The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

While this might be in poor taste, I just have to say it: TNO seems to be undergoing a process of 'de-panzerization' in terms of its lore.

Not saying that it is a bad thing (I am certainly not against the idea of removing Atlantropa, as it is one of those 'first impression' things that really prevent me from introducing TNO to other people and have them take the setting serious). But as someone who have created his own TLs on this site and have a high degree of protectiveness over my own vision of the lore and setting, even if I realized some of the mistakes that I have made later on, I do understand why Panzer, whenever he occasionally shows up on the TNO subreddit with his iconically sarcastic single line comments, seems to be so bitter and irritable over all the changes to the TNO setting since he had left. In a 'seeing your own work outgrown its creator' kind of way. Especially when he has been used almost as a strawman for everyone to pin all the aspects of TNO they did not enjoy onto him ever since he left.
I really feel sorry for him, actually. He already had to make the hard decision to step back from the thing he created, and now it's moving away from his original vision.
Still, similar to all the talks about the South African War being reworked to make it less of a Vietnam War analogy (Yes, yes, I know that it was also an analogy of Korea and Iraq as well... But you cannot have a proxy conflict with anti-war protests, draft dodging, and Operation Rolling Thunder, and tell me that Vietnam was not the primary influence)
This was definitely one of the biggest pet peeves I had with TNO - the whole antiwar narrative of Vietnam does not work when the enemy are Nazis.
and make the situation in Russia less of an anarchy in which no one on the outside world knows what is going on, and more of a chaotic warlord period instead, I am 100% in support of the dev and their decision on this.
This is more of an area of inconsistency, I think. For one thing, the game never hides what is happening in Russia from the player. And it becomes clear that a few factions (Magadan and Amur in particular) have close contacts with outside powers. I'd put it as "most people don't have the patience to keep track of the latest goings-on in Russia" not "nobody knows".

What should definitely change is once the regional phase hits. At that point, Russia is no longer a collection of warlord states, but rather is divided into four proto-nations. This does run into the question of gameplay vs. narrative. From a gameplay standpoint, it makes more sense for the outside world to not get involved and let a Russia player control the outcome. But from a narrative perspective, it seems very likely that outside powers would get involved.
 

brooklyn99

Banned
Wait FDR was a President in tno now?
I'm wondering how that makes sense in TNO context since the reason for Joseph Kennedy sr taking FDR's place was to get some way to have the USA be in the worst possible shape to fight in WW2 because of lacklustre recovery from the Great Depression and isolationism preventing lend-lease and degrading American military's preparedness for war.
 

AeroTheZealousOne

Monthly Donor
Not sure how to feel about the reworked lore but at least it looks plausible. Looks like Dewey is set to take the fall for losing WWII, but if it's the Republicans's fault then why is it still the R-D's? A little confused to tell you the truth.

Looks also like Scoop Jackson ran against Nixon in 1960 instead of Thurmond, so it looks like he's no longer going to be a candidate in '72. Might be mistaken though.

Now if Glenn!'s presidency is cut in the future I'm going to be sad.
 
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Not sure how to feel about the reworked lore but at least it looks plausible. Looks like Dewey is set to take the fall for losing WWII, but if it's the Republicans's fault then why is it still the R-D's? A little confused to tell you the truth.

Looks also like Scoop Jackson ran against Nixon in 1960 instead of Thurmond, so it looks like he's no longer going to be a candidate in '72. Might be mistaken though.
I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around FDR being president and only getting two-terms. But yeah, I feel for Dewey.

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AeroTheZealousOne

Monthly Donor
I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around FDR being president and only getting two-terms.

It's what I plan to have in when I rewrite my unfinished abomination of a timeline where the Nazis never become a thing, ironically enough. It actually makes more sense there. with no war looming.

Here though it's slightly more plausible, FDR and the New Deal being lambasted as a communist plot wasn't enough to kill it IOTL, I don't see why it wouldn't also be the case ITTL, other than giving the Reich and the Empire an easier time at it.

On the other hand it makes more sense rework-wise, given that the Treaty Ports won't be a thing once the full OFN rework drops probably in 2025 or something, being replaced with fleet basing rights on the West Coast or something like that if the devs are still going that route, from what I've heard.
 
I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around FDR being president and only getting two-terms. But yeah, I feel for Dewey.
It's actually not that implausible, FDR had a guy lined up as his replacement in 1940 (Harry Hopkins) but he turned out to have Cancer, here the Cancer is found out later, after Hopkins has gotten the nomination, this combined with people's faith largely being in FDR and not his policies, allows Dewey to narrowly win
 
Assuming the US rework comes for Hall and Yockey to be put on the chopping block, who would you want them to be replaced with?

Note that this is assuming that the radical bad ends are kept, there is a chance the tankie and nazi failstates could be axed altogether.

For Hall I’d have him replaced with Lovestone(the main Bukharin guy in the 30s) or some black communist(reflective of radical civil rights struggle on the left)

For Yockey, I’d say JB stoner or Matthias Kohel fits well as an alternative.
 
For Hall I’d have him replaced with Lovestone(the main Bukharin guy in the 30s) or some black communist(reflective of radical civil rights struggle on the left)
I don't think Lovestone can be an option for president given he wasn't born in the United States. However I do think he should be a prominent figure on the American Far Left and the ramifications of Bukharian winning out instead Stalin on the factionalism in the American communist movement should actually be taken into account.

Hmm, for a particularly bad communist option, how about Jim Jones?
 
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