition from a James Cameron production. In fact, out of all of them, probably only Baby’s Day Out would do anywhere close as well to as it did historically (which is still not as all, but hey…)
[3] Slightly less than in our timeline.
[4] Note, while it actually underperformed compared to T2 in general, it actually did better out the domestic box office, which, at least at the time, was all studio heads cared about.
---
Questions? Commentary? Critiques?
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I'm sorry.
(And for anyone questioning why a children's film would necessarily be killed in the crossfire that weekend, it's more of a question of the oxygen being sucked out between Gump and Watchmen than them actually physically taking viewers).
I'm sorry.
(And for anyone questioning why a children's film would necessarily be killed in the crossfire that weekend, it's more of a question of the oxygen being sucked out between Gump and Watchmen than them actually physically taking viewers).
Other than that heresy, good update. A darker Gump, eh? That's very interesting. That means in terms of influence on films, Watchmen is basically Iron Man, The Dark Knight and little bit of Toy Story. I wonder how Toy Story will be affected by Big Blue Jon.
So, how does Hamil's Rorschach compare to Jackie Earle Haley's? I say this because I am quite certain that, except for Campbell as Comedian, and the fact that Doc Manhattan's more special effect than action character sensu strictu, the rest of the cast has much better action chops than OTL's, but aside from Spiner, there might be a little more Ham and Cheese in this version in spite of Cameron's efforts.
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thekingsguard said:
The critical reception is for the next update, but I can say this: Hamill's taking his role dead seriously.
I do love box office numbers.
AOL Keyword: Watchmen.
Oooh, I assume this means the Academy pulls one of their trademark incredibly stupid moves. Interesting.
If Watchmen is pushing computer special effects forward there's a strong possibility that Pixar was a subcontractor on the film (they worked on T:2) for ILM or for other stuff that vultan didn't mention.
Which probably doesn't change that much, except that Toy Story might look a little better than it did IOTL (if it's still coming out, which I hope so).
It's too bad Pauline Kael retired in 1991, I'd be curious about her take on it. I guess Siskel & Ebert is my only request for a reviewer.
AOL Keyword: Watchmen.
Oooh, I assume this means the Academy pulls one of their trademark incredibly stupid moves. Interesting.
If Watchmen is pushing computer special effects forward there's a strong possibility that Pixar was a subcontractor on the film (they worked on T:2) for ILM or for other stuff that vultan didn't mention.
Which probably doesn't change that much, except that Toy Story might look a little better than it did IOTL (if it's still coming out, which I hope so).
It's too bad Pauline Kael retired in 1991, I'd be curious about her take on it. I guess Siskel & Ebert is my only request for a reviewer.
Well, I meant later on. Though, fun trivia fact, the first movie to have a website, Stargate, was historically also released in 1994. Speaking of which...
Wait, what did I not mention?
Another fun fact- the guy who did much of the screenplay work for Watchmen in this timeline, Joss Whedon, also worked on the script for Toy Story in our timeline.
Nothing, actually. I was just speculating that Pixar wound up working on Watchmen (although you didn't mention it) because of their previous work on Terminator 2. Which might cause a few butterflies in terms of SFX technology and how Toy Story would look.
Yeah he was a pretty big script doctor IOTL, usually for punching up jokes. He has a ton of non-credits on scripts.
OK, thanks. And yes, many of their technicians probably worked on Doctor Manhattan's animation, which could lead to some interesting effects...
So, finally, the Watchmen film has arrived on the big screen!
(Say, you don't think you could butterfly away that name change, do you?)
(Yes, yes, I know that telling me anything about Plinkett is saying too much already.)
Looking forward to the reception. I definitely second Electric Monk's request for a Siskel and Ebert review
Interesting, though not terribly surprising. I definitely see another Godfather-type scenario happening here: Men adore the movie, women are lukewarm at best. Does this match the demographics for the OTL film? Female nerds seemed pretty excited about it, if I recall; but you can't trust anecdotal evidence for these kinds of things.
A respectable drop, for the time. Cameron could have done better (and certainly has, IOTL).vultan said:
So judging by this statement, along with others later in this update, are we to assume that Forrest Gump was not the #1 film of 1994? And yet you don't come out and explicitly state that Watchmen was, either. So, did another movie come right up the middle? Say, one about the circle of life, and how it moves us all? Can you feel the love tonight, vultan?vultan said:
Angels in the Outfield. Boy, does that take me back. Back to when the team in question were the California Angels, as opposed to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheimvultan said:
(Say, you don't think you could butterfly away that name change, do you?)How delightfully tantalizing. It should be noted that, IOTL, the Best Picture lineup of that year is considered one of the greatest of all time: Forrest Gump, The Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, Four Weddings and a Funeral, and Quiz Show. Nevertheless, in that list of five, there's definitely a weak link, with ample opportunity for a substitution ITTL... or is there?!vultan said:
My pleasurevultan said:
When we talk about Baby's Day Out, we must ask ourselves one very important question. Will it still get a Mr. Plinkett Review ITTL? Inquiring minds want to know!vultan said:
(Yes, yes, I know that telling me anything about Plinkett is saying too much already.)Looking forward to the reception. I definitely second Electric Monk's request for a Siskel and Ebert review
Right, but when Cameron did better withholding the box office drops, those were his two massive, record-obliterating successes (Titanic and Avatar).
In this 1994, just like our 1994, Lion King is the highest grossing film at around $770 million- around the same as OTL, with butterflies maybe adding or subtracting a few million dollars.
Historically, Forrest Gump and True Lies were second and third, with Gump taking in $677 mil and Lies getting $379 mil. Here, second and third are Forrest Gump and Watchmen (which, from a production standpoint, essentially replaced True Lies). I said Gump grossed no more than $100 mil more than Watchmen here, and since Watchmen got $476 mil, we'll say Gump takes in $570 mil- less than in OTL, but still spectacular.
And yes, you'll see excerpts from our friends Ebert and Siskel.