Have the Bulgarians do what a tribe living to the Northeast did around this time IOTL?
The Palace has Fallen: A Timeline Without Charlemagne
- Thread starter ArchimedesCircle
- Start date
Koprulu Mustafa Pasha
Gone Fishin'
Map looks just fine... I have a question tho. What is the religious situation of Europe at the moment? Like how much did Christianity or Islam spread, how much did the Pagans regain? Are there Pagans that are to convert?
No one's converted yet, so the religious map is still pretty much the same as it was earlier.
You are right that it wouldn't need to be Monotheistic but it certainly would help, if they at least did a good job of confirming one god as chief god, since political instability is eroded by too many different gods being worshiped by different people. One idea would be make a bunch of chief priests who each correspond to a god and act as that god's mouthpiece, with the Odin priest being a hereditary title held by a powerful King. It could get really interesting.
There was not a hard and fast distinction between paganism practised by scandinavians or saxons, it all existed on a sort of messy continuum of rituals gods and practises that varied from region to region
Ironically the group i could see surviving pagan for the longest (if they are not conquered by bavaria) is the wuchodol slavic kingdom. New arrivals so missionaries will have less experience dealing with their religion, and a caste of conquerors who might wish to maintain their supremacy and identity in germany through a more formalised and rules based paganism, something like what the kievan rus attempted shortly before converting.
The Germanic religious universe, common traits notwithstanding, had been hugely diverse, with local cults and gradual differences in mythology etc., probably not unlike the Greeks about whose paganism we know a lot more.
But by 800, most of that has faded. People in Christianised regions knew that this or that grove was sacred, in that lake mysterious ceremonies had taken place, and if you wanted X or Y you had to perform Z or W to please deity B or C, and when you grew up, you underwent this or that rite, and when you buried your dead, you gave them this or that - and These Details varied across the Lands. But the religious Elite w löst and with it much of the coherence and organised knowledge. So I wonder if we can truly speak of multiple Germanic paganisms by this time - it's really mainly Norse. That is also a weird Situation in England: vikings who rule the Land are pagans, but they can't restore old Anglo-Saxon paganism because they, like most anglo-saxons by that point, don't know it very thoroughly; they can bring their own paganism, but that's a different one. They'll create new Holy places and all that.
But by 800, most of that has faded. People in Christianised regions knew that this or that grove was sacred, in that lake mysterious ceremonies had taken place, and if you wanted X or Y you had to perform Z or W to please deity B or C, and when you grew up, you underwent this or that rite, and when you buried your dead, you gave them this or that - and These Details varied across the Lands. But the religious Elite w löst and with it much of the coherence and organised knowledge. So I wonder if we can truly speak of multiple Germanic paganisms by this time - it's really mainly Norse. That is also a weird Situation in England: vikings who rule the Land are pagans, but they can't restore old Anglo-Saxon paganism because they, like most anglo-saxons by that point, don't know it very thoroughly; they can bring their own paganism, but that's a different one. They'll create new Holy places and all that.
Oh, ok. It's that I always hear about the god Wotan when people talk about Germanic paganism and neopaganism, so I wanted to explore by exactly who he was worshipped. In the end, I think that if Vikings can influence Pagan Germany it could end with Norse Paganism absorbing Germanic cults and maybe with a united Norse-German empire, unified by a Danish king.
P A G A N S T R O N K
Wodan is Elbe Germanic for the deity who is called Odin in Norse. Saxons called him Uuoden.
If Vikings are really to have "Norse Paganism absorb Germanic cults", they'd need a concept like "interpretatio romana", but not necessarily for the deities - the pantheon had its regional shadings, too, but by 800 they're not that extreme in what is left of Germanic paganism -, but for sacred places and practices.
This is the main problem with any attempt at "reformed paganism" though. The church had the strength it is through centralization and uniformity, and the schisms in it happened because of differences of opinion on practices and centers of the faith. The pagans already adopted a wide range of those, and reforming the religion would require reigning them in rather than just moderating new divergent thoughts.
If people feel they can get away with their own divergent practices and shifting the religious centers towards them, they will never form an organized whole.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
The last chance for a "reformed" paganism that can push back against Christianization died with Widukind. Christianization will happen; slowly but surely.
Meh. Temporal unity wouldn't be enough to craft a centralized religion of all pieces. Any attempt to unify practices, create a hierarchy or define what are the most important places and people in the religion would result in Widukind's coalition of pagans falling flat and everyone going their own way or uniting to fight the centralizing power.
Really, really enjoying this timeline so far, both the written content and the maps themselves, so I've nominated it for the medieval Turtledove! 
Really, really enjoying this timeline so far, both the written content and the maps themselves, so I've nominated it for the medieval Turtledove!
Oh wow, I'm honored! Thank you so much for the nomination!
Honestly I fully agree with the nomination. This is definitely one of my favourite pre-1900 ones.
The Chronicles: The Eagle Banner
The Eagle Banner of Lombardy (Credit to @HowAboutThisForAName for the design)
Shortly after Desiderius was crowned as emperor of the Western Romans in 760, a new standard was flown above the cities of the newly reborn empire in celebration. The standards, known as the Eagle Banners, quickly became both the personal symbol of Desiderius as well as a symbol of the empire as a whole. The eagle on the standard had its head turned to the west, signifying the domination its owner held as master of the west. Surrounding the eagle were golden laurels, ancient symbols of the Roman triumphs. And above the eagle's head was the Iron Crown, the traditional symbol of the Lombard monarchy. The standard sat upon a red field, another call back to the red aquila standards of old Rome.
Okay, there's not a whole lot to say here, but HowAboutThisForAName did a great job with the flag here and I wanted to share it. It does show the hybrid Germano-Roman culture that's beginning to develop in the Italian Peninsula.
The hybridization of cultures definitely sounds interesting and will lead to some crazy stuff no doubt, especially with a Khaganate still in Europe. Also, I wonder what will happen when the Abassids fall...