The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

In other words they would be fine with Speer,reformist Bormann or even Oberlander.
The youth wants change for the better and most of them wouldn't care how you get there as long as you do.
I don't think the youth is a monolithic block, and while I could see many of them turning to a more effective Nazism, I think this idea that everyone in totalitarian regimes more or less marches in lockstep is just incorrect.
 
I don't think the youth is a monolithic block, and while I could see many of them turning to a more effective Nazism
It isn't a monolith i agree.
It's just that the core of the moment is all that matters if they are pacified with enough reforms the more defined fringes will wither or radicalize and that point they are just 1 more terrorist group.
It's the population version of the whole G4 will still have to crush Russia problem that most people want to ignore in favor of wholesomeness.
 
I don't think the youth is a monolithic block, and while I could see many of them turning to a more effective Nazism, I think this idea that everyone in totalitarian regimes more or less marches in lockstep is just incorrect.

That was my point. In my view, there wouldn't be a single youth movement. Rather it would be quite fractured. Wouldn't be surprised if youth militias that nominally support the same candidate (e.g. Speer) end up fighting each other, like Red Guards clashed in China during the Cultural Revolution.
 
That was my point. In my view, there wouldn't be a single youth movement. Rather it would be quite fractured. Wouldn't be surprised if youth militias that nominally support the same candidate (e.g. Speer) end up fighting each other, like Red Guards clashed in China during the Cultural Revolution.
Speaking of the Red Guard, I imagine that radical Nazi student movements similar to a Nazi version of the the OTL Red Guard would be a powerbase for Goering or even Heydrich.
 
Speaking of the Red Guard, I imagine that radical Nazi student movements similar to a Nazi version of the the OTL Red Guard would be a powerbase for Goering or even Heydrich.
Yeah, I’ve always been of the opinion that this should be shown more, as it represent a critical lesson about what fascism, (and radical totalitarianism in general but pecifically facism and Nazism) tends to do, poisoning societies and the youth,to the point it destroys your own culture.
 
The Soviet Union was wracked by dissidence throughout its entire history. Why would the Third Reich be any different?

I'm not sure to whom you're specifically responding to. If it's my posts...well, I clearly say that there would be dissidents. In fact, I name two historical examples of dissident movements that existed among the German youth during the war. I just dispute the idea that every student would be one and that there wouldn't be pro-Nazi student groups.
 
I'm not sure to whom you're specifically responding to. If it's my posts...well, I clearly say that there would be dissidents. In fact, I name two historical examples. I just dispute the idea that every student would be one.
I was just speaking in general, and I think the student dissidence is meant to be analagous to the '89 Democracy Movement, which is an example of large-scale student protests occurring in a well-established and repressive totalitarian state.
 
Yeah, I’ve always been of the opinion that this should be shown more, as it represent a critical lesson about what fascism, (and radical totalitarianism in general but pecifically facism and Nazism) tends to do, poisoning societies and the youth,to the point it destroys your own culture.
And on that comparison, the radical Nazi students could be divided into pro-Goering elements and pro-Heydrich elements akin to how the Red Guard was divided between "conservative" and "radical" factions.
 
The Soviet Union was wracked by dissidence throughout its entire history. Why would the Third Reich be any different?
it also produced Fanatics and devoted young fowllowers, the party activists who ripped apart Ukraine in “requisitions” during the Holdomor, and more immediately for our purposes: China also has a history of dissent yet it also produced mobs of young radicals who took a hammer to anything they thought of as wrong think at the behest of state propaganda. I have no doubt it could happen in Germany as well. Hell, to some extent it did happen OTL, with enthusiastic Hitler youth storming offices of professors who were considered anti Nazi, all on their own initiative. Now add on a full generation of that type of propaganda and Hitler Youth militarization, and I can very well see lots of similar incidents.
 
it also produced Fanatics and devoted young fowllowers, the party activists who ripped apart Ukraine in “requisitions” during the Holdomor, and more immediately for our purposes: China also has a history of dissent yet it also produced mobs of young radicals who took a hammer to anything they thought of as wrong think at the behest of state propaganda. I have no doubt it could happen in Germany as well. Hell, to some extent it did happen OTL, with enthusiastic Hitler youth storming offices of professors who were considered anti Nazi, all on their own initiative. Now add on a full generation of that type of propaganda and Hitler Youth militarization, and I can very well see lots of similar incidents.
That feels like whataboutism. My point is that it's far from impossible that there would be significant dissent, not that it's impossible that German youth might double down.
 
And on that comparison, the radical Nazi students could be divided into pro-Goering elements and pro-Heydrich elements akin to how the Red Guard was divided between "conservative" and "radical" factions.
Speer is a most prominent element as well. After all, the student-youth are his original powerbase.

Considering that according to Panzer and devs, Speer's Germany would be hit harder by the Oil Crisis than it otherwise would, because of the GO4's reforms. In a Fascist! Speer scenario, I can definitely envision Speer riling up the youth like attack dogs and manipulating their discontent and rage towards the GO4 by way of blaming them for Germany's problems with the Oil Crisis and the Eastern Slave Revolt so as to build up mass support for his eventual purge. Just like how Mao had done the same against his opposition within the CCP and Chinese society during the Cultural Revolution in order preserve his reputation and power in the face of the catastrophic debacle of the Great Leap Forward.
 
What‘s your guy’s canon unifier?
For me it’s Novosibirs (Shuskin)
Bukharina's United West Russian Front defeats the Black League, then attacks Pokryshkin's Novosibirsk while it's engaged in a grinding war against Sablin's Far Eastern Soviet Republic.
 
Just had an insanely silly submod idea.
If an American mercenary or a gang of Nazi LARPers can stumble into reunifying Russia, and the Poles can win (theoretically) in Kazakhstan...
What if De Gaulle tries to save Russia instead of France ? :p
 
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Just had an insanely silly submod idea.
If an American mercenary or a gang of Nazi LARPers can stumble into reunifying Russia, and the Poles can win (theoretically) in Kazakhstan...
What if De Gaulle tries to save Russia instead of France ? :p
"Screw this, if I can't have France back then I'll just make my own France in Russia, with blackjack and hookers!
In fact, forget France!"

- Charles de Gaulle, 1962
 
Speaking of the Red Guard, I imagine that radical Nazi student movements similar to a Nazi version of the the OTL Red Guard would be a powerbase for Goering or even Heydrich.
For Goering, I can mostly see an appeal from young military personnel. For Heydrich, it would mostly be SS-affiliated Youth.
 
Just had an insanely silly submod idea.
If an American mercenary or a gang of Nazi LARPers can stumble into reunifying Russia, and the Poles can win (theoretically) in Kazakhstan...
What if De Gaulle tries to save Russia instead of France ? :p
Charles De Gaulle unifies Russia

Shock and confusion is the best way to describe international reaction to the radio announcements coming from the former state of Russia. Against all odds, Charles de Gaulle and his band of Free French fighters have overcome the challenges of warlord Russia and proclaimed the Republic of Eastern France. De Gaulle ordered the raising of the Eastern French tricolor on the borders of RK Moscowien, accompanied by loud playing of the Marseillaise. It is expected that De Gaulle will use Russia as a staging ground for a campaign to reclaim the French homeland, presently controlled by the descendants of the Vichy regime.

Napoleon would be proud.

The French Reunification of Russia


From the sublime to the ridiculous is but a step. - Napoleon Bonaparte

Vive l'Est de la France!
 
Time to make this as a legit superevent
Charles De Gaulle unifies Russia

Shock and confusion is the best way to describe international reaction to the radio announcements coming from the former state of Russia. Against all odds, Charles de Gaulle and his band of Free French fighters have overcome the challenges of warlord Russia and proclaimed the Republic of Eastern France. De Gaulle ordered the raising of the Eastern French tricolor on the borders of RK Moscowien, accompanied by loud playing of the Marseillaise. It is expected that De Gaulle will use Russia as a staging ground for a campaign to reclaim the French homeland, presently controlled by the descendants of the Vichy regime.

Napoleon would be proud.

The French Reunification of Russia


From the sublime to the ridiculous is but a step. - Napoleon Bonaparte

Vive l'Est de la France!
 

chankljp

Donor
Yeah, my point is that even AuthSoc Sablin seems written to be still kind of an idealized view of communism.

I feel like it pulls punches.
Just some thoughts on this:

I don't remember if it was posted on the old TNO thread, or over on the sub-Reddit, but I do recall someone commenting that one of the concepts that TNO had deconstructed was that 'Only crazy people are evil'. On a similar vein, I honestly don't mind the idea of TNO Sablin always being a wholesome and morally upstanding person at his core, since thematically, he can be used to deconstruct/examine yet another common trope: That only bad people end up becoming tyrants. Or that the only problem with dictatorships is that you cannot get the right person in power.

So, with Sablin, if I am in charge of a rework and rewrite, the theme of the story arc would be him being a genuinely idealistic, incorruptible, and all around wholesome guy that is also an aspiring communist dictator that idolizes Lenin, having 'drank the kool aid' ideologically, so to speak. With his character development being an examination on the question on if such a thing as a wholesome Leninist dictator exist (Answer: NO). With Sablin having to make a choice on if he is going to stop being wholesome, or stop being a Leninist.
 
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