The Pope permanently stays at Avignon

U need a strong French Pope and greater influence from College of Cardinals over him... Pope Gregory XI decided to return to Rome after hearing the urges from Romans and Catherine of Siena... Once he set foor there it was more than sure that Roman mob wouldnt let him go away... Besides in the event of his death if Conclave convenes in Rome or in Italian soil its impossible that a French Pope would be chosen without risking a Schism...
 
IMO the Popes will only stay in Avignon if there is a rival Pope in Rome. Considering that moving to Rome gave you control of a quite sizable country, and carried all the heritage of the 1300-year running Papacy, staying in Avignon just doesn't really make sense.
 
There is absolutely no incentive whatsoever for anyone claiming to be Pope to want this.

Why? Because a Pope is only Pope because they are the Bishop of Rome, not the other way around. That is what their authority derives from. A Permanent non-Roman papacy is therefore only a recipe for a progressive weakening of papal legitimacy. The Avignon Papacy itself drew the Papacy down because of precisely this problem.

So in a word, if the Papacy stays at the Avignon too long, the result for the papacy would be bad.
 
There is absolutely no incentive whatsoever for anyone claiming to be Pope to want this.

Why? Because a Pope is only Pope because they are the Bishop of Rome, not the other way around. That is what their authority derives from. A Permanent non-Roman papacy is therefore only a recipe for a progressive weakening of papal legitimacy. The Avignon Papacy itself drew the Papacy down because of precisely this problem.

So in a word, if the Papacy stays at the Avignon too long, the result for the papacy would be bad.
I think this will be the result
rome.png

'Italy'(dark green)
-Allied or has personal union with Aragon, the official language will be based on Neapolitan rather than Tuscan.
Milan-Venetia(Violet)
-An ally of France,Veneto and Milanese are official languages
Avignon(Red)
-Seat of the pope.
Savoy(light blue)
-An ally of Aragon
Aragon(dark red)
-The official language is Occitan,protector of Avignon.
Castille(light green)
-In personal union or annexed by aragon, castillian is the official language.
Portugal(Violet)
-Independent kingdom and gains Galiza
 

Valdemar II

Banned
To make long term stay in Avignon possible you need to increase the Popes secular power there, it's a relative small domain far away from Italy, making the papal fief sensible to takeover, so you need something which will give the Pope enough secular power to make the stay worth it or make something force them to stay there*.

*through in that case we likely see the Papal authority weaken, and the national churches splitting from one unified Church.
 
Milan-Venetia(Violet)
-An ally of France,Veneto and Milanese are official languages

Please tell me you didn't just unite two warring rival states into one bigger state :confused:

Also, Milanese isn't a language. They spoke Italian, some northern dialect anyway. Veneto is just a dialect of Italian too.

I'd question Italy forming in this period, too. There was simply no Italian nationalism, and any attempt at simple landgrabbing to this degree would be met by a smack-down from the traditional powers - Milan, Venice, the Papacy (whether under Papal control or not), Aragon, France etc. It would take a monumental effort for Aragon to win Occitania, France is just too powerful, and likewise Galicia is too much of an ask for Portugal, who have absolutely no claim to it anymore.
 
Please tell me you didn't just unite two warring rival states into one bigger state :confused:

Also, Milanese isn't a language. They spoke Italian, some northern dialect anyway. Veneto is just a dialect of Italian too.

I'd question Italy forming in this period, too. There was simply no Italian nationalism, and any attempt at simple landgrabbing to this degree would be met by a smack-down from the traditional powers - Milan, Venice, the Papacy (whether under Papal control or not), Aragon, France etc. It would take a monumental effort for Aragon to win Occitania, France is just too powerful, and likewise Galicia is too much of an ask for Portugal, who have absolutely no claim to it anymore.

Milanese and Veneto are more closely related to french not to italian.
 
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