I wanna see what the language we all speak would look like if Hardrada conquered England.
Check out various old threads by myself and others on this site. My Maralder thread is my most recent and comprehensive.

@BenDaCoolGuy Kent shouldn't really be called a county at this point. The Normans broke up the old Earldoms which were more like HRE duchies.
Also, why London?
 
I feel its because many of the more recent kings (of the time at least) were headquartered in the Palace of Westminster, both Canute the Great and Edward the Confessor held court there, and in OTL, it became permanent from William the Conqueror onwards.
 
I wonder what influence Old Norse would have on the development of the English language. Might see more Nordic influences than OTL.
Probably will end up being more or less more like a modernized Old English language if anything. With Harald coming out on top, already there is no gradual shift to the Middle English that we know of (due to a much smaller infusion of the French language into the Anglish lexicon ITTL.)
Definitely, the language will be more static but will begin to evolve with more Scandinavian characteristics.

How very interesting. Mercia and the south being devastated due to stronger resistance (Is there an reason for this? Or just because?) would seem to lean to the idea of England being much more Nordic with the North. No Harrying of the North and all that.)

It also gives me more hope of Harald not getting along with the English bishopic and doing want he did in Norway, and bringing in Eastern Roman and Kievan Rus priests and bishops and Eastern Orthodox Doctrine. (I'm never going to let this go. There been weirder and crazier religious matters in OLT. An England and Norway becoming Orthodox, or much like the Orthodox would be almost normal.)

I honeslty would love to see the next chapter, or so of Harald writing to the Eastern Roman Emperor of the time (Michael VII Doukas.) of his victory and all that.

And...get ready for Harald putting out Tostig's fires as I am sure the lands under him would revolt against him because he's just that bad of an ruler.

I got the burning of Mercia idea from Harald's campaigns in Sicily and Bulgaria, believing that he would find a strong push to the south would be the best bet to victory, no matter the cost.
Check out various old threads by myself and others on this site. My Maralder thread is my most recent and comprehensive.

@BenDaCoolGuy Kent shouldn't really be called a county at this point. The Normans broke up the old Earldoms which were more like HRE duchies.
Also, why London?

Ah.. you're right about Kent, I'll fix that. But I chose London as Harald's headquarters since it is the economic center of the region and is vital in the supply lines of any resistance that would attempt to rise.
 
But I chose London as Harald's headquarters since it is the economic center of the region and is vital in the supply lines of any resistance that would attempt to rise.
Not as much as you're probably assuming.
London wasn't really William's first choice OTL, nor did he base it on economics. As far as I can tell it's because it was the most important centre closest to Normandy that he had the most loyalty from.
 
A pretty good location for a base of operations for Harald would probably be in North East England. The site of OTL Newcastle or that general vicinity would be good for maintaining ties with Norway as it's a shorter journey.
 
Long term would England and Norway stay united? How likely is it for England to seperate from Norway, or vice-versa.
Realistically? They could stay united for 1 or 2 kings, maybe 3 if lucky, but it's very unlikely for them to stay united in the long term- at some point, a king is going to give his elder son England and his younger son Norway and they'll stay split.
 
Long term would England and Norway stay united? How likely is it for England to seperate from Norway, or vice-versa.
Realistically? They could stay united for 1 or 2 kings, maybe 3 if lucky, but it's very unlikely for them to stay united in the long term- at some point, a king is going to give his elder son England and his younger son Norway and they'll stay split.
As @TC9078 said, there's going to be a fairly early split of the kingdoms, and if there's a civil war era like in OTL, Norwegian power will surely be doomed. But what matters more than Norwegian power ITTL is the Scandinavian influence, and a potential new power rising out of a Scandinavian dominated north.
 
A pretty good location for a base of operations for Harald would probably be in North East England. The site of OTL Newcastle or that general vicinity would be good for maintaining ties with Norway as it's a shorter journey.
I'd say Lincoln would be a better spot. Not only is it a more Danish influenced town, it is about midway in England (North-South wise) and is strategically located on several roads routes.
 

trajen777

Banned
We
Chapter 2 - Harald's Might

View attachment 441107

"Harald Godwinson was struck by the thrust of a spear, and that was his death wound. He fell, and all who had advanced with him. There was afterwards a hasty conflict, and the fallen king's brother Leofwine had taken charge of England's tattered banner. They began on both sides to form their array again, and for a long time there was a pause in fighting. King Hardrade and his host had found themselves upon the edge of domination. Victory was close. Thiodolf then sang these verses:—
'Godwinson has fallen, the day is won;
Upon these fields, our deed is done.
From North to South, Harald shall reign.
Hard-fisted and well, this not be in vain.
Now one last fight shall finish it all
And by night and day, we'll feast in halls.
Now earls, now thegns, now dukes alike
will prosper under Harald's might.' " - Sturli Sturluson, Heimskringla, Harald Hardrade's Saga

-----

Harald Hardrade and Tostig sailed down the coast of England from Orkney late in August as the tides of the wind favored them. With a force numerating over ten thousand men, this was an even greater invasion than the Great Heathen Army two centuries back. Yet just as it was then, York
, the city of the North, was the target. After a long sail, they landed upon the soil of England on September 2nd. Scarborough was raided first, and then followed Hardrade's sailing down the Humber River to attack York from the south. They met resistance at Fulford, south of York, where Dukes Edwin of Mercia and Morcar of Northumbria wished to protect their lands from the invaders, but as they were heavily outnumbered, their men started to falter and the battle was lost. Not shortly after, York too was taken by the Northmen (and was spared on Tostig's wishes). Hardrade, quickly repelling much of his opponents, set camp at the village near Stamford Bridge in order to start collecting hostages which would increase pressure upon Harold Godwinson.

What he did not know though, was that Godwinson was already marching towards York as fast as he could. With Godwinson came an army of nine thousand to eleven thousand men, many of which were already battered up from the battle with the Normans only two weeks before. Harold arrived at Tadcaster, a neighboring town of York, on the 12th of September, resting his men from the week-long march they had embarked upon. This resting force was spotted by Norwegian scouts who reported the army to Hardrade just a day before the battle.

The battle of Stamford Bridge commenced on a mild day, the Norwegians waiting for the English to arrive as they ate their breakfast. Then as the sun rose over the heads of thousands of soldiers, did the English appear from the other side of the river. Hardrade had been awaiting this moment; he spread his best men behind his levies and prepared in shield wall as Godwinson advanced. When both armies collided, the fighting went on for hours, the spears and swords clashing against each other furiously. But as time passed, the English grew more and more tired, as their hasty march had fatigued them, and their numbers were already slightly outmatched. Eystein Orre, a prestigious Norwegian noble, broke a unit in the line of the English, and as his experienced men moved forward, Harold Godwinson was slain, delivering a crushing blow to the Saxon army. The Enlgish tried to hold on under the command of his brothers, but as they routed, many drowned in the river behind them. Under Leofwine Godwinson, the Saxon army retreated to London, where a final resistance would be attempted to be mounted. England was not yet won.

~~~~~​

Note: Andddd I'm back. I've always tried to get back to this TL, this forum in fact, but I could never bring myself to 100 percent completion. But as I've started to involve myself into Alternate History once more, and study more medieval history, I've picked up inspiration again. So I apologize for the wait (a very long one indeed), but I hope the chapter proved itself. In this one, Godwinson has a much smaller army, noticeably dies, noticeably loses, but the fight still rages on, much as it did after the Battle of Hastings. Also, more English nobles (including the Godwinson brothers so Edgar Ætheling will not be as important) survived as the English and Norwegian armies were technologically and tactically on the same par. Now, the next fight for England emerges. And as always, feel free to leave any criticism you please, be it positive or negative, and have a great day!


Welcome back ...just finished a book on cnut .. So great timing
 
wow, surprised I didn't find this TL until now.

Now here's to hoping Magnus dies and Harald can re-create Canute's empire. Though there will always be the problem of dividing the Kingdoms upon the kings death. I don't know about the plausibility of unionizing the crowns as there didn't seem much political will to do so even though it would have been cool.

Maybe Harald can utilize English manpower to conquer Alba? Would certainly be a first for the Scandinavians. Ireland could be conquered and given to some English lords to Placate them. I wonder about the possibility of this new England invading Normandy, the Idea of a Scandivized England during a Hundred years war situation would be very interesting.

Also on people saying English could be used to build cities in Norway could they also be used to build cities in Ireland or the Baltic?
 
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