The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

Well in this scenario Germany also remains a strong power to challenge Japanese hegemony as well
I did say a new Boreman Germany that effectively fixes nothing.
Mainly because i consider it the best option to crash Germanys potential while allowing them to for sure beat Russia.
 
I did say a new Boreman Germany that effectively fixes nothing.
Mainly because i consider it the best option to crash Germanys potential while allowing them to for sure beat Russia.

Btw I asked Black Tiger, a German dev, about the chances of Germany not being nazi anymore either due collapse or due turning into a democracy. He said that it will be either 1 to 10 or 2 to 10 chances of it.
 
I've been wondering, what does a best case scenario for Japan look like? I mean in terms of winning the cold war and becoming the primary superpower of the world. Obviously it would need to win all the proxy wars, get Italy into the sphere, etc but what does this world actually look like? Who is in charge of Russia, India, etc?
The best case scenario for Japan is victory in all proxy wars, win in the GAW, Shepunov reunites Russia as his government is much more stable than Rodzaevsky's while still sucking off the Japanese, America goes Yockey and Germany loses the 2WRW after Bormann dies of cancer.

Long term no, especially considering all pro Japan options are so because of pragmatism and nothing else if i remember right.
A broken Russia will allow Japan(Manchuria) to exploit Siberian resources and populations far easier regardless of outcome if they lose and that is the extent of Japanese/Chinese interest in a Moscovienless Russia.

Russia is still completely fucked even if they win a full victory in the 2WRW. It will take decades upon decades of rebuilding to get Moscowien and the rest of Eastern Europe up to standards after decades of nazi occupation. They have absolutely no hope of standing up to the CPS or OFN for a very long time. Meanwhile not only does Japan get access to resources in eastern Europe but they also could further cement their control over Russia during the 2WRW by enforcing Zaibatsu domination over vital war time industry and essentially force Russia into being their puppet after they win.

Especially if the unfier is someone like Shepunov which in his super regional tree can literally surrender the entirety of Russia to Japan and allow the Zaibatsu's to operate completely free of Russia control within their borders.

If the war goes badly, then Japan could intervene directly and set up a "friendly" Siberian government so they can continue exploting siberian resources as the Russian unfier in the west crumbles to Nazi forces.
 
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The best case scenario for Japan is victory in all proxy wars, win in the GAW, Shepunov reunites Russia as his government is much more stable than Rodzaevsky's while still sucking off the Japanese, America goes Yockey and Germany loses the 2WRW after Bormann dies of cancer.
Right but what does this world look like in the aftermath, or 10 years or more on?
 
Right but what does this world look like in the aftermath, or 10 years or more on?

Here's what I imagine the world will look 10 years from now in a total Japanese victory.

Japan winning all of the proxy wars means that they're influence stretches worldwide. From Africa with states like Zaire, to the Americans from the victory in Colombia by New Granada and the election of Japanophile Raúl Salinas Lozano in Mexico, to Europe with the entry of Italy and their allies as well as the victory of the Russians into the CPS and of course Asia is under CPS domination after the taming of the Chinese.

Shepunov's Russia has succeded in a total victory against the Germans in the 2WRW but it has come at a heavy cost. Shepunov already a massive Japanophile who allowed Zaibatsu corporations to dominate the country unimpeded surrendered more and more of Russia's vital industry and resources to the Zaibatsu's in order to supply the war effort. With Shepunov’s passing due to old age, his sucessor Leonid Mustafin finds himself with no ability to challange Zaibatsu domination of Russian affairs and its economy.

Yockey is eventually impeached because I genuinely don't see Yocky holding onto the presidency for long and is probably arrested for attempting to tamper with American democratic values. However, due to this. America is in a low scale insurgency with various far right militas loyal to Yockey operating throughout the country. No where near collapse of the state but a constant throne in America's home affairs. This also drastically weakens the OFN as other members like Canada, Australia and New Zealand all worry about America attempting to go down a path like Yocky again and try to pursue more independent means of defending themselves rather than rely on America's nuclear umbrella. Especially Australia who invests more money into its own nuclear program.

Germany losing the 2WRW has a drastic impact on the country. With its economy shattered from losing the war, food insecurity due to the loss of of the breadbasket in Ukraine and a pissed off populace. Germany finds itself in inner turmoil with the Pakt being reduced to Germany and its puppets like Slovakia. Nations like Romanian and Hungray might join the CPS considering how weak Germany is but that's up in the air.

Finally, victory in the GAW sees China completely demilitarised and only the most Japanophile of people are employed in the government.
 
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AeroTheZealousOne

Monthly Donor
Is TNO just going to become TWR? Not that I don't mind a more realistic scenario, personally, but it seems to go against the ethos they've tried to create.
TNO is an Axis victory scenario, whereas TWR is more specicially a Nazi victory scenario, one where Japan actually loses WWII harder than OTL. The latter has always been considered more down to earth than the former in terms of how the world got to the way it was, but it cannot be denied the gargantuan influence the former has had not just on HoI4 modding but on other communities, for better and/or sometimes for worse. TWR, while a dark scenario, is definitely a more hopeful one across the board - millions are still dead from the Holocaust and the Great Patriotic War, but the Reich can and probably will, but is not guaranteed to, collapse in the '50s with Western intervention more likely than not. Sure, Europe's free and can eventually move on from all that horror but the scars are very much noticeable as the decades progress. Europe in TNO will never have that option, at least not during the twentieth century and even if the Gang of Four asserts dominance by T-posing over Speer. And that's the big reason as to why, I think, TNO cannot become more like TWR.

I know I'm part of a quieter minority when I say that TNO's shift towards a more plausible yet still unlikely scenario isn't a bad thing. Granted, rewrites preclude work on other parts of the lore but at the very least I feel everything is more coherent. A lot of the original facets of the lore/world of TNO (The Ordenstaat and Atlantropa especially) were more for differentiating the setting and for storytelling purposes, but I feel that, woth all due respect and credit to the original dev team, that particular implementation would have worked better as a book or a series of books than as, say, a video game mod. It took me a while to get over Glenn! being cut, but I think they did one hell of a job with Hart, and I look forward to seeing how the rest of the facelifts go, even if that takes until 2026.

TNO is still very much TNO, even if unmistakably different from the way it was on launch in July of 2020. Nixon still starts out as the U.S. President. The Yasuda Crisis/Economic Wars, the South African War, the Indonesian Civil War, and the Oil Crisis are all intact, even if somewhat different than their original implementations. Russia is still very much Balkanized and much of the original content (facelifts aside and the Divine Mandate's skeletonization pending rework) still stands and defines TNO to this day - Sablin's idealist implemention of Leninism, Nikolai Krylov declaring himself King Rurik II, and especially the Holy Russian Empire.

All this said, I've been following this mod and the HoI4 modding community at-large a lot less than I did years ago, so my personal opinion may not carry as much weight, and I'm willing to acknowledge that. The development hell that much of the Toolbox Theory era comprised, despite everything, I want to say is worth all the effort that went into it. Kaiserreich's own team learned from the missteps of TNO's, and it shows, especially in the quality of the updates for the Left Kuomintang and Germany. Despite everything that this mod has run into since it began development in the late 2010s, it's been nothing short of groundbreaking, if not just for turning a game focused on the largest war humanity has fought thus far into a hybrid visual novel and Cold War simulator set during the 1960s with an aesthetic more befitting of the '80s or early '90s.

Even without all the changes in realism, this mod is still far less ASB than the premise of The Man in the High Castle, particularly the TV adaptation.
 
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Is TNO just going to become TWR? Not that I don't mind a more realistic scenario,
TWR? Realistic? The same mod that includes a path for Germany where Himmler proclaims the Ayran empire? Nazbol Brezhnev? A fascist American army coup path? Granted that one is being removed. Strasser making a come back in people's Germany?

Calling TWR a realistic mod is laughable and comparing it to TNO does nothing but harm the perception of both mods.
 
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