The NextGen OTL Worlda Series

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by hadaril, Jan 30, 2018.

Loading...
  1. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    If I could snap my fingers and make every worlda on this site equirectangular, I would do it. Unfortunately we're stuck with the unwieldy pseudo-Kav map we have, and at this point it's too late to change that.
     
    Christory, Guaire and CtrlAltHistory like this.
  2. Ivoshafen Just A Man From Gondor - Recovering from SATS

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Indiǣna
    If I remember, it used to be the case, but we moved on and produced the worlda.

    Honestly, I don't understand the hate for the worlda, especially when we have basically every epoch of human history drawn out on them, yea it has quirks compared to other map projections, but if you learn the projection it's no harder to work with than any other format. At least I've never had issues with it, and I've been doing cartography for nearly four years now. Maybe I'm just blind.
     
  3. APeninSpace What are you even meant to put here?

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Location:
    New Holland
    I mean, I've never been one to be able to draw realistic borders. The worlda is useful because I can see where the geographical boundaries are.
     
    Ivoshafen likes this.
  4. Entrerriano Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    That, my friend, is an interesting challenge. I might try to do one just for fun.
     
    Admiral A. Kolchak likes this.
  5. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    The problem is that if you're trying to map out an area towards the edge of the worlda it's really frustrating because of the distortion, which makes tracing from reference maps impossible without spending a lot of time messing with re-projection software. Also the fact that straight vertical lines aren't straight is nonsensical and has caused no end of trouble for anyone who wants to use the worlda. Basically there's just zero reason to prefer the current worlda over an equivalent equirectangular.
     
  6. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    I wasn't going to say it, but I really do agree. It isn't a rational reason, I know, but by god it's a defining part of this site, and it's been around for nearly a decade now.
     
    Viralworld and Ivoshafen like this.
  7. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    Personally this is my biggest gripe with the worlda, but over time I've gotten pretty good at reprojecting in photoshop, it just takes a few minutes (Essentially, tracing the longitude/latitude lines on the base map, using a long/lat version of the worlda, and distorting the base map so they line up; using rivers also helps to line up point to point).

    While I agree it would be sped up by changing the projection, it would require more than a years worth of work for me to even get half of this series redrawn completely, not to mention the time it would take to create a equirectangular, worlda sized base map. If I could instantly make every map on this site equirectangular, I would, but the immense amount of work for what I perceive to be marginal time saving gains just doesn't add up for me, personally.

    As for the straight lines, I'm going to be fixing the Australian/USA state borders when I get up to them in my revision process so that they actually follow the correct vertical paths.
     
    Ivoshafen and Viralworld like this.
  8. RMcD94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Location:
    Dominion of Scotland, Imperial Commonwealth
    Is there a version of 2019 without internal borders?
     
  9. RMcD94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Location:
    Dominion of Scotland, Imperial Commonwealth
    With equirectangular maps not only can you convert to any projection but it's incredibly easy even for amateurs to change the centre point of the map. With most other projections you have to redo everything if you want to change the centre. Now obviously history is quite eurocentric but there are a lot of parts of the world that prefer having themselves centred and if I was producing and using maps for a timeline centred on Japan I'd like to centre Japan, for thematic reasons and also to better highlight the important parts.

    This discussion is very much a shining example of the sunk cost fallacy. 10 years of effort has gone into worlda so let's spend the next 50 years using worlda? How is that logical? Obviously everyone here does this in their free time but a big reason that so much effort goes into so many maps is that the mechanics for fixing and navigating the maps is terrible. Indexes of indexes of searching forum threads, look at other open source software which is basically what maps are, imagine if github was like this.

    Creating a tool which would allow people to submit corrections for a small part of the map, allow those corrections to be voted on, and then applied to the base after a certain threshold or by admin approval would make collaborative effort much easier. If I could snap my fingers that's what I'd do. The ideal program you'd have a list of time periods, clicking on one would show you a list of projections and resolutions, then you could select any of them highlight the part you think is wrong, correct it and submit. You'd use layers to turn colours, rivers, lakes, internal borders, topography, etc on and off. Instead everyone has layers saved on their own PC and people need to repeat others works to get a map the way they want. How many people do you think have done the same thing on copies of maps, thousands of manhours. I digress, if wishes were horses... (Indeed the best use of layers would be to record every single border change in all of history, allowing people to simply select an exact date and select all layers up until then).
     
  10. Viralworld Éirí Amach an Ghealach Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Location:
    The Villehardouin Principality of Achea
    As someone who has endless difficulty trying to reproject a basemap, do you think you could upload a little tutorial on how to reproject a basemap in Photoshop?
     
    Shaymin0000 and hadaril like this.
  11. Admiral A. Kolchak Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    I don't use photoshop. So basically I'm always going to be screwed.
     
  12. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    I'll try to create a graphic on how to do it by the end of the day! It'll be for Photoshop, but I'm sure the process should be able to be replicated in Paint.net or GIMP.

    As to other agreements for the worlda: the projection is highly compatible with other maps on the site. While the weird projection of the worlda isn't used elsewhere, the QBAM, MBAM, MicroWorlda, etc, are all based on the same projection. Upscaling worldas or downscaling the other versions can be useful methods for making different versions of each person's timeline; i.e, if I have my overview map done in worlda, and I want to make a larger version in Qbam, I can rescale my worlda as an overlay to trace as a starting point.

    Remaking the worlda in an equirectangular projection doesn't just mean remaking the worlda - it also impacts the usefulness of the worlda in relationship to the other, much larger, projects on the site.

    My argument for keeping the worlda isn't entirely based on the sunk cost fallacy, but also out of the practicality and usefulness the worlda already has. While I 100% agree equirectangular maps are easier to work with, I stand by my opinion that the usefulness of the pre-existing collection, ubiquity, and internal compatibility of worldas.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
    Viralworld likes this.
  13. Threadmarks: Re-projecting tutorial

    hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    [​IMG]

    The rivers map has been uploaded to the main post. I hope this helps!
     
  14. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    is this in photoshop?
     
  15. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    The rivers map link isn't working for whatever reason, so here's a direct upload of it.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    Yes, but there should be an equivalent tool in gimp and pdn. The process works more or less the same way.
     
    ST15RM likes this.
  17. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    could i do topography?
     
    Viralworld and hadaril like this.
  18. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    not pdn. maybe gimp, but i dunno.
     
  19. hadaril Imperial Cartographer of the Holy Roman Empire

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Location:
    Dreaming of a Holy Roman Empire
    Sure! Knock yourself out, I've never been patient enough to do topography maps myself, lmao.
     
    ST15RM likes this.
  20. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    i’ll start work next month if you don’t mind
     
    hadaril likes this.
Loading...