The New Transport America: A Collaborative TL

FDW

Banned
Makes sense. One of those is actually being proposed in one of Amtrak's latest plans for Next-Gen HSR (i.e. moving beyond Acela).

So yeah, I envision the "Second Stage" NEC to operating Second Generation Metroliners capable 145-150 mph (Though average speed will still be around 110 mph south of New York, and maybe 70 or so north of it). Meanwhile, California will be using Third Generation HSR equipment from Japan capable of 180-185 mph (With a much higher average, around 150 mph). This will be how things are circa 1985.

Oh, that's a give-in in any case - particularly the LIRR and Metro North. To me, PATH is unique in that it doesn't fit neatly into either a subway or suburban rail mould (in fact, to me, the PATH is basically a modernized interurban railway), almost like the so-called Mattapan "High-Speed" Railway on the MBTA's Red Line (which basically is the last remaining streetcar line in New England, one of the few which still operates PCC streetcars, and the only one in the US which runs through a cemetery on its regular run :eek:).

Here in the Bay Area, BART has a station in one of the world's largest necropolises.

Put that way, running trains to Newark International (I refuse to call it Liberty International, as I view it as a post-9/11 rebranding) makes sense. In fact, if the expansion of PATH was smart, an extension to Newark International would be included. Thus making more sense than linking up with Pan Am at JFK.

I've had this idea for a express service (using HSR trains) that would operate between LAX and Ontario International airport behind security. I think this idea could be put into play for Newark and JFK.

For air travel, I would hope to see a revival of the classical age of air travel, not in the walking out on the runway bit, but giving passengers legroom and not sardine-room, stewardesses that actually take a liking to their job and make you feel welcome on the plane, and really decent food. And prices that aren't utterly ridiculous along with nickel-and-dime charges, ridiculous security screening. I'd like to fly to Atlanta for less than $100 if I'm within 300 miles of it, or to New York for maybe $150-200, and to Europe for at most $500-$750. There's no reason in my mind that flying anywhere in the continental US should cost more than $300 to practically anywhere. Airports should also have rail stations to take you into the city center in most major US cities, like they do already in Europe.

Those are my ideas.

The revival of classical air travel is not going to happen, because HSR is going to be decimating a lot of air traffic corridors TTL. Also, those prices are completely arbitrary and nonsensical because of inflation.
 

JJohnson

Banned
The revival of classical air travel is not going to happen, because HSR is going to be decimating a lot of air traffic corridors TTL. Also, those prices are completely arbitrary and nonsensical because of inflation.

My comment is less inflation than the price of $210 for a 346 mile journey, or $424 to New York seems hefty and inflated with unions, regulations, and bureaucracy. That's another day though. If we got decent high speed rail like I was writing, air would have to lower prices to stay competitive, or offer more value, such as leg room, no ridiculous baggage fees, better meals, better customer service, and so on. Competition does that.
 

FDW

Banned
My comment is less inflation than the price of $210 for a 346 mile journey, or $424 to New York seems hefty and inflated with unions, regulations, and bureaucracy. That's another day though. If we got decent high speed rail like I was writing, air would have to lower prices to stay competitive, or offer more value, such as leg room, no ridiculous baggage fees, better meals, better customer service, and so on. Competition does that.

Unions and regulation don't have much to with the cost of the ticket, in fact the Airlines in the US were deregulated in the late 1970's. It's rising cost of fuel, increasingly older fleets of aircraft and other infrastructure, and increased competition for slots at major airports that drive prices. If anything, with HSR ITTL, short distance air travel in HSR corridors would probably cost more than OTL.
 
So yeah, I envision the "Second Stage" NEC to operating Second Generation Metroliners capable 145-150 mph (Though average speed will still be around 110 mph south of New York, and maybe 70 or so north of it). Meanwhile, California will be using Third Generation HSR equipment from Japan capable of 180-185 mph (With a much higher average, around 150 mph). This will be how things are circa 1985.

Unless the original trainsets are so popular in California that somebody forgets to order the 3rd-gen trainsets. :p;) Look at how, for example, France still runs TGV trainsets from the 1980s, and even in Japan the preference still remains for running older trainsets wherever possible.

Here in the Bay Area, BART has a station in one of the world's largest necropolises.

Point taken.

I've had this idea for a express service (using HSR trains) that would operate between LAX and Ontario International airport behind security. I think this idea could be put into play for Newark and JFK.

That would be cool.

Anyway - OK, so with apologies to Air Canada, Eurostar, SNCF, Renfe, and a bunch of other people, here’s my conception for Acela done right based around the same 1990s design timeframe as OTL. Now, IIRC when Amtrak conceived the Acela service, it was more than just simply a rebranding of its NEC services or even the HSR service, but – much like Saturn for GM, as I’ve mentioned before – it was a reconception of and an attempt at improving Amtrak’s existing NEC services. No wonder, for example, why during the Acela branding campaign early on much focus was on it being “rail travel for the 21st century”. The trouble, of course, was that due to Amtrak’s limited budget the vision for Acela was well ahead of its time, to the point where there was mass rider confusion between the HSR Acela Express (with its dedicated trainset, with its well-known early reliability problems) and the non-HSR Acela Regional (which was basically “remodeled” :rolleyes: Amfleet equipment with the HHP-8 locomotive, with the latter’s own reliability problems). That was a big source of the trouble with Acela from the very beginning. To reconceptualize the NEC as a result, the first thing which has to be done is a clearer distinction between HSR and non-HSR services.

As such, in this case Acela is used for HSR services almost exclusively and NortheastDirect for non-HSR services. NortheastDirect can retain Business Class and Coach Class with First Class sleeper service (the latter as part of the “Twilight Shoreliner” overnight train), and here NortheastDirect also covers the Empire and Keystone Corridors; maybe even the Vermonter, Ethan Allen Express (including the extension to Burlington), and Downeaster as well (of which the *Downeaster would be the only NortheastDirect line isolated from the rest of the network, due to its terminus at Boston’s North Station (rather than South Station, where virtually all of Amtrak’s service originate)). NortheastDirect would thus continue much of Amtrak’s service in the Northeast, though would indirectly benefit from any improvements to the track and even the “experience” courtesy of Acela (i.e. improved amenities); thus NortheastDirect would be a much-improved version of conventional Amtrak service and hence fulfills the same role of OTL’s Acela Regional (currently, ironically enough, given a “compromise” brand, in my opinion, of “Northeast Regional”). Note that, as already stated, the one exception to the HSR/non-HSR distinction would be the Clocker, which would be rebranded the Acela Commuter (as in OTL). The Clocker, in fact, really does not fit in well with the regular NEC services (though it was not unique back when Amtrak started up in the 1970s, when reading the old timetables). Why? Unlike the reconceptualized NortheastDirect, the Clocker was an unreserved economy-class only train only operating during rush hour – and yet still remained popular. As a stand-alone service, it would be perfect; as part of the HSR network, whilst not HSR itself, it’s fast enough that it could pass. Acela Commuter, therefore, would be the only portion of the Acela network which would receive the same treatment Acela Regional got in OTL, and in fact Acela Commuter would be integrated into the Acela system in terms of travel classes, ticket fares, brand identity, and the like.

To make it easier to type out the different Acela sub-services, I'll use the same abbreviations Amtrak used with Acela in OTL, back when it was brand new. Therefore, from now on Acela Express will be Acela EX, Acela Regional will be Acela RS, and Acela Commuter will be Acela CS throughout this post. As stated earlier, Acela CS is the only non-HSR service in the Acela network, whilst Acela EX and Acela RS will be dedicated HSR services. As I'm seeing it, Acela RS would be as fast as Acela EX is in OTL and even follow the same coastal route between Boston and Washington; having said that, I could see Acela RS service expand beyond this to include more destinations – including connections to Canada. As an HSR service, Acela RS could be expanded to include Toronto (via the Empire Corridor from NYC) and Montréal (from both NYC and Boston). Maybe even extending the Keystone Corridor to include Pittsburgh – and thus include Pittsburgh into the Acela network via Acela RS. Acela EX, however, would maintain its OTL “premium” HSR cachet and remain a NEC-only service between Boston, NYC, and DC. In keeping with the latest proposals on next-gen HSR that Amtrak has proposed (and I know deh74 would go after me for this), in order for Acela EX to have a higher speed levels (and thus shorten travel times considerably), the train would almost need a separate track for the Boston-NYC leg. Amtrak's current OTL plans call for using the MBTA Commuter Rail’s Franklin Line for this purpose, going as far south as Woonsocket, RI (of which connections to Providence could be ameliorated via collaboration between the MBTA, RIDOT, and the P&W), and then dedicated track and/or existing (mostly under-utilized) freight rail track from Woonsocket to Hartford, then following the Hartford-Springfield Line Shuttle to New Haven, and following the NEC from there (and even there, Amtrak's plans show the service as being more or less a diagonal line from Hartford to NYC – who knows what they are thinking?); I'll have Acela EX follow more or less the same route, which means reconstructing the Franklin Line, raising the platforms on the Commuter Rail stations where possible to comply with the ADA, and building new track and electrifying existing track.

Getting back to Acela RS, an advantage to its wide network is that within the service it could specialize quite a bit – almost like the “airline within an airline” concept Delta and United tried with Song and Ted, respectively, to compete with jetBlue (and even Air Canada, from where I'm taking the concept from and give my apologies in more ways than one, against certain domestic competition). As I see it, there are three main sub-services within the main Acela RS service – Acela RS Tango, Acela RS Jazz, and Acela RS Lunéa. Acela RS Jazz would be the normal HSR service, Acela RS Lunéa would be overnight HSR sleeper service, and Acela RS Tango would be affordable no-frills economy-class service on major busy routes in the Acela RS network (taking the Acela Commuter concept and applying it to HSR, essentially) as well as seasonal HSR service to Vermont. There may be more if needed, but those three are the core sub-brands. For parallels with Air Canada, Acela RS Tango and Acela RS Jazz are modelled on the defunct Air Canada Tango and Air Canada Jazz (the latter now existing as Air Canada Express), whilst Acela RS Lunéa borrows the name from a former SNCF brand for its overnight services whilst modelled on Renfe's Elipsos “trainhotel” (it's actually pretty neat; sadly it's limited only to Madrid-Lisbon, when only a couple of years ago it had service to Paris and Geneva and an extensive domestic network).

Another area of Acela which could have used more creativity in OTL, and which (as you can probably) I'm liberally applying for TTL, is also reimagining the travel classes (and hence the ticket fares). With the exception of the Club Car (originally used on the Metroliner), the travel classes are going to be renamed and the interiors redesigned, closely following that Acela corporate design article I linked to earlier. For daytime, therefore, Coach, Business, and First Classes would be renamed to suit Acela – and once again, more apologies to Air Canada as part of it actually follows their ticket fare policy and, in fact, using old names they used for economy class and business class, which I reappropriated for different purposes. On Acela EX, similar to Eurostar, First Class will be split into two different First Classes to suit two different markets, the leisure travel market and the business travel market (though budget-conscious business travellers are more than welcome to use the first class designed for leisure travel); Eurostar's Standard Premier and Business Premier are translated into TTL's Acela as Hospitality Service and Executive Service. Acela RS trains may offer First Class outside of the NYC-DC route, though it would be limited to Toronto-NYC, Montréal-NYC, and Boston-NYC (here due to Acela RS following the OTL coastal route); on Acela RS, First Class would be renamed as Club. Following SNCF vis-à-vis their ticketing policy with the TGV, Club tickets have 4 different types depending on the type of seat chosen – Club Quattro, for 4 seats facing a table; Club Duo, for 2 seats facing a table; Duo, for 2 seats facing seatbacks (though I'm open to renaming it, if it's too confusing); and Solo, for a single seat facing a seatback. Business Class on both Acela EX and Acela RS would be renamed Latitude, and on Acela RS Coach class retains the reserved/unreserved distinction. Unreserved Coach class would be renamed Encore, and Reserved Coach (which, for Acela purposes, would be branded as being “designed with frequent travellers in mind”, with a choice of a seat in Latitude but with economy-class service or advanced seat selection in the economy-class section) would be renamed Flex. Acela CS, of course, has only Encore. For Acela RS Lunéa, in keeping with I had said earlier about retaining the slumbercoaches (known as couchettes in Europe), these would also remain here. Now, traditionally American slumbercoaches had single and double rooms, whilst European couchettes tend to have either 4 bunks (the so-called 1st-class couchettes) or 6 bunks (the so-called 2nd-class couchettes). Tough decision here. (Any ideas?) In any case, the Encore/Flex/Latitude distinction applies here, and instead of a bedsheet and blanket, a lightweight sleeping bag is provided instead (a neat idea also borrowed from the SNCF). For sleepers, it's actually easy – because, as I'm following Renfe's trainhotel concept almost to the letter here, Renfe has the solution, with Turista (Euro 2nd class; 4 berths with washbasin), Preferente (Euro 1st class; 1 or 2 berths with washbasin + breakfast), and Gran Clase (Euro premium 1st class; 1 or 2 berths with shower and toilet + breakfast and dinner). Here, Turista becomes Acela RS Lunéa’s Hospitality Service, Preferente becomes Acela RS Lunéa’s Executive Service, and Gran Clase becomes Acela RS Lunéa’s Executive First.

Finally, as part of improving the NEC services, Acela would go for all new equipment. I'd love to reuse the HHP-8 locomotive for Acela RS and Acela CS in TTL, if it can be made reliable from the get-go (which isn't actually hard – Bombardier's people are smart, and surely they could fix the problems before deployment). As stated earlier, Acela CS is the only Acela service which will retain Amfleet equipment, so Acela EX and Acela RS are free to go all new. In that sense, Acela RS would use the same Talgo Pendular carriages currently used in OTL for Amtrak's Cascades service in the Pacific Northwest, mated with an HHP-8 locomotive. Acela EX, on the other hand, would use the ICE 2 trainset which during the 1990s is just getting under construction for Deutsche Bahn; if Acela EX is popular enough, then maybe – if it can fit in Penn Station and/or Grand Central – the Eurotrain could be introduced. The Eurotrain is pretty cool – it's an ICE 2 locomotive mated to TGV Duplex carriages, as a DB/SNCF joint bid for HSR service in Taiwan. Eventually, the ICE 3/Siemens Velaro will be introduced to Acela EX, which will allow for more Acela EX runs.

How does that sound? :D:p
 

FDW

Banned
Unless the original trainsets are so popular in California that somebody forgets to order the 3rd-gen trainsets. :p;) Look at how, for example, France still runs TGV trainsets from the 1980s, and even in Japan the preference still remains for running older trainsets wherever possible.

Actually, Japan tends to retire their HSR sets rather quickly. And the original 1960's train sets aren't going to be running in California at all because the alignment will be completely new on most of it's route.

Point taken.

Yeah, Colma. AKA, ground zero for the Zombie Empire.

That would be cool.

Yeah, I could imagine similar such lines for Washington DC, San Francisco, Chicago and Dallas. (That also have multiple airports within the same metro area)


California's HSR system probably won't be as complex as the type of services you're talking about. There would be only two real permutations of Service: Local and Express, and following on JNR's standards, only have two classes: Standard and Green Car. Trips will be shorter on average (in terms of time spent on train), so accommodations will be more Spartan compared to the NEC. Train capacities will be much higher though because of this.
 
Actually, Japan tends to retire their HSR sets rather quickly. And the original 1960's train sets aren't going to be running in California at all because the alignment will be completely new on most of it's route.

Point taken. Still, it should give some pause.

Yeah, I could imagine similar such lines for Washington DC, San Francisco, Chicago and Dallas. (That also have multiple airports within the same metro area)

Cool.

California's HSR system probably won't be as complex as the type of services you're talking about. There would be only two real permutations of Service: Local and Express, and following on JNR's standards, only have two classes: Standard and Green Car. Trips will be shorter on average (in terms of time spent on train), so accommodations will be more Spartan compared to the NEC. Train capacities will be much higher though because of this.

It might; then again, to me, it's not complex at all. Every HSR service in the US, due to the large size of the country, should run overnight with a "trainhotel", and the trainhotel concept could actually be easy to include in the case of California HSR due to the size of California (and also if somebody is brave enough to include Vegas into the HSR network :p). As to me JR Group's Ordinary Car and Green Car sound like economy class and premium economy class, the slumbercoach model could actually work in this case. I can also say that train capacity on Acela would also be much higher than on regular NEC services, but only due to the nature of the service requiring higher capacity. I was actually toying around with the idea of including a premium economy service, but backed off because Amtrak never has had a premium economy class. It could, though, but then I'd have to figure out how different it would be from Flex and Latitude.
 
Thanks, man.

UR welcome. We should have Acela along the NEC running at 185 mph along the entire route by 1999 ITTL. High-speed trains going to Montreal should stop in Poughkeepsie, Albany, maybe Saratoga Springs, and Burlington VT. The routing should be entirely greenfield. As for high-speed trains heading to Toronto, the routing between there and Albany should mostly be along I-90 and Queen Elizabeth Way. Stations should be constructed in Downtown Syracuse (The line would follow the route of I-690, which would be removed) and probably in the suburbs south of Rochester. Buffalo Central Terminal could be reopened and Utica Union Station could be upgraded and connected to the new high-speed line via a loop (Similar to the Cologne Airport loop on the Cologne-Frankfurt High Speed Line).
 
As for doing Devvy's PATH expansion, I didn't really like that idea all that much, and I don't it's actually physically possible to actually extend PATH north of it's OTL terminal.

Agreed. A connection between Grand Central Terminal and the 33rd Street PATH would be physically difficult, if not impossible, to construct.
 
UR welcome. We should have Acela along the NEC running at 185 mph along the entire route by 1999 ITTL.

Maybe - ICE 2 has a top speed of 174 mph, but if modified it could run higher if need be.

High-speed trains going to Montreal should stop in Poughkeepsie, Albany, maybe Saratoga Springs, and Burlington VT.

See, that's the funny thing. Based on the existing non-HSR Adirondack route, the Montréal-NYC route is basically a straight line. Boston-Montréal would be a different story - there would be where Burlington service would be located.

As for high-speed trains heading to Toronto, the routing between there and Albany should mostly be along I-90 and Queen Elizabeth Way.

In that case, all that is actually needed is upgrading and improving the Empire Corridor, maybe adding separate tracks, which isn't hard - basically apply to the Empire Corridor what's already applied to the NEC. The only tricky bit is co-ordinating it with GO Transit's schedules, which is a pain for everyone but is possible.
 

Devvy

Donor
185mph by 1999 is ambitious, but doable given the right preparation.

There are countless bridges and structures that OTL limit the top speed. These are the real culprits for the slow speed of Acela OTL, and need to be addressed. It's pointless purchasing a 150mph capable train if every few miles it's having to slow to 40-50mph for some bridge (not to mention the increased wear and tear on the brakes, and extra energy requirements for acceleration increasing costs a bit). Between Boston and New York, the route really needs a brand new line building realistically, so those constraints would be addressed immediately.

Any train service generally needs to be:
1) Simple to understand (in terms of ticket purchase, and timetabling. Tickets need to be clear so people can easily understand what they are buying, and timetabling needs to be either regular clockwork, or frequent enough that people can easily remember the departure times in terms of minutes past the hour, every hour. Tickets don't have to be cheap necessarily as long as you can see what your money has bought).
2) Comfortable (although less important if the journey is short. One of the design points of the UK Intercity 235 in the 1970s was the fact that the standard class seating was 2 by 2 and all seats organised as 4 around a table. The seating style was extremely successful as increasing comfort).
3) Fast (ties in to 2, city centre to city centre times should be as good as possible with city centre stations to compete against the car and plane as effectively as possible. You can probably cater for up to about 500-600 mile distance trips effectively if you have a decent average speed).
4) Reliability (facts are not important with this, it's the perception by the public that counts. The service needs to be perceived as being reliable, if not virtually infallible).

Nail those, and you have rail transport extremely well utilised in the US.

On a design note; personally I'd leave the Eurotrain alone, despite it's good natured marketing attempt. Go for GEC-Alsthom (TGV) or go for Siemens (ICE) - one manufacturer, one point of blame. Less problems of integration, etc etc.
 
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Agreed. A connection between Grand Central Terminal and the 33rd Street PATH would be physically difficult, if not impossible, to construct.

Wrong. I once tried to figure out if something is possible, and it actually is. You just need to extend it along the 6th Ave. line and then switch to the IRT Flushing Line at 42nd St./Bryant Park. It's like the people who claim the North/South Rail Link and/or the restoration of Arborway service in Boston is impossible, if not physically difficult. Restoration of Arborway service is possible - maybe not physically at street level, but in its own dedicated corridor like the stretch of the E Branch of the Green Line along Huntington Ave. As for the North/South Rail Link - it's actually very easy. If the "Big Dig" still occurs (as well as the Southwest Corridor realignment), then that would be the perfect time to build one, with stops at Aquarium (connection to Logan Airport and the rest of the Blue Line) and Haymarket (which already serves the Orange and Green Lines anyway). It could also be combined with the "Silver Line" plan and thus finally bring subway service to Washington Street all the way to Dudley Square (which means that connecting it to South Station would either be at Herald St., Chinatown, or the Tufts Medical Center; my preferred option is Herald St, because the MassPike at that end is going to get ripped up anyway to accommodate the tunnel, so building a stretch from Herald St. to South Station allows it to follow the I-93 alignment). OK, so it wouldn't do much for the Seaport District and the South Boston Waterfront in general, so that area (along with stopping at all of Logan's terminals) could remain a dedicated BRT service. Amtrak would not need to stop at Aquarium and Haymarket, but MBTA would - thereby making the *Silver Line equivalent to the PATH in that it's a "subway" legally classified as a regular railroad to the FRA, so that Amtrak trains can operate on the North/South Rail Link. So the route is obvious in all three cases, and it can be done; it just requires some political will.

For the *Silver Line, therefore, the station listing (from south to north) would be:
*Dudley Square (replaces Dudley on the Washington Street Elevated)
*Melnea Cass Blvd.
*Mass Ave. (replaces Northampton on the old Washington Street Elevated)
*Brookline St.
*Waltham St.
*East Berkeley St. (replaces Dover on the old Washington Street Elevated)
*Herald St.
*South Station (Amtrak trains can enter/leave here)
*Rowes Wharf
*Aquarium
*Haymarket
*North Station (Amtrak trains can enter/leave here)

Due to the usage of Amtrak trains, and its legal classification as a mainline railroad, this opens up options for rail vehicles as well, such as the Bombardier Talent (as successfully used for LRT on the O-Train experiment OC Transpo has done in Ottawa).
 
185mph by 1999 is ambitious, but doable given the right preparation.

Definitely.

There are countless bridges and structures that OTL limit the top speed. These are the real culprits for the slow speed of Acela OTL, and need to be addressed. It's pointless purchasing a 150mph capable train if every few miles it's having to slow to 40-50mph for some bridge (not to mention the increased wear and tear on the brakes, and extra energy requirements for acceleration increasing costs a bit). Between Boston and New York, the route really needs a brand new line building realistically, so those constraints would be addressed immediately.

That's why for the Next-Gen HSR proposal Amtrak is considering a rerouting of Acela towards the Franklin Line, eventually linking up at Hartford, rather than the existing NEC coastal route. Considering that in my conception NortheastDirect would be as fast as Acela/Northeast Regional is in OTL, any improvements to the bridges and structures would be a good thing. That, in turns, helps out the HSR Acela Regional. So it could work as part of the plan.

Any train service generally needs to be:
1) Simple to understand (in terms of ticket purchase, and timetabling. Tickets need to be clear so people can easily understand what they are buying, and timetabling needs to be either regular clockwork, or frequent enough that people can easily remember the departure times in terms of minutes past the hour, every hour. Tickets don't have to be cheap necessarily as long as you can see what your money has bought).
2) Comfortable (although less important if the journey is short. One of the design points of the UK Intercity 235 in the 1970s was the fact that the standard class seating was 2 by 2 and all seats organised as 4 around a table. The seating style was extremely successful as increasing comfort).
3) Fast (ties in to 2, city centre to city centre times should be as good as possible with city centre stations to compete against the car and plane as effectively as possible. You can probably cater for up to about 500-600 mile distance trips effectively if you have a decent average speed).

Nail those, and you have rail transport extremely well utilised in the US.

Absolutely. IIRC that was all part of the Acela design, so it could work. It could also be built into the NortheastDirect design as well, even if it is still "conventional".

On a design note; personally I'd leave the Eurotrain alone, despite it's good natured marketing attempt. Go for GEC-Alsthom (TGV) or go for Siemens (ICE) - one manufacturer, one point of blame. Less problems of integration, etc etc.

Makes sense (or, in this case, I would see Bombardier/Siemens - thanks to the arcane rules in the US, Bombardier could act as an effective builder for Siemens).
 

Devvy

Donor
Agreed. A connection between Grand Central Terminal and the 33rd Street PATH would be physically difficult, if not impossible, to construct.

Yep. That link I wrote in TRTR was one of the things I grew unhappy with as I don't think it's plausible either. However by that point it was already "settled" as part of the TL, and so I left it in. Otherwise I'd be constantly rewriting stuff and not getting anywhere. I see this as an opportunity for it to be a version 2 on my side, with a much wider in scope due to the combined efforts of us all and a lot of things corrected/optimised due to much better local knowledge then what I have. :)

Absolutely. IIRC that was all part of the Acela design, so it could work. It could also be built into the NortheastDirect design as well, even if it is still "conventional".

In fairness, Amtrak made a decent design effort against those points (I should of added 4) Reliability...going to edit and add now!), although sadly it wasn't quite up to scratch. Speed wasn't great due to numerous speed limits and not having priority over slower commuter trains on some stretches. And reliability wasn't perceived as being great.

Makes sense (or, in this case, I would see Bombardier/Siemens - thanks to the arcane rules in the US, Bombardier could act as an effective builder for Siemens).

Agreed.. Bombardier would definitely be a prominent train builder in the US. Siemens is the other one I see as having the size to be a large train builder in the US. ABB & Alsthom are a little small to really make a signicant impact without getting lucky.
 
Yep. That link I wrote in TRTR was one of the things I grew unhappy with as I don't think it's plausible either. However by that point it was already "settled" as part of the TL, and so I left it in. Otherwise I'd be constantly rewriting stuff and not getting anywhere. I see this as an opportunity for it to be a version 2 on my side, with a much wider in scope due to the combined efforts of us all and a lot of things corrected/optimised due to much better local knowledge then what I have. :)

Hey, I thought it was cool. Could it have been done better? Perhaps. Had JFK Airport not been used, a PATH extension to Newark Airport could have been done instead (with much the same idea, albeit having it work with all airlines at Newark from the get go), as well as integrating the Clocker with the PATH. But that's me.

In fairness, Amtrak made a decent design effort against those points (I should of added 4) Reliability...going to edit and add now!), although sadly it wasn't quite up to scratch. Speed wasn't great due to numerous speed limits and not having priority over slower commuter trains on some stretches. And reliability wasn't perceived as being great.

Yep. That was in part due to both Amtrak's dire finances and the confusion between Acela Express and Acela Regional in OTL. Grouping HSR services with non-HSR services like that was just, well, who thought that was a nice idea in the first place? With the exception of Acela Commuter, at least I'm trying to separate HSR from non-HSR services. Improving reliability would be a big issue not only on the NEC, but also the Empire and Keystone corridors as well. At least in my conception Amtrak would work harder to make it more than just merely up to scratch.

Agreed.. Bombardier would definitely be a prominent train builder in the US. Siemens is the other one I see as having the size to be a large train builder in the US. ABB & Alsthom are a little small to really make a signicant impact without getting lucky.

Definitely.
 

FDW

Banned
It might; then again, to me, it's not complex at all. Every HSR service in the US, due to the large size of the country, should run overnight with a "trainhotel", and the trainhotel concept could actually be easy to include in the case of California HSR due to the size of California (and also if somebody is brave enough to include Vegas into the HSR network :p). As to me JR Group's Ordinary Car and Green Car sound like economy class and premium economy class, the slumbercoach model could actually work in this case. I can also say that train capacity on Acela would also be much higher than on regular NEC services, but only due to the nature of the service requiring higher capacity. I was actually toying around with the idea of including a premium economy service, but backed off because Amtrak never has had a premium economy class. It could, though, but then I'd have to figure out how different it would be from Flex and Latitude.

I'm going to disagree here. California will be also importing the Japanese practice of closing down the HSR corridor for a few hours at night to do repairs, and again, trips generally aren't going to be long enough for slumercoach service. (At first, it's going to be about 3 hours 15 minutes between SF and LA, the extensions to Sacramento and Tijuana will add about 1 hour and 20 minutes to end to end travel time, and these times will go down with new equipment)

185mph by 1999 is ambitious, but doable given the right preparation.

I'd be fine with that, though California's probably always going to be a step ahead in terms of speed.

Agreed.. Bombardier would definitely be a prominent train builder in the US. Siemens is the other one I see as having the size to be a large train builder in the US. ABB & Alsthom are a little small to really make a signicant impact without getting lucky.

Don't forget Japan Railways! I'm planning for them to be operating the California/Southwest and Texas networks TTL. I imagine that by the present day, America's HSR network will still be heavily balkanized, and not quite a national network yet.
 
I'm going to disagree here. California will be also importing the Japanese practice of closing down the HSR corridor for a few hours at night to do repairs, and again, trips generally aren't going to be long enough for slumercoach service. (At first, it's going to be about 3 hours 15 minutes between SF and LA, the extensions to Sacramento and Tijuana will add about 1 hour and 20 minutes to end to end travel time, and these times will go down with new equipment)

Point taken - but if extended to Vegas, you're going to need continuous service to help some feed their gambling addictions. ;)

I'd be fine with that, though California's probably always going to be a step ahead in terms of speed.

It would actually be funny if it was an East Coast/West Coast rivalry, actually, i.e. "which one is more faster, reaches more destinations, is more comfortable, and more reliable?" - of which in that case whoever is ahead would be relative as speed would be more or less equal. It all has to be tied into replacing the Metroliners, however, and by then some alternatives would have to be on board (even if the Metroliner design itself is still used as the model for the Amfleet equipment). Reading about Talgo, however, and it turns out that the Talgo Pendular was introduced in 1980, well before it became part of the Cascades service. If Amtrak was interested enough (and in OTL, they were - there was a test run between Boston and NYC in 1988), then Talgo could create a specially modified version (along with the Budd Company as Talgo's builders) which could hit a top design speed of 150-160 mph or more - of which, in fact, 150 mph was the original design speed for the Metroliners in OTL, but during the 1960s and 1970s ran at 125 mph and towards the 1980s ran at 90 mph (and all due to the reliability problems). It would be interesting, therefore, if Amtrak, Talgo, and Budd were all on this to create a 2nd-gen Metroliner which finally gets to 150 mph service (maybe with a top design speed of 180 mph, but lower service speed) thanks to improvements made on the NEC.

Don't forget Japan Railways! I'm planning for them to be operating the California/Southwest and Texas networks TTL. I imagine that by the present day, America's HSR network will still be heavily balkanized, and not quite a national network yet.

Texas, I'm not sure about as Texas would probably want to go its own way (being Texas and all that :D). In that case, they could probably model their service on the SNCF and thus TGV service could be run between Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio. (Paris, Texas, anyone? :p)
 
Anyway, I have to get going (I have a gig with Savion Glover at a local theatre I have to help usher at), but I'll be back.
 
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