The Old Pretenders Third Son

In 1727, James and Clementina Sobeskia reconciled after what had been thus far, a tumultuous marriage. Soon after Clementina in 1728 became pregnant but miscarried what would’ve been a boy born in 1729. So my question is what would become of this third son (I assume he’d be named James)? He’d only be 16 in 1745 so I don’t think he’d be able to play much of a part in the 45. And as for brides who might he marry?
 
In 1727, James and Clementina Sobeskia reconciled after what had been thus far, a tumultuous marriage. Soon after Clementina in 1728 became pregnant but miscarried what would’ve been a boy born in 1729. So my question is what would become of this third son (I assume he’d be named James)? He’d only be 16 in 1745 so I don’t think he’d be able to play much of a part in the 45. And as for brides who might he marry?

Probably end up living in Rome protected by the Pope like his parents and his brothers. Given that after 1745 the Bonnie Prince went into a moral and alcoholic decline (and even at one point abjured Catholicism in hopes that would garner support) and Henry became a Cardinal and tied to the Church, it would not be a stretch that as he aged and approached the end of his life (by 1766. Charles was a lost cause) that the Old Pretender would look to his third son as the continuer of the line.

He might marry a Catholic noble family who would regard even a third son of a pretender as a jump up, but perhaps even a younger daughter of Augustus III of Saxony/Poland (several option here)? He was a Sobieski after all and until the Revolution France (whose future monarch would also be part-Polish) would have quietly supported "James" married to a Saxon/Polish princess if he had challenged for the crown of Poland in 1764 over Stanislaw Poniatowski. Or you could have had "James" replace the Young Pretender in meetings with the France to launch an invasion of England in 1759. According to that certain wiki: "...at the height of the Seven Years' War, Charles was summoned to a meeting in Paris with the French foreign minister, the Duc De Choiseul. Charles failed to make a good impression, being argumentative and idealistic in his expectations. Choiseul was planning a full-scale invasion of England, involving upwards of 100,000 men—to which he hoped to add a number of Jacobites led by Charles. However, he was so little impressed with Charles, he dismissed the prospect of Jacobite assistance." Replace Charles with "James".
 
Or you could have had "James" replace the Young Pretender in meetings with the France to launch an invasion of England in 1759. According to that certain wiki: "...at the height of the Seven Years' War, Charles was summoned to a meeting in Paris with the French foreign minister, the Duc De Choiseul. Charles failed to make a good impression, being argumentative and idealistic in his expectations. Choiseul was planning a full-scale invasion of England, involving upwards of 100,000 men—to which he hoped to add a number of Jacobites led by Charles. However, he was so little impressed with Charles, he dismissed the prospect of Jacobite assistance." Replace Charles with "James".
That’s something I was thinking about. I was think maybe in the late 1740’s have James visit Charles in france as his fathers representative to tell him to calm down. Once he would refuse maybe James would invest responsibility in his youngest and make is son Prince Regent. I was thinking once James makes a good impression upon the Duc de Choiseul that he and the Duc d’Aguillon lead the 17,000 man diversionary force to Scotland to restore the Stuart’s. I think with that many French troops and enough arms the Highlanders would rise in the masses and a march on London could be wholly possible. There were only 6,000 troops in Scotland to defend it against the French and only a few more in England. What would happen when London is secured is up for debate. What would happen to Charles? He’d probably have to become King.
 
But if London is secured by the Jacobites what would become of the third son. He is Prince Regent but Charles would still probably have to ascend to the throne and I can imagine after his brother stole his title of Prince Regent Charles would be quite bitter.

And even if the Jacobites capture London with a fair amount of men would they be able to hold it? I’d assume a few nobles would come out and support the new King. I’d also assume the Hanoverians would put up a fight and just not let themselves loose one of the most powerful Kingdoms in the world.
 
Sorry for my late reply, just found this thread. Anyway, realistically the only difference would be the potential continuation of the Stuart line into the 19th century. @jb3, Prince James wouldn't be marrying a Saxon Princess, that's for sure. WAY too high ranking. Plus by the time James is marrying the Jacobite movement would have collapsed and James III would be aiming to secure his sons futures in the Papal states. So likely he looks for a wealthy Italian heiress from a family that see the Stuarts pretendership as more important than a match with money or lands. Now one can use the birth of a third son to start butterflies that would result in a Stuart Restoration, like your suggesting, but I don't see that happening. The 1759 invasion attempt was after the Stuart chances had died and a mere year before the accession of George III, a wholly English Hanoverian. And the Highlanders were entirely done after 1746, so no chance of a '59 rising. Really the Jacobites last chance was the '45 rising.

The only potential chance of a Stuart restoration coming out of this would be if Prince James's grandson married the TTL equivalent of Charlotte of Wales or Queen Victoria.
 
Sorry for my late reply, just found this thread. Anyway, realistically the only difference would be the potential continuation of the Stuart line into the 19th century. @jb3, Prince James wouldn't be marrying a Saxon Princess, that's for sure. WAY too high ranking. Plus by the time James is marrying the Jacobite movement would have collapsed and James III would be aiming to secure his sons futures in the Papal states. So likely he looks for a wealthy Italian heiress from a family that see the Stuarts pretendership as more important than a match with money or lands. Now one can use the birth of a third son to start butterflies that would result in a Stuart Restoration, like your suggesting, but I don't see that happening. The 1759 invasion attempt was after the Stuart chances had died and a mere year before the accession of George III, a wholly English Hanoverian. And the Highlanders were entirely done after 1746, so no chance of a '59 rising. Really the Jacobites last chance was the '45 rising.

The only potential chance of a Stuart restoration coming out of this would be if Prince James's grandson married the TTL equivalent of Charlotte of Wales or Queen Victoria.
So even if the son of James III had 20,000 French troops and arms, no one would rise?
 

Kaze

Banned
His only chance would be to marry someone with money. If not he would end his days much like his brothers.
 
Who was left to rise? The Highland clans had been massacred and disarmed by the Duke of Cumberland and most of the old Tory leadership had died in the early '50s.
I would think that if sufficent arms were held by the Jacobites, that the Highlanders would rise and be armed. And there were many left who supported the Jacobites in the 45. I found this at the back in a book the Tories and the 45, some on the list were the Duke of Bedford, Earl of Chesterfield, and most of Cobhams Cubs. If a rising lands and has success they may eventually be swayed.
 
I would think that if sufficent arms were held by the Jacobites, that the Highlanders would rise and be armed. And there were many left who supported the Jacobites in the 45. I found this at the back in a book the Tories and the 45, some on the list were the Duke of Bedford, Earl of Chesterfield, and most of Cobhams Cubs. If a rising lands and has success they may eventually be swayed.

I'm saying this as someone whose a Jacobite, NO. The '59 was a pipe dream that, if successful, would have resulted in a forced peace or a puppet state. This wouldn't be a Jacobite uprising backed by French troops but a French invasion with barely any Tory/Stuart veneer to hide behind.
 
I'm saying this as someone whose a Jacobite, NO. The '59 was a pipe dream that, if successful, would have resulted in a forced peace or a puppet state. This wouldn't be a Jacobite uprising backed by French troops but a French invasion with barely any Tory/Stuart veneer to hide behind.
Snap!

After the '45, a Complete Jacobite restoration is impossible. However should the few smallers Uprisings have success, E.g .The '08, the '15 and the '19 then the future exploits of the "Pretenders Sons" Charlie, Henry and James may have success. I imagine Charles will be much as OTL, as will Henry with joining the Church, but James may be the point. As a third son, he may join a Papal Army, and marry into the Roman Nobility, or a daughter of a Minor Italian principality.
 
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