By the way, ideas for Arabic name equivalents of some cities would be really helpful. Specifically:
Leon
Oviedo (Capital of Asturias)
Pampalona
Bordeaux
Santiago
Bilbao
Leon
Oviedo (Capital of Asturias)
Pampalona
Bordeaux
Santiago
Bilbao
The Palace has Fallen: A Timeline Without Charlemagne
- Thread starter ArchimedesCircle
- Start date
Here are a few I found on Wikipedia:
For Pampalona the Arabic looks to be Banbalūna.
Bordeaux = Būrdū
Santiago = Šānt Yāqūb
For Pampalona the Arabic looks to be Banbalūna.
Bordeaux = Būrdū
Santiago = Šānt Yāqūb
The Chronicles: The Saga of Widukind
And so it happened in the tenth year of the reign of Dagobert IV that a great army of heathens crossed the Rhine and laid waste to Austrasia. A great number of farms and churches were burnt, and the Christians living there were taken as slaves. And the survivors spoke of a great army of devil-worshippers, countless in number and carrying many strange idols. And at their head a great warrior known as Widukind. The great and devilish pagan was the descendant of the false god Woden and he brought death and suffering on a black horse, and many Christians thought it was the end of the world.
- Royal Frankish Annals
And he rode astride the black horse Alsvidr, given to the forest king by One-Eyed Woden himself. And so Widukind, son of Theodoric, saw that the time had come to claim vengeance on the Franks and gathered a great host of warriors to make war on the Christians. Heroes flocked to his banner. From the Danes came Harald Wartooth, beloved by Woden, and Halga son of Halfdane, and the shieldmaiden Webiorg. From the Geats came Sigurd and his son Ragnar, and with them three hundred warriors and the thrice-cursed giant Starkad. From the Slavs came the prince Dragovit, who brought with him one hundred warhorses. From the Frisians came the twin heroes Ubbe and Radboad. From across Saxony came Wulf and Theodoric the Wise. And so after three years the great host was gathered and Widukind rode to do battle with the Franks.
- The Saga of Widukind
The eighth century was a time of pagan expansion, but no pagan ruler was as powerful nor as influential as Widukind. The bastard son of the Saxon chief Theodoric, Widukind was never meant to rule. But Widukind was ambitious and ruthless. After his father's death, Widukind gathered his own army and overthrew his brothers, becoming the king of Westphalia. Soon afterwards he began to expand his kingdom, unifying Westphalia before moving against the Saxon tribes in Angria and Eastphalia. His army was known to use the forests to hid and ambush their enemies, from which Widukind earned his kenning 'Child of the Woods'. With the Bavarians distracted during by the Schismatic's War, Widukind's hosts raided further and further into Bavarian territory, where the Saxon ruler first appears in historical records. With the treasure and captives from these raids, Widukind fueled his growing kingdom until it covered all of Saxony, then expanded even further to the northeast, exerting dominion over the Obotrites. In the north Widukind made pacts with the three great Danish rulers- Sigfred, Harald and Halga. Although his control did not reach far past Kattegat, tales of Widukind circulated throughout Scandinavia, with numerous embellishments added such his trademark black horse being a gift from Woden, and his name coming from him being raised by wolves. Long after his death, these tales would coalesce into The Saga of Widukind. In 775 Widukind finally began his long-planned invasion of the Franks, aided by his allies and tributaries amongst the Danes, Geats, Pomeranians, Swedes, Jutes, Norsemen and Frisians. Numerous warriors from throughout northern Europe flocked to the king's banner, hoping for fame and fortune.
And their hopes were not in vain. Widukind's accomplishments were due in part to his skilled diplomacy and his adherence to the tradition of ring-giving, or gift-giving. Generous portions of land and treasure were promised to those who followed him, and swift defeat to those who opposed him. He took Poppo's daughter Saaske as his wife to cement his alliance with the Frisians. To his Nordic and Slavic allies Widukind promised lands in the west. The Obotrite leader Dragovit was the first of his allies to claim such a prize, establishing himself as the ruler of Wuchodol in Lorraine* shortly after the Rhine-crossing in 775. Soon after the armies of Harald and Sigfred claimed land in Dentelinus and Vexin.
Widukind's empire's subdivisions and allies, 781
*As far as I can tell, this translates to Western Valley in Sorbian. If anyone has a better name, I'm open to suggestions.
- Royal Frankish Annals
And he rode astride the black horse Alsvidr, given to the forest king by One-Eyed Woden himself. And so Widukind, son of Theodoric, saw that the time had come to claim vengeance on the Franks and gathered a great host of warriors to make war on the Christians. Heroes flocked to his banner. From the Danes came Harald Wartooth, beloved by Woden, and Halga son of Halfdane, and the shieldmaiden Webiorg. From the Geats came Sigurd and his son Ragnar, and with them three hundred warriors and the thrice-cursed giant Starkad. From the Slavs came the prince Dragovit, who brought with him one hundred warhorses. From the Frisians came the twin heroes Ubbe and Radboad. From across Saxony came Wulf and Theodoric the Wise. And so after three years the great host was gathered and Widukind rode to do battle with the Franks.
- The Saga of Widukind
The eighth century was a time of pagan expansion, but no pagan ruler was as powerful nor as influential as Widukind. The bastard son of the Saxon chief Theodoric, Widukind was never meant to rule. But Widukind was ambitious and ruthless. After his father's death, Widukind gathered his own army and overthrew his brothers, becoming the king of Westphalia. Soon afterwards he began to expand his kingdom, unifying Westphalia before moving against the Saxon tribes in Angria and Eastphalia. His army was known to use the forests to hid and ambush their enemies, from which Widukind earned his kenning 'Child of the Woods'. With the Bavarians distracted during by the Schismatic's War, Widukind's hosts raided further and further into Bavarian territory, where the Saxon ruler first appears in historical records. With the treasure and captives from these raids, Widukind fueled his growing kingdom until it covered all of Saxony, then expanded even further to the northeast, exerting dominion over the Obotrites. In the north Widukind made pacts with the three great Danish rulers- Sigfred, Harald and Halga. Although his control did not reach far past Kattegat, tales of Widukind circulated throughout Scandinavia, with numerous embellishments added such his trademark black horse being a gift from Woden, and his name coming from him being raised by wolves. Long after his death, these tales would coalesce into The Saga of Widukind. In 775 Widukind finally began his long-planned invasion of the Franks, aided by his allies and tributaries amongst the Danes, Geats, Pomeranians, Swedes, Jutes, Norsemen and Frisians. Numerous warriors from throughout northern Europe flocked to the king's banner, hoping for fame and fortune.
And their hopes were not in vain. Widukind's accomplishments were due in part to his skilled diplomacy and his adherence to the tradition of ring-giving, or gift-giving. Generous portions of land and treasure were promised to those who followed him, and swift defeat to those who opposed him. He took Poppo's daughter Saaske as his wife to cement his alliance with the Frisians. To his Nordic and Slavic allies Widukind promised lands in the west. The Obotrite leader Dragovit was the first of his allies to claim such a prize, establishing himself as the ruler of Wuchodol in Lorraine* shortly after the Rhine-crossing in 775. Soon after the armies of Harald and Sigfred claimed land in Dentelinus and Vexin.
Widukind's empire's subdivisions and allies, 781
*As far as I can tell, this translates to Western Valley in Sorbian. If anyone has a better name, I'm open to suggestions.
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Alas, but dialectics works here. On the one hand, the moral authority of the church falls in such cases. But with another very fact of raids and zovayvaniyah pagans increasingly contact with organized religions. Also there are servants-Christians. Warriors get married to Christian girls ... In other words, more and more to get acquainted with organized faith. Then there are objective factors - the development of economic and social relations, and the transition to feudalism. Saxon paganism (like any European paganism of that time) - in fact, not a religion, but just a set of tribal beliefs, they are not able to provide the Feudal Pyramid. Religion should be transformed after the economic formation. Since these tribes actively interacted with Christians, the rulers of these peoples actively took Christianity - it gave them the right of supreme power, and also helped them to establish relations with the rest of Europe. For the preservation of such cults, there should be no competition. I think that in the IX and X centuries there will be an active Christianization of Northern Germany.
Yes but the question remains as to what type of Christianity that will emerge from this fusion dance, Rome isn't exactly in a position of 'all-powerful' Western Christianity that it was in RL, so we could see the 'pagans' embrace Islam or some other type Christianity that Rome will see as heresy.
Depends on what kind of rite their advice is held - Franks, Anglo-Saxons, Bavarians. They accept the rite with which they are already familiar.
Alas, Hinduism took 4000 years to adapt to both the slave and feudal system. The Germans do not have that much time - they just finish the tribal period of history.
Yeah, but it wouldn't take them as long. Someone of priesthood is bound to write everything he could down and pass it between the other followers as they reform the faith. Bureaucracy is further ahead here than thousands of years ago.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Re: The Saxons and remaining pagans amongst the Germanic tribes. Perhaps we could get something along the lines of the Barghawata who in OTL adopted an Islam-esuqe religion with Berber characteristics. Perhaps this is a possible development for the Saxons who don't want to fully abandon their traditional gods for Christianity?
So something like the Church of Saint Woden? Could be interesting.
So instead of just Celtic Christianity, we'll have Viking Christianity... I love it!
So instead of just Celtic Christianity, we'll have Viking Christianity... I love it!
Jesus would probably equated with Baldr...
So instead of just Celtic Christianity, we'll have Viking Christianity... I love it!
We'll see. At the moment western Christendom isn't really in a position to be proselytizing, seeing as it's currently facing existential threats from pagans, Muslims and schismatics. But yes, Baldr or Woden would probably have their resurrection or sacrificial acts incorporated into a syncretic Christian branch.
In my ideas for a pagan Europe I have the Saxons develop a divine king "Imperial Cult" which provides an institutional framework for Saxon paganism and an ideological justification for suppressing Christians in their territory as well as any would be missionaries. They also syncretise aspects of Slavic paganism, particularly with regards to priesthood structures, and later on even some aspects of Judaism. But I admit that a lot of this is suited to a very different timeline and is partly wishful thinking.
For the imperial cult, the Roman Empire is needed, that is, a military slave state with an eastern influence, a strong monarch power and a powerful bureaucracy. And in order to reach the level of hot-em, the era of the tsars, the Saxons will take 100-200 years.