The Norse Mega-Wank

Ok, imagine the Kalmar Union doesn't fall apart, and somehow survives unharmed until Lief Erikson discovers the new world, and thus the Kalmar become the biggest colonial power in a centuries-older New World rush. What magics would the puppet master have to perform in order to make a Norse U.S. and modern day Kalmar Union feasible? I know there must be a lot of Kalmar union TLs, but imagine the biggest wank of a TL for the Kalmar possible.
 
Ok, imagine the Kalmar Union doesn't fall apart, and somehow survives unharmed until Lief Erikson discovers the new world, and thus the Kalmar become the biggest colonial power in a centuries-older New World rush. What magics would the puppet master have to perform in order to make a Norse U.S. and modern day Kalmar Union feasible? I know there must be a lot of Kalmar union TLs, but imagine the biggest wank of a TL for the Kalmar possible.

Lief Erikson was born, active, and his discoveries largely meaningless several centuries before the Kalmar Union came into being.

So for starters, the puppet master should figure out how to have one or the other ISOTed.
 
Woops, didn't remember the timing right for that. Guess someone else would have to be invented to carry out the deed of discovering the New World.
He would have to be Norse, of course. (Wee rhymes!) And get there before Columbus.
 
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The obvious question is why any Norse sailor would do that in the circumstances of the 15th century. Or at least, be financed by the king to do that - the Union Kings are busy with other things tying up their attention and finances.

I don't want to be a wet blanket, just trying to see what obstacles get in the way so that solutions can be proposed that confront them rather than ignore them - kinda pointless to wank Kalmar in a way that would only work if everyone else is passive.
 
I don't think it would be a calculated decision or state-funded expedition, more like a sailor getting lost near Greenland and ending up on Ellesmere. Somehow he realizes it is not Greenland and makes it back. Then after that there would be a reason for the Kalmar to look westerly, because there was new land. (And not a frozen waste like Greenland!
 
I don't think it would be a calculated decision or state-funded expedition, more like a sailor getting lost near Greenland and ending up on Ellesmere. Somehow he realizes it is not Greenland and makes it back. Then after that there would be a reason for the Kalmar to look westerly, because there was new land. (And not a frozen waste like Greenland!

"New land" does not mean land anyone has any interest in, though.

"Hey, it's better than Greenland!" is not a good selling point.
 
Hahahah, yah I definitely see your point. In fact, it's staring back quite menacingly. OOH! I think I got it, what if religious outcasts from the Reformation went to the new land searching for escape from the pressures in Denmark. They could start a colony big enough to draw the attention of more colonists who would go out searching for adventure, new lives, all that usual garbage. If all of a sudden there was a new Norse colony in an unexploited land of temperate weather, what would make the Kalmar not want to claim it for the crown?
 
I'd say it's possible for Scandinavian religious exiles to found a colony in the New World, but it probably wouldn't be as significant as you're hoping. For one thing, you don't need to get across the Atlantic to get to underpopulated pagan territory--there's a lot of that in Sweden and Finland already. For another, anything that's economically prosperous enough to be a bonus to the Union King (aside: calling the united government simply "Kalmar" is as erroneous as calling the USA "Philadelphia") will be just as handy to the English or French King, and those are more powerful and better positioned to control trans-Atlantic access.
 
It is not that unfeasible to have a Scandinavian presence in North America in the late middle ages. A few decades before the Kalmar Union, Sweden and Norway had the same king, and reports came that the western settlement of Greenland had left and joined the pagans beyond the western sea.

Suppose that there had been greater communications with the central power, and that this migration had been actively supported by the king, sending some troops and additional colonists. If this occurs around 1340, a decade or so before the plague, we might find a fair number of people who are willing to try out an unknown land.

This first wave founds some villages, and since the crown makes sure of continuous communications and supervision, there is a steady trickle of newcomers every year, so additional villages and even towns are built. By 1500, they, optimistically, could have taken the whole of Newfoundland, but that is a large area, and they are still few.

In the age of explorations, 1500-1700, they do have an advantage to other European powers, since they already have a foothold, know the lay of the land, and are close to their bases, so the final result might be that approximately Canada is Scandinavian, while the US area is taken by others.
 
It is not that unfeasible to have a Scandinavian presence in North America in the late middle ages. A few decades before the Kalmar Union, Sweden and Norway had the same king, and reports came that the western settlement of Greenland had left and joined the pagans beyond the western sea.

Suppose that there had been greater communications with the central power, and that this migration had been actively supported by the king, sending some troops and additional colonists. If this occurs around 1340, a decade or so before the plague, we might find a fair number of people who are willing to try out an unknown land.

I think you overestimate the level of enthusiasm people would have for a new land far away from a far from overpopulated or otherwise pressured population that has opportunities closer to home.
 
I think you overestimate the level of enthusiasm people would have for a new land far away from a far from overpopulated or otherwise pressured population that has opportunities closer to home.
No, not really.

1 The first wave is the actual OTL migration of the Greenlandic western settlement. Here I have only added a few soldiers and officials and some others to help bring it about.

2 The steady trickle consists of a few households every year, from eastern Greenland, from Iceland, and from Scandinavia. Not very many, but still a continuous expansion.

The entire eastern Greenlandic settlement was slowly abandoned OTL. Some moved to Iceland, some were taken by pirates, some joined the Inuits, and some died. Having them ATL all go to Wineland where conditions are slightly less harsh is not that farfetched, especially when they have over a century to do it 1350-1500, and are actively supported by the united Scandinavian government that ATL is not bothered by any uprisings and civil wars. Wineland could be used to vent the steam and give the malcontents an emigration option, while staying subjects of the crown.

Life in Scandinavia after the plague of the 1350s was harsh and people often starved. Some of them might prefer moving to a place with rich fishing opportunities, if they are informed of such.
 
No, not really.

1 The first wave is the actual OTL migration of the Greenlandic western settlement. Here I have only added a few soldiers and officials and some others to help bring it about.

2 The steady trickle consists of a few households every year, from eastern Greenland, from Iceland, and from Scandinavia. Not very many, but still a continuous expansion.

The entire eastern Greenlandic settlement was slowly abandoned OTL. Some moved to Iceland, some were taken by pirates, some joined the Inuits, and some died. Having them ATL all go to Wineland where conditions are slightly less harsh is not that farfetched, especially when they have over a century to do it 1350-1500, and are actively supported by the united Scandinavian government that ATL is not bothered by any uprisings and civil wars. Wineland could be used to vent the steam and give the malcontents an emigration option, while staying subjects of the crown.

Life in Scandinavia after the plague of the 1350s was harsh and people often starved. Some of them might prefer moving to a place with rich fishing opportunities, if they are informed of such.

Life carving a colony out of wilderness far from any support (officials or not, any defense of the colony is going to be by its own manpower for the most part) is hardly something we can describe as "easy" by any stretch of the imagination in any scenario, especially northeastern North America.

And when the plague is leaving farms abandoned (because of depopulation), it's easier to find farmland near home than to make it from the raw wilderness - so why starvation will be more of a problem there than in the New World is something I'd really like to see explained.
 
Scandinavia has a long history exporting its population surplus overseas.

However, Elfwine makes a good point that after the plague, there is plenty of farmland and no population surplus.

Generally, when considering a Vinland settlement, the test questin I ask myself is "Why would peple go to Vinland rather than Ireland or Russia?" Depending on the timeframe. Vinland was known of in medieval times. There just wasn't anything that made it more attractive than the much closer Russia.

Greenland is fine though, they had a good reason to prefer Vinland to Russia, proximity.

You could have a wave of people fleeing the plague and going for Vinland because it is far away, I suppose. Bit grisly in some cases.
 
You could have Icelanders emigrating for better wood supply, and better fishing.

You could have Finns emigrating for better slash-and-burn farming opportunities.
 
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