The Oranje you glad i didn't say banana timeline 1795 - 1995

The United States of Oranje (The Oranje you glad i didn't say banana timeline 1795 - 1995)

This is the first time doing this so hopefully I did it right sort of, this word wall is from posts from the map thread...
Here is the current rough draft of the timeline I put together...

"Story Ideas"

"Me"
The Dutch never lost there Cape colony and soon it began to flourish with the discovery of precious metals and other precious luxury resources. A South African gold rush started just as the California Gold Rush with Dutch, German, French peoples traveling by boat to South Africa. Of course the natives where wary of these foreigners such as the natives of the Americas. There where wars a skirmishes with some tribes like the Zulus and such. But the Netherlands which had dominant control of the colony with Prussia and France having control over some of the mining industries they strike a deal with the Dutch for 40% of the profit. Even with this cut from the income they still gained a lot of wealth to fund there crown jewel colony. The British wanted to intervene but saw that France and the German states would not be very happy, when there proposal would end the deal with the Dutch and have the British gain almost 100% of the profit. But after the British backed away and focused more on India and Australia, The Dutch had begin a trek into the interior of the continent. Through conquest and negotiation by the 1890's the Dutch have had a spanning Africa colony stretch from Kongoland, The Nile, to the Cape. Like British Canada, Dutch Oranje soon found there self's wanting more freedom to govern them selves. They looked at the example of how the United States had flourish even more under a independent nation and a democracy, Oranje was always in a way had a federal make up of a colony and a union consisted of a cosmopolitan peoples of many ethics. By 1931 The United States of Oranje had proclaimed there independence!
So yeah Oranje was mostly a colony most it's time until around the 20's 30's it became independent but at a cost of going to war with the Netherlands which they eventual won.Also pretty much everything above South Africa is a kind of a Wild West only it's called "The Wild North" because of it's fast incorporation into the United States of Oranje. "The Wild North" era lasted from 1885 to 1938. During around the Great War and the Great Depression namely 1900 to 1936 was the most action packed and famous of all that period, soon movies where made in the forties and fifties of this time. Kids every where wanted to be just like "Ben Viljoen" or "Christiaan Rudolf de Wet" or other famous men of that period!

"Movie Ideas" Discussion from the Maps VII forum...

"Troyer IV"
Yeah... I can see it now, Prizes of the Wild, something like Blood Diamond mixed with Deadwood, made in 1947, only set somewhere in the Congo, with Afrikaaners spilling blood in the dense jungles while hiring out native trackers clad in mountain gorilla pelts to waylay mining camps for gold or somesuch, all the while the local authorities continue to jockey for better roads for the community while also lining their pockets, maybe one day aiming to be appointed Governor to one of the new 'Wild' territories, though (il)legal slavers(?) continue to operate in the area, shipping human merchandise from east to west while operating in some of the lowly drug dens or stirring up civil strife amongst any of the neighboring peoples.

Actually, I'd like to see that.

"Me"
Don't forget German and British spy rings as well. Some silly villain with the biggest mustache possible and a tinted rimmed monocle. And in every scene with him there has to be some kind of fire reflection of his monocle in the distance. Like from "Brother where art thou"


Here is a map of the USO and the Wild North...

oranjetexturedstates.png



wildnorth.png


You are now welcome to add, if you wish contribute details to the current timeline or ideas such as what Pretoria "the capital of the USO" would look like or what type of government would be set up after the revolution in 1931.
 
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Wouldn't the Dutch need a much larger colonist population than in OTL to maintain such a big colony? But, of course, they can always encourage foreign immigration into the USO. German, maybe?
 
To convergent of Borders.

Most of African borders besides the northern nations are of geographical defined by nature...I was trying to keep it that way, I can see how it would be a little weird to keep it like the original timeline borders. I could possible change some of them some time. Really I just need to focus more with the timeline, tell I can fix that possible issue of Convergence.
 
Wouldn't the Dutch need a much larger colonist population than in OTL to maintain such a big colony? But, of course, they can always encourage foreign immigration into the USO. German, maybe?

Yes there are a ton of German and French immigrants coming in for the gold rush. Some American and British as well. South African region ends up like California in a way.
 
Most of African borders besides the northern nations are of geographical defined by nature...I was trying to keep it that way, I can see how it would be a little weird to keep it like the original timeline borders. I could possible change some of them some time. Really I just need to focus more with the timeline, tell I can fix that possible issue of Convergence.


Borders that are absurd:

-OTL Transvaal
-OTL Oranje
-OTL Cape Colony
-OTL Zulu
-OTL Congo Coast
-OTL Kenya
-OTL Tazania
-OTL Angola
-OTL Namibia
-OTL British Cameroon
-OTL Uganda
 

Arrix85

Donor
I think you have to develop a little better the PoD: how can the dutch maintan the colony of Cape Town? the british gave it back in 1803, but the Dutch East India declared soon afterwards bankruptcy so the they took it back in 1806. If the Dutch manage to keep it (but I guess you have to butterfly away the napoleonic wars... having the motherland occupied can cause a little drain in money) I wouldn't go that far north ( Namibia, Botswana and maybe Zimbabwe tops).
 
I think you have to develop a little better the PoD: how can the dutch maintan the colony of Cape Town? the british gave it back in 1803, but the Dutch East India declared soon afterwards bankruptcy so the they took it back in 1806. If the Dutch manage to keep it (but I guess you have to butterfly away the napoleonic wars... having the motherland occupied can cause a little drain in money) I wouldn't go that far north ( Namibia, Botswana and maybe Zimbabwe tops).

The Dutch only lost the Cape when Napoleon made his brother Louis king of Holland. If you butterfly this away (or maybe if Napoleon annexes the Batavian republic without the republics consent), the Dutch could keep the Cape.
 

Arrix85

Donor
As I said an explanation is needed, It seems there is no PoD, the Dutch keeping Cape Town is a consequence of an unknown one, not a PoD in itself.
 
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As I said an explanation is needed, It seems there is no PoD, the Dutch keeping Cape Town is a consequence of an unknown one, not a PoD in itself.

That's why I needed help with the timeline and to make it plausible..maybe this is the wrong discussion forum, I was trying to make a contributing timeline where people would add plausibility to this timeline.

You have to admit a Afrikaner nation taking up half of Africa is a unique one.
 

Arrix85

Donor
To make it plausible I suggest you find a way to make the Dutch East India Company solvent ( A french involvement is unavoidable in the Netherlands and so the British occupation of Cape Town), so you don't have to go to the extreme of butterflyng away the Napoleonic Wars. With a solvent company this could start going your way, but you have to keep in mind that the famous Trek was a consequences of the British take-over and that was also possible because the lands in present-day Transvaal and Orange were scarcely populated.

The idea is interesting, just don't let the enthusiasm carry you too far away ( sacrificing plausibility)
 
One problem with a USO equivalent to the USA is, well, that the USA was able to expand so easily while keeping its culture intact because the natives were mostly dead, and lots of the ones who weren't got slaughtered.

Africa is more densely populated and the natives aren't dying from European diseases. So expansion is more difficult or else is going to introduce major cultural deformations that will have all sorts of knock-on effects and might even disrupt your state (for example, if the USO is a gigantic segregation, white democracy state, its going to have all sorts of race problems and probably outright revolts; on the other hand, if its some kind of state where all men are equal despite race (borderline ASB) then it frankly is going to have great difficulty attracting immigrants and its going to have great difficulty acting as a modern, western state given its huge population of Africans)

Also, the United States expansion from east to west is easy because you are staying in the same temperate zone, so crops and animals and environments aren't that different. Your USO is south to north with some vary different climates.


Finally, I've heard that there are some serious disease barriers as you go north until early in the 20th C.? Something I know nothing about, but FYI.
 
Maybe the expansion of Dutch South Africa could be helped by the surviving of the union between Belgium and Holland... so many Belgian dissidents fleed here.

I want to know if there will be an Italian comunity.;)
 
Maybe the expansion of Dutch South Africa could be helped by the surviving of the union between Belgium and Holland... so many Belgian dissidents fleed here.

I want to know if there will be an Italian comunity.;)

Most definitely there are Italian communities. Belgium didn't really get away from from the Netherlands in this timeline, although there would be conflicting issues with Walloon part of the United Netherlands. The Netherlands is considered by some to be a Great Power due to the big income and some resources from the colonies in Africa the economy is doing well, but with recessions here and there at some points.

About the Northern territories, They are much more sparsely populated with Afrikaners then the South. Due to remoteness, tribal issues, diseases. Life was rough and tough up North. And it got it's nicknames such as Ol' Rough North, "Ou ruwe noord" or The Wild North because of these issues. Also the map displayed is a map from 1935 in case you wanted to know.
 
And about asiatic comunities? I guess there will be many Indonesians, less Indians as OTL and Chinatowns everywhere.
 
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