The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

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Reisen Storm

Reisen Storm

RaS: With the passing of Queen Wilhelmina, a new age opens up for the Netherlands in exile as four contenders for the position of Stadhouder emerge...​

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I like that the Free Dutch is getting some love, just hate that they're nothing more than a OFN Guangdong. What's next? A Einheitspakt Guangdong?
 

xie323

So some players have stumbled upon a quasi-Strasserite subideology called "Revolutionary Nazism" in TNO and there is some speculation that RevNaz may play a role in Moskowien, which is hinted by the dev as a possibility including in it in their "here's some ideas I will throw at the wall, take a guess which one of these ideas are actually gonna manifest in game". Assuming this ideology isn't something that was meant to be chopped up like Gothism but crawled into the game files for no reason regardless of what happens with Moskowien, there are actually a few potential figures I can see taking up this ideology, mostly in TNO 2 but with one exception:
  • In the Iberian civil war, a possible outcome for the Falange could be to potentially embrace Ledesma's legacy over Jose Antonio's legacy, declaring the latter to be "weak"(Note/Warning: This link leads to a straight-up Neo-fascist website, but it gives some good context for this discourse even if twisted to ultra-fascist ends) for his unwillingness to fully embrace totalitarianism and ultranationalism. Through Natsynd is a admittly a better ideology for this
  • For Germany itself, it could be a potential sucessor for Bormann based on his policies, or even a potential path for Oberlander's cabinet. For Bormann, since we know that after the Civil War gets removed, the other factions won't be dealt with a massive purge as soon as the power struggle is done, I can see Bormann props up the SA to form a counterbalance to the SS, and Heydrich would play a role in the June of decit while the SA would in theory take Bormann's side. However, the newly empowered SA has different ideas and if Bormann fails to contain the SS OR the SA, he's done, cue Brown Revolution superevent. A possible leader could be some Hitler youth fanatic(alternatively Viktor Lutze is the starting leader, but he dies 1-2 years into TNO 2 and is succeeded by a fanatic)
  • For Moskowien, if what the dev claims on this front is true, the RevNazs will come out of Kaminski's faction since apparently he had some crypto-third positionist ideas, this is one path I can see in TNO1
  • Sweden is another possible vector for a RevNaz path owing to Sven Olov Lindholm's Strasserite ideas. Depending on how he comes to power and whether he chooses to go full gamer or not he could go further off the deep end or actually try to renounce Nazism owning to his real world disillusionment in fascism, essentially the fascist George Wallace
  • Francisco Freda in Italy, but rather as a gamer path for Red Italy, he's a TNO2 sucessor for Muti that feels Sancripsimo dosen't go far enough and aspects of Nazism can be merged with Sancripsimo. Essentially he'd be the worst successor for Muti.
  • Potentially, a RevNaz warlord state from the collapse of Burgundy under Jean-Francois Thiriart, a Nazbol that OTL started out with the SS but made a pivot to tankie ideas in the 1960s, trying to link up with Romania and China, and was essentially a Nazbol towards the end of his life
  • For the NPP, while I don't see anyone supplanting Yockey, I could see some NPCs or avaliable Senators for NPP-ANV have RevNaz worldviews, one of them being James Madole. While he is more of an esoteric Fascist, with the role esonaz/Burgsys has as the ultimate villain ideology is being toned down significantly in favor of more broadly having Natsoc as the big bad ideology, which would also see the end of the lore about Yockey being surrounded by Himmlerite agents. Madole has been described to have claimed Stalin was going down a Fascist route and approving of some of his actions. Since Burgundy can now die before TNO2 and would likely be the "disk one final boss" for most German paths in TNO1 after the rework, I can see Madole going from Burgsys larper to Nazbol larper if Serov unifies Russia or if Thiriart survives Burgundian collapse BUT Speer is puppetted by G4 declare Germany, with him declaring that Germany has "fallen from grace with the final corruption by Zionism" but the formerally "Jewish-infested Slavs" have "redeemed" themselves and picked up the Mantle of Aryan dominance.
 
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Kingfish Chris

Kingfish Chris

xie323 said:
BUT Speer is puppetted by G4 declare Germany, with him declaring that Germany has "fallen from grace with the final corruption by Zionism" but the formerally "Jewish-infested Slavs" have "redeemed" themselves and picked up the Mantle of Aryan dominance.
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I did have a random idea of Strasserism seeing a resurgence in Speer's Regime, with Strasserism finding an appeal among the Academic Circles and Student Movements in Germany. What you have are Young National Socialists who have become disillusioned with "Old Nazism" and opting for a different "New Nazism". Thus, these students discover Strasserism, leading to a "Reemerging Political School of Thought" that influences various Young German Nationalists. And these Young Nationalists emerging under Speer are influenced by Strasserist views. They support Speer because he wants something different from the "Old Geezers" of the NSDAP, but these Revolutionary Youth oppose Speer, since while Speer is doing something different, Speer is still a "Capitalist" in their eyes.
 
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Gukpard

Gukpard

Kingfish Chris said:
I did have a random idea of Strasserism seeing a resurgence in Speer's Regime, with Strasserism finding an appeal among the Academic Circles and Student Movements in Germany. What you have are Young National Socialists who have become disillusioned with "Old Nazism" and opting for a different "New Nazism". Thus, these students discover Strasserism, leading to a "Reemerging Political School of Thought" that influences various Young German Nationalists. And these Young Nationalists emerging under Speer are influenced by Strasserist views. They support Speer because he wants something different from the "Old Geezers" of the NSDAP, but these Revolutionary Youth oppose Speer, since while Speer is doing something different, Speer is still a "Capitalist" in their eyes.
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Something that happened in China after they went dengist is that wealth disparity exploded, so this caused some mao nostalgia.

The wealth gap in Germany might lead them to go for "left wing" forms of naziism, yeah.
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

Kingfish Chris said:
I did have a random idea of Strasserism seeing a resurgence in Speer's Regime, with Strasserism finding an appeal among the Academic Circles and Student Movements in Germany. Basically, they are Young National Socialists who have become disillusioned with "Old Nazism" and want something different, thus these students ended up getting their hands on Strasserist material, and it leads to a growing rabbit hole from there. And these Young Radicals and Skinhead Movements emerging under Speer are influenced by Revolutionary Nazi views. They support Speer because he wants something different from the "Old Geezers" of the NSDAP, but these Revolutionary Youth oppose Speer, since while Speer is doing something different, Speer is still a "Capitalist" in their eyes.
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Similarly, I could see ideas of a Nazi Cultural Revolution being prevalent amongst said students with these people thinking Nazism needs to be “cleansed” of “corrupting influences”.
 
Gukpard

Gukpard

Whiteshore said:
Similarly, I could see ideas of a Nazi Cultural Revolution being prevalent amongst said students with these people thinking Nazism needs to be “cleansed” of “corrupting influences”.
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Kingfish Chris said:
I did have a random idea of Strasserism seeing a resurgence in Speer's Regime, with Strasserism finding an appeal among the Academic Circles and Student Movements in Germany. What you have are Young National Socialists who have become disillusioned with "Old Nazism" and opting for a different "New Nazism". Thus, these students discover Strasserism, leading to a "Reemerging Political School of Thought" that influences various Young German Nationalists. And these Young Nationalists emerging under Speer are influenced by Strasserist views. They support Speer because he wants something different from the "Old Geezers" of the NSDAP, but these Revolutionary Youth oppose Speer, since while Speer is doing something different, Speer is still a "Capitalist" in their eyes.
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I'm more interested in TNO strasserism since no mod has made that yet and TNO is the best one to present ideologies. The main problem is that I think that TNO revolutionary Nazis ain't exactly strasserists (since ya know, they got purged and Otto is outside Germany), but instead something like "We need to return to the pre election NSDAP values when we didn't corrupt ourselves by aligning with enterpreuners and the conservatives in the army and industry".
 
Yankeewolf

Yankeewolf

xie323 said:
So some players have stumbled upon a quasi-Strasserite subideology called "Revolutionary Nazism" in TNO and there is some speculation that RevNaz may play a role in Moskowien, which is hinted by the dev as a possibility including in it in their "here's some ideas I will throw at the wall, take a guess which one of these ideas are actually gonna manifest in game". Assuming this ideology isn't something that was meant to be chopped up like Gothism but crawled into the game files for no reason regardless of what happens with Moskowien, there are actually a few potential figures I can see taking up this ideology, mostly in TNO 2 but with one exception:
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If you look at Artur Axmann's description here, he seems far more likely to have "Revolutionary National Socialism" as his subideology than anything relating to Strasser. Especially since Strasser was pushed out relatively early on.

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xie323

Yankeewolf said:
If you look at Artur Axmann's description here, he seems far more likely to have "Revolutionary National Socialism" as his subideology than anything relating to Strasser. Especially since Strasser was pushed out relatively early on.

kln5yhy4msha1.png
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Well Axmann is the head of the Hitler youth, and we've theorized about possible RevNaz sentiments being in the Hitler youth.
 
Reisen Storm

Reisen Storm

Whiteshore said:
And a proposal on how Germany took over Portuguese Africa (and how the differing colonial approaches the Estado Novo (with its concept of "Lusotropicalism" and all that) and Nazi Germany was a major factor in said take over).
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As long as the new lore states that Portugal is still arming the insurgents, it's all fine.
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

Gukpard

Gukpard

Whiteshore said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/1281li9
Something really interesting (and proposed that there could be the potential for boycotts).
https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/125rnio
And a proposal on how Germany took over Portuguese Africa (and how the differing colonial approaches the Estado Novo (with its concept of "Lusotropicalism" and all that) and Nazi Germany was a major factor in said take over).
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Just one funny thing. Lusotropicalism is a Brazilian theory, Portugal adopted it later.

Basically Brazilians noticed the idiosyncrasies of the Portuguese colonisation, showed them to Portugal and Portugal went "Oh son, you are right" and moved for it.
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

Gukpard said:
Just one funny thing. Lusotropicalism is a Brazilian theory, Portugal adopted it later.

Basically Brazilians noticed the idiosyncrasies of the Portuguese colonisation, showed them to Portugal and Portugal went "Oh son, you are right" and moved for it.
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And yeah, your thoughts on how the proposal suggested that the differing colonial approaches/ideologies of Nazi Germany and the Estado Novo played a major factor as to why the Nazis took over the Portuguese colonies and added them to the African RKs?
 
Gukpard

Gukpard

Whiteshore said:
And yeah, your thoughts on how the proposal suggested that the differing colonial approaches/ideologies of Nazi Germany and the Estado Novo played a major factor as to why the Nazis took over the Portuguese colonies and added them to the African RKs?
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Reads in Brazilian

Well, for a start Germany did have plans to take over Mozambique in WWI, basically Portugal had the stupid idea to join the entente so the germans decided that if they won they would end taking it.

The second part is very interesting, like, people see lusotropicalism as a cheap way to support colonialism, but lusotropicalism isn't pro colonial in itself and it's racial views came as a refutation of the eugenics that thrived before WWII. Portugal was at the bottom of the generic white supremacist eugenics views of the time and Brazil had the "second worst" gene pool in the americas in the views of eugenics since the massive racial miscigenation, but instead of collapsing those societies thrived and the theory was used to hit eugenics head to head by claiming that you could have a non white nation and still be prosperous.

The text is fine and it makes sense, the writer knows a lot about portuguese imperialism in africa and his reasoning for the nazi invasion fits, yeah. I know the former portuguese dev so I gonna send this to him. Thanks Whiteshore.
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

Gukpard said:
The text is fine and it makes sense, the writer knows a lot about portuguese imperialism in africa and his reasoning for the nazi invasion fits, yeah. I know the former portuguese dev so I gonna send this to him. Thanks Whiteshore.
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No problem! And on that note, it also explains, with Atlantropa cut, why Iberia exists in the first place.
 
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