The Ninth Crusade (my first TL)

Dr. Strangelove

Banned
I hope for your own good this timeline features spanish helicopters attacking a Vietcong base while using Torito Guapo as a psychological warfare tool.

"We use El Fary. Charlie can't stand El Fary".
 

Faralis

Dr. Strangelove said:
I hope for your own good this timeline features spanish helicopters attacking a Vietcong base while using Torito Guapo as a psychological warfare tool.

"We use El Fary. Charlie can't stand El Fary".
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Goldstein said:
:D

It would, for sure, if it weren't so anachronistic (Torito Guapo is from 1984).
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You two are evil evil persons for promoting torture in despicable terms...

Of course the vengeance will be when in 30 or 40 years the Vietnamese create their variant of reaggeton to destroy our poor ATL ears ...


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I hate dystopias :D
 

naraht

Relations with the 3rd Reich?

Given that Spain declared war on Japan, do Germany or Italy care at all?
 

Dr. Strangelove

Banned
SeanPdineen said:
Franco was many things. An anti semite he was not.
He saved Jews and repealed the edit of enclusion
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This canard again.

Franco didn't save jews. Spanish embassy employees did, against their superiors' orders. Being jewish was technically illegal in Spain until 1970. Franco refused to recognize Israel and sold weapons to the Arab states, the only Western state to do so. He kept ranting about a jewish conspiracy to destroy Spain until his last public appearance in October 1975.
 

Sean Mulligan

Banned
Spanish involvement in Vietnam would add credibility to charges by the peace movement that the war in Vietnam was a Fascist War.
 

hfegelein

Goldstein said:
The truth is IOTL, from late 1943 to early 1945, Spain was seriously considering to declare war to Japan. This is a little known fact I'm having fun with. Making it join the allies is admitedly a bit of a stretch, considering Roosevelt's understandable uninterest, but Spain at the time seriously needed international recognition so I'm making it go for it. One can say the POD is that people in the council of ministers after the Laurel incindent get a bit more nervous about the filtrations and don't call America's bluff. Just wait and see, I'm already cooking an update.
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I find it amusing that the Nationalists were "appalled" by Japan's behavior, considering that their track record was less than stellar on the human-rights/war crimes front. :p
 

hfegelein

Dr. Strangelove said:
This canard again.

Franco didn't save jews. Spanish embassy employees did, against their superiors' orders. Being jewish was technically illegal in Spain until 1970. Franco refused to recognize Israel and sold weapons to the Arab states, the only Western state to do so. He kept ranting about a jewish conspiracy to destroy Spain until his last public appearance in October 1975.
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Finally, someone says it. I seriously hate it when some Franco apologist says "Franco wasn't a fascist! (ignorant of the fact that Fascism doesn't mean "anti-Semitic" by default, whereas National "Socialism" does) He saved the Jews!" :mad: One of the biggest proofs that Franco was anti-Semitic was the fact that he kept a portrait of Hitler beside his bed for many years. Classy...
 
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hfegelein

Goldstein said:
...The cumulative total of aid given during the Marshall Plan from 1948 to 1951 ascended to 1.064 million U.S. Dollars of the time. The impact this has had in the Spanish Miracle of the 50s and 60s has been greatly overrated, as a great part of it went destinated to the modernization of the Spanish Army, preparing it to the role it would play during most of the Cold War”
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Out of curiosity, since Spain is part of NATO (atleast I'm assuming it is), will it be buying its weapons from West Germany? After all, the Spanish are most familiar with German tanks and airplanes, and being that they can trade with West Germany as they are a member of NATO and less of a pariah state, it seems likely.
 

Goldstein

Banned
hfegelein said:
Out of curiosity, since Spain is part of NATO (atleast I'm assuming it is), will it be buying its weapons from West Germany? After all, the Spanish are most familiar with German tanks and airplanes, and being that they can trade with West Germany as they are a member of NATO and less of a pariah state, it seems likely.
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My next update will cover that. But I'll tell you, you are assuming too much.
 

Antonio

hfegelein said:
Out of curiosity, since Spain is part of NATO (atleast I'm assuming it is), will it be buying its weapons from West Germany? After all, the Spanish are most familiar with German tanks and airplanes, and being that they can trade with West Germany as they are a member of NATO and less of a pariah state, it seems likely.
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Actually, there was quite a bit of cooperation between the FRG and Franco's Spain, mostly in the '50s, though. The Bundeswehr even adopted the CETME assault rifle (produced in Spain by a German exile, based on the StG 45) before switching to the G3, a homegrown variant built by H&K.
 

Linense

Honestly, I'm very surprised to see an alternate history where Francoist Spain is one of the Allies against the Axis (I doubt that Hitler would stay calm before the Franco's treachery to the Axis, and he would ordered an invasion of the Iberian Peninsula), although I had read some articles that Franco was thinking like declaring war on Japan because of the Japanese killings on Spanish settled in the Philippines .

I wonder the Spanish participation in the European theater of World War II. Is it also invaded Vichy France from the Pyrenees?

What would happen to the fifth seat of the Security Council of United Nations? It was given to France by De Gaulle ruled by Britain wanted a partner colonialist to curb decolonizing campaign aimed both the United States and the Soviet Union. However, Spain's presence among the Allies, we could see the contribution of the Free French as too low for the fifth seat of the Security Council of United Nations, and perhaps that position would end up in a united India.
 

mrmandias

Based on the the 'three wars' theory the author has described, it sounds like Franco remains neutral with the Vichy and the Nazis.

Linense said:
Honestly, I'm very surprised to see an alternate history where Francoist Spain is one of the Allies against the Axis (I doubt that Hitler would stay calm before the Franco's treachery to the Axis, and he would ordered an invasion of the Iberian Peninsula), although I had read some articles that Franco was thinking like declaring war on Japan because of the Japanese killings on Spanish settled in the Philippines .

I wonder the Spanish participation in the European theater of World War II. Is it also invaded Vichy France from the Pyrenees?

What would happen to the fifth seat of the Security Council of United Nations? It was given to France by De Gaulle ruled by Britain wanted a partner colonialist to curb decolonizing campaign aimed both the United States and the Soviet Union. However, Spain's presence among the Allies, we could see the contribution of the Free French as too low for the fifth seat of the Security Council of United Nations, and perhaps that position would end up in a united India.
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