The Power and the Glitter!

Glen

Moderator
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Lo and behold, it was during this time that, after acquiring unfinished portions of Obama’s memoir from Times Books, which was set to publish the final product, that Universal Studios sent a galley proof to legendary director Norman Jewison (who had actually been set to direct Malcolm X before Spike Lee came aboard) to gauge his interest in directing a theatrical adaptation of the young man’s interesting life, under the working title “Dreams from My Father”…

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Sorry, but I find this one a bit far-fetched. Obama's story works because of his political success - his story isn't going to be particularly of interest this early. Still, weirder things have happened...

....[5] In our timeline, Turtledove and Dreyfuss actually intended the novel to be the basis of a feature film. Here, they have a better opportunity to seal the deal.

I didn't know that! That is hilarious!! Good going!

[6] Glover had, and still has, this idea in our timeline, but I’m cheating since historically he got it more recently. However, due to the hesitation major studios have over casting all-minority casts, it’s languished in development hell. Here, we’ll say Danny got a similar idea after reacting to all the extra media coverage civil rights in the United States had gotten in the aftermath of Duke’s election and the riots.

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It's plausible enough.
 

Glen

Moderator
What is it with this guy? Does he have some kind of magic pixie dust or something? To which I am immune because I remember how lame he was in his appearances in 1980s sitcoms? "The Facts of Life", "The Golden Girls", "Roseanne"... Maybe more of you need to see him in them. That might dispel you of the notion that he's the Great and Infallible Clooney. (Also, most of those shows are worth seeing anyway.)

I never thought much of George Clooney, but one movie proved to me he could actually act - From Dusk Til Dawn.
 
Sorry, but I find this one a bit far-fetched. Obama's story works because of his political success - his story isn't going to be particularly of interest this early. Still, weirder things have happened...

Yeah, well, Brainbin's Antwone Fisher comparison is rather helpful here. In normal circumstances, you're probably right. However, as I've said a lot before, there's more interest. And remember, this sort of practice (ie buying the rights to a book/comic/whatever before it's even published, then railroading it through production) is fairly common. Off the top of my head Jurassic Park and Fight Club are two examples of this.
 
I am curious as to how Babylon 5 might develop in this timeline.

There's several possibilities I'm floating around. What gives it an edge over the other space opera franchises of the era (some of which, most notably Stargate, are going to be VEEERY different) is that it is more gritty and politically-oriented. Not to the same level as reimagined Battlestar Galactica, but it's there. And with a slightly extended and deepened "Early 90's Crap Period" (ie bad economy, crime, etc that happened historically, just emphasized more), it could become more successful.

Star Trek's going to be trying even harder than OTL to reachieve it's late 1960's aura of being on the cutting edge of political and social discourse in America (not that they didn't try in this time period- the Kazon in Voyager's early seasons were supposed to represent street gangs in America, to much acclaim.):rolleyes:
 
Actually King Kong vs. Godzilla was released in 1962, but there were plans for a remake in the 90's until that bastard Ted Turner pulled the plug.

I agree, the American version of KKvG isn't very good, the original was meant to be a comedy, slapstick and all. That one is much better.

Btw, for more ideas, there was the "Aliens vs. Predator" and "freddy vs. Jason (vs. michael, ash, al gore etc.) fan match ups floating around then, and talks of the godfather part 4

Wanted to go back to this, thank you.

Assuming Watchmen does well enough that Bruce Campbell's profile is raised substantially because of it, what's the effect on the Evil Dead series, if any? Do Raimi and Campbell have any impetus to go back?

(Yes, I know there's a remake in the works now. Incidentally, in Army of Darkness, the original ending was supposed to be Ash being teleported from the Dark Ages to a post-apocalyptic future where the Deadites rule the world, leaving it on a cliffhanger like the last two movies in the series did. I thought about changing the ending to that, but in the end I couldn't think of why the POD would give any sort of impetus for that outcome.)

Thoughts?
 
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Assuming Watchmen does well enough that Bruce Campbell's profile is raised substantially because of it, what's the effect on the Evil Dead series, if any? Do Raimi and Campbell have any impetus to go back?

Is Evil Dead (the original) done already? Because in that case I'm good. An ex-girlfriend totally enjoyed the tree on girl action and I'd like to save that :).

To be more serious, it's quite possible that Campbell (we've lost Brisco right?[1]) will do it as a favour to Raimi. By all accounts the two are close friends and Campbell seems like an actually nice person. If not Evil Dead, I imagine the two will continue to work together when possible.



[1] I don't know if you've heard the story but apparently Campbell was all keyed up for the series, but wasn't among the top contenders… until in his audition he did a standing backflip and got the part.
 
Yep, Clint does win the big ones. However, there is the possibility that with Spike doing well, he'll feel less obligated to lash out at the Hollywood establishment (and remember, the two directors had a very specific beef with each other over just one of Eastwood's movies. I can't imagine Lee would attack the man for no reason in particular).
Let's not mince words here. However much talent he may have as a filmmaker, and however justified he may or may not be in his political opinions, the fact remains that Spike Lee is, to put it delicately, not a very mellow guy. If his "joint", which is bound to be a dark horse - no pun intended - for Best Picture at the very least, loses to Unforgiven, which even if it's a "revisionist" Western is still a Western, he will go on one of his patented Spike Lee diatribes. (Need I remind you that this is the man who sued Spike TV because they were "using his name"?) It may not quite match the vitriol of his Driving Miss Daisy rants, but he won't be a happy camper.

vultan said:
'Course, maybe the Oscar lust drives him to choose better roles over the next two decades.
A logical assumption. Though to be fair to Pacino, he has put in a few good performances since then. Contrast Robert De Niro who, their collaboration in Heat aside, has been pretty much phoning it in since Cape Fear.

Star Trek's going to be trying even harder than OTL to reachieve it's late 1960's aura of being on the cutting edge of political and social discourse in America (not that they didn't try in this time period- the Kazon in Voyager's early seasons were supposed to represent street gangs in America, to much acclaim.):rolleyes:
The easiest way for that to happen, IMO, is for some new blood. It seems that all the risk-takers went over to DS9 (which, I suspect, will jump with both feet into the racial allegories a lot sooner - Avery Brooks seemed to have a real appetite for that kind of thing). Voyager steered a very cautious and conservative course and didn't take any chances, by all accounts. (In the interest of full disclosure, I should once again emphasize that "Everything I Know About Voyager I Learned From SFDebris").

Is Evil Dead (the original) done already? Because in that case I'm good. An ex-girlfriend totally enjoyed the tree on girl action and I'd like to save that :).
The first two Evil Dead movies have been released, yes. The timing for the third one overlaps heavily with our POD, though principal photography appears to have predated it, so it might still have been released in this timeframe. Only vultan knows for sure ;)

Electric Monk said:
To be more serious, it's quite possible that Campbell will do it as a favour to Raimi. By all accounts the two are close friends and Campbell seems like an actually nice person. If not Evil Dead, I imagine the two will continue to work together when possible.
I agree wholeheartedly. Campbell and Raimi will continue to work together in the future. All we need is for Raimi to get his big breakthrough in the vein of OTL Spider-Man and we'll be all set...
 
Hokay, think I'm better now.

The rest of Watchmen's arc in this timeline will be finished (for the most part) in four installments- Production Design, Special Effects, Music and Marketing, and Release. They will be released in fairly short intervals of a few days to generate more discussion (I suddenly got a LOT more interested in my own project, with the recent revelation of the "Before Watchmen" project going on at DC).

Here's the first bit:

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Watchmen Design

During preproduction, Joss Whedon had opined in his screenwriting notes that the film’s setting and portrayal of New York should be “dirty, rainy, crime-y (sic)…broken down, overpopulated… (in a) style reminiscent of (Paul) Verhoeven’s RoboCop”. James Cameron, however, had a different understanding. “…I mean, the guy (Alan Moore) obviously had the kind of ‘retro-future’ sensibilities in mind when writing, the future everyone saw coming from the 1950’s. Yeah, there was crime, that kind of stuff in the graphic novel, but nothing that struck me as too overdone, and besides, the whole RoboCop trope with the explosive crime and everything was getting pretty overdone recently… Therefore, I wanted the kind of guy who could convey in the character design and scene design that would convey the future of superhero-world, not our world.” With David Gibbons unwilling to participate (though he, unlike Alan Moore, have the project his blessing), the director had to look elsewhere. Fortunately, Cameron was able to nab a concept artist with exactly the right kind of experience and sensibilities for the job.

This wasn’t Curt Swan’s first job in an Alan Moore-related project. The veteran comic book artist, famed for his countless renditions of Superman during DC’s Silver Age, had done the penciling for Moore’s “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?” in 1986, a work which stood out in part to the very nostalgic artwork. Cameron commissioned Swan to sketch designs for all the major characters, as well as his concepts for scenery. The artist accepted, in part because of financial necessity (he had not planned well for retirement, and was rumored to have a drinking problem). Swan’s designs were very at once both futuristic and very evocative of the 1950’s [1], accurately reflecting the director’s vision of an alternate Atomic Age future. This sort of production design, with “Andy Griffith” costumes [2] and sets, made for a stark contrast with the graphic violence and sexuality and other dark themes rampant in the film.

The other production designer involved in the film, H.R. Giger, had only one real responsibility, though arguably it was the most important of all: the Squid. Early on in the production, Cameron made the decision that he wanted to change the climax somewhat. In the comic, Adrian Veidt’s genetically-engineered monster is teleported to New York City, where it dies on arrival- killing millions with it, though, with a burst of psychic energy. However, Cameron held that “it would be such a letdown, a real letdown- not to mention a waste of my production crew- to design this huge monster- then basically have him die in two seconds. No. This Squid’s going on a giant monster rampage.” He envisioned a three to four minute scene where the monster “trashes” New York, before finally being brought down with by the United States military. Giger, who had previously created the titular creature in the Alien film series, which Cameron contributed to, was tasked with creating “the most disturbing giant monster ever”. The Swiss artist’s final design drew more inspiration from H.P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu mythos than the actual comic book, but the creature was still definitely Squid-like in nature. Giger’s one other contribution was the design for Bubastis, Ozymandias’ pet, a genetically-engineered lynx. Since the technology was lacking at the time to realistically render a hairy creature, Giger’s design called for the beast to be bald, with smooth, dark purple skin. The Squid was eventually realized on screen through computer effects, while Bubastis was a mixture of CGI and animatronics.

The art design for Watchmen was considered one of its strongest points, with critic Harry Knowles of Ain’t It Cool News later commenting that “…it’s really, even more than some of the acting, even more than the story, what turned it from your run-of-the-mill kickass action flick to an absolute fucking genius masterpiece.” Curt Swan and H.R. Giger, as the principle production designers, would be nominated for an Academy Award for Best Art Direction for their work, which was especially notable for Swan, as it was his first real job in the film industry. He would die two years after the film debuted.

It was now up to Stan Winston and his team of special effects wizards to put this all to the screen.

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[1] Think the art design and sensibility of the Fallout game series.

[2] Lots of fedoras and trench coats, except for youngsters like Seymour. They dress like typical 90’s twenty-somethings.

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Thoughts?
 
Hokay, think I'm better now.
Glad to hear it! And great to see another update, too!

vultan said:
Swan’s designs were very at once both futuristic and very evocative of the 1950’s [1], accurately reflecting the director’s vision of an alternate Atomic Age future.
I like the sound of that. It also echoes how Batman was a quasi-futuristic take on Film Noir (among other things).

vultan said:
The other production designer involved in the film, H.R. Giger, had only one real responsibility, though arguably it was the most important of all: the Squid.
Nice of Cameron to get Giger involved in this project, and a good way for Giger to actually achieve something else that's meaningful onscreen, rather than accept second-rate jobs and coast on his legacy from Alien.

vultan said:
The Squid was eventually realized on screen through computer effects, while Bubastis was a mixture of CGI and animatronics.
A nice Jurassic Park-style compromise of vision with the available technology.

vultan said:
Harry Knowles of Ain’t It Cool News
Fun fact: Ain't It Cool News takes its name from a line featured in a film that had been released the year of its creation: 1996's Broken Arrow. You've just established that it's going to exist ITTL as well. Another, unrelated fun fact: Broken Arrow is the one and only film on which Gene Siskel changed his verdict in the history of Siskel & Ebert (from a marginal "thumbs up" to "thumbs down" - and no, Ebert never did anything like that; he's far too stubborn). Quite an influential film, considering its present-day obscurity.

vultan said:
Curt Swan and H.R. Giger, as the principle production designers, would be nominated for an Academy Award for Best Art Direction for their work, which was especially notable for Swan, as it was his first real job in the film industry.
Art direction! That's quite the nomination - one of many, I suspect (all of which will be "technical" or "creative", but still), given the gimmes of Visual Effects, the two Sound Oscars, and possibly Film Editing or maybe even Cinematography... among others?

vultan said:
It was now up to Stan Winston and his team of special effects wizards to put this all to the screen.
The hardest-working man in Hollywood. I look forward to seeing his efforts in the next update!
 
Fun fact: Ain't It Cool News takes its name from a line featured in a film that had been released the year of its creation: 1996's Broken Arrow. You've just established that it's going to exist ITTL as well. Another, unrelated fun fact: Broken Arrow is the one and only film on which Gene Siskel changed his verdict in the history of Siskel & Ebert (from a marginal "thumbs up" to "thumbs down" - and no, Ebert never did anything like that; he's far too stubborn). Quite an influential film, considering its present-day obscurity.

Hmm, I actually didn't know that, but after a quick wiki check, I can see no reason why it wouldn't be produced.

However, that reminds me, at least one John Woo film released in the 1990's is going to be VERY different...
 
Nice of Cameron to get Giger involved in this project, and a good way for Giger to actually achieve something else that's meaningful onscreen, rather than accept second-rate jobs and coast on his legacy from Alien.

Also, Giger got screwed over for his work on Alien 3, so yeah...
 
I love the Squid and how you described! Heck if it's super popular (Squid plushie?) maybe we get a good Lovecraft movie out of this or, even better, something akin to the Laundry novels or Delta Green.

With James Cameron pushing visual effects forward where he didn't IOTL since neither True Lies nor Titanic really needed the demanding requirements of Terminator 2 how is that going to change the state of computer graphics ITTL?

Furthermore, although technology isn't the focus, you probably could butterfly some tech developments from that if you felt like it (heck just product placement for something could do it).

However, that reminds me, at least one John Woo film released in the 1990's is going to be VERY different...

Mission Impossible II or Face/Off? Because those are the ones that leap to mind with potential consequences.

Oh, and would it be possible to get a mini-movie round-up? Just the various little differences in movies that have been somewhat effected (but not entirely changed) by the POD? The equivalent of a "where are they now" kinda post.
 
After reading the first page of this I must say, the coolest thing about this timeline, is that Charlton Heston gets the role he was born to play.
 
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