The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

Shaf would met her and go "Wow, you are even more traditionalist than me even though you are a woman! What a wonderful mix!"
She is not actually much of a traditionalist.
Authoritarian yes, Traditionalist no.

They may not actually get along long-term wise. They would both want to purge the other for multiple reasons.

Lydia has a robust national health service and is (obviously) an advocate of women's rights. She, whiles still bigoted also tolerates minorities and homosexuals in the army. Still an authoritarian jerk but not nearly as insidious as Shaf.
 
Lydia has a robust national health service and is (obviously) an advocate of women's rights. She, whiles still bigoted also tolerates minorities and homosexuals in the army.
It is very strange. Open homosexuals in Russia in the 60s and in the army? They would have been killed simply for homosexuality. For example, in those days, calling someone a homosexual is a mortal insult. Yard hooligans could kill you for it.
 
It is very strange. Open homosexuals in Russia in the 60s and in the army? They would have been killed simply for homosexuality. For example, in those days, calling someone a homosexual is a mortal insult. Yard hooligans could kill you for it.
Yeah. I could sorta understand Meme!Sablin, Men and the Siberian Black Army sorta accepting homosexuality (because there is barely any manpower in the far east) not sure about her.
 
Yeah. I could sorta understand Meme!Sablin, Men and the Siberian Black Army sorta accepting homosexuality (because there is barely any manpower in the far east) not sure about her.
Speaking of that one, I'd like to see some events relating to gay rights in general and the Free Territory becoming a bastion of gay rights in particular. The Stonewall riots occurred within TNO's timeline, and I can't think of anything in particular that would change that (aside from random butterflies). At minimum, I feel that there ought to be a flavor event for the US for Stonewall. For the Free Territory, I have this idea where they decide to host an international conference on gay rights. It would help to boost their international prestige and combat the perception that they are just the warlord of the month.

In the long term, the Free Territory would have a significant impact on gay rights. At minimum, many gays would probably become sympathetic to anarchism. That might end up causing a backlash if the Free Territory is seen in the West as an ideological threat and gays as anarchist sympathizers. If, on the other hand, they are able to wield significant political influence on the global stage, then they could pressure some countries to shift their stances. There would almost certainly be a stream of homosexuals seeking asylum in the Free Territory. And it's a guarantee that the 2WRW will trigger a crackdown on homosexuality in the Pakt.
 
Wasn't it implied that the Soviet Union never ended up recriminalizing male homosexuality, leading to a somewhat more open attitude towards it or at least no one giving enough shits to prosecute it in most of the soviet warlord states?
 
What are the rights of gays in Russia in the 20th century? This is crazy.

In Russian-Soviet Siberian culture, which is largely based on the traditions of the criminal world, a homosexual is not a person at all. He has no rights, he is literally used as a prostitute, you can kick him, take his money, kill him if he protests, he must clean the toilets, take out the garbage. Literally the lowest caste. It is very homofobic region.

Siberian anarchists are not the modern liberal personas of the USA college of 2022, their socialism and anarchism will have an exclusively economic context.
Nothing like the modern social context with the rights of LGBT, women, refugees.
Siberian anarchism will grow because of the unwillingness to pay taxes to the central government, the church and go to fight in wars in distant countries.

In terms of culture, Siberian anarchists will remain traditionalists. Moreover, the territories occupied by the Siberian Free Army are mainly peasant Siberian villages. This is a harsh land with harsh religious people (but at the same time they are against the church as an institution).
If you don't believe me, look at Makhno's army. They were not social progressives, but they were active anti-semites and bandits.
 
Speaking of that one, I'd like to see some events relating to gay rights in general and the Free Territory becoming a bastion of gay rights in particular. The Stonewall riots occurred within TNO's timeline, and I can't think of anything in particular that would change that (aside from random butterflies). At minimum, I feel that there ought to be a flavor event for the US for Stonewall. For the Free Territory, I have this idea where they decide to host an international conference on gay rights. It would help to boost their international prestige and combat the perception that they are just the warlord of the month.
There's a whole event chain in the US for Stonewall.
 
What are the rights of gays in Russia in the 20th century? This is crazy.

In Russian-Soviet Siberian culture, which is largely based on the traditions of the criminal world, a homosexual is not a person at all. He has no rights, he is literally used as a prostitute, you can kick him, take his money, kill him if he protests, he must clean the toilets, take out the garbage. Literally the lowest caste. It is very homofobic region.

Siberian anarchists are not the modern liberal personas of the USA college of 2022, their socialism and anarchism will have an exclusively economic context.
Nothing like the modern social context with the rights of LGBT, women, refugees.
Siberian anarchism will grow because of the unwillingness to pay taxes to the central government, the church and go to fight in wars in distant countries.

In terms of culture, Siberian anarchists will remain traditionalists. Moreover, the territories occupied by the Siberian Free Army are mainly peasant Siberian villages. This is a harsh land with harsh religious people (but at the same time they are against the church as an institution).
If you don't believe me, look at Makhno's army. They were not social progressives, but they were active anti-semites and bandits.
I feel like Bukharina should be the resident "really good for gay rights" socialist in Russia. Well, technically she already is but for some reason most of the fandom ignores her.
 
Wasn't the LGBT situation in America also pretty messed up around this time? The AIDS crisis in the 80s killing god knows how many people being totally ignored because nobody cared if gay people lived or died is pretty damning.
 
Wasn't the LGBT situation in America also pretty messed up around this time? The AIDS crisis in the 80s killing god knows how many people being totally ignored because nobody cared if gay people lived or died is pretty damning.
At least Free France wouldn't discriminate legally
homosexuality's been decriminalised in France during the Revolution and was only affected by age of consent laws
which, well, was a situation Vichy abused by raising age of consent for homosexual relationships, but didn't change.
And I think that would be the kind of thing De Gaulle would not bother changing
 
Keep in mind the USSR in this timeline kept Lenin's Decriminalization though that's far from tolerance. Lydia doesn't care about gay rights, she just doesn't want to lose two good soldiers. Most nations in Russia at max go Decriminalization, IE: a return to the Soviet Norm in this. It's only a very few that go beyond that, and Burkharina pretty clearly doesn't care about the people's personal opinion on that matter as she's trying to achieve social reform and the LGBT stuff is a very minor part of that.
 
Keep in mind the USSR in this timeline kept Lenin's Decriminalization though that's far from tolerance. Lydia doesn't care about gay rights, she just doesn't want to lose two good soldiers. Most nations in Russia at max go Decriminalization, IE: a return to the Soviet Norm in this.
I see.
 
Bunyanchenko and Kemerovo is much more attractive as nationalist Russian regimes.
Bunyachenko and Kemerovo aren't nationalist they don't give single shit about whether someone is Russian or is not Russian as long as they're loyal. Serov, though, I agree, his Russia is scaringly powerful.
 
Asian capitalism is an incredibly cursed thing. I mean, even in our timeline, the capitalist system of Japan and South Korea is hell, work is your life.

In TNO we have the hellish wild capitalism of Guangdong, a country without a nation. Just a colony not even of the japanese government, but of japanese corporations. I would jump out of the first Guangdong window if all of a sudden space bats transferred my consciousness into the body of a Guangdong resident.
 
Also dropped in the Chinese language thanks to a partnership with the CN-TNO community:
(I'm sure the only one here who would be able to truly appreciate it in any capacity would be @chankljp, but the folks on this thread might as well know anyway.)

This kind of gives me some vague Shinra vibes... if Shinra was four separate companies and set in a corporate fiefdom southern China and it was set in the 1960s rather than a fantasy modern era reminiscent of the late '90s in certain areas. (I guess it helps that a Famicom bootleg of Final Fantasy VII was made by Chinese programmers back in the 2000s, then re-localized into English by some other folks on the Internet with better graphics in the early 2010s... but as I tend to often do I digress.)

Let's go over what can and likely will go down in Guangdong over the 1960s: Economic confusion and perpetual poverty and hardship especially for the disadvantaged locals, the potential for a large-scale surveillance scheme, new consumer goods galore, omnipresent corruption in all areas of society, racketeering street gangs, relocation into new drab housing in the name of resource exploitation, largely unchecked police brutality...

And then, naturally, comes the comparisons and parallels with dystopian, cyberpunk, and dystopian cyberpunk stories like Blade Runner and Snatcher but with a larger focus on the aesthetics and the settings and without all the moral questions as to what measure a non-human is, and with more political and economic freedom for corporations than meets the eye. What also shouldn't be discounted is the drawings of said parallels with the general direction as to how things in general are developing IOTL... but of course, this isn't the thread to talk about such things, thus I will simply leave it at that.

Anyway, Guangdong is very much an interesting place in TNO, to say the least. The Diary pretty much only goes to 1963, just after the Yasuda Crisis and around the time the Economic Wars begin in the Co-Prosperity Sphere. As interesting it may be, it's most certainly not fun if you're not rich and if you don't have connections. Obern above put it best:

Asian capitalism is an incredibly cursed thing. I mean, even in our timeline, the capitalist system of Japan and South Korea is hell, work is your life.

In TNO we have the hellish wild capitalism of Guangdong, a country without a nation. Just a colony not even of the japanese government, but of japanese corporations. I would jump out of the first Guangdong window if all of a sudden space bats transferred my consciousness into the body of a Guangdong resident.

I will say that not only is it implied that Suzuki quotes Bernie Sanders (no context!), but there's also some clever foreshadowing in one of the events shared from the Dev Diary, made even better if you know what's going on from playing Japan at least once:

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All in all something good to tide us over while we wait for the NSB compatibility update.
 
Bunyachenko and Kemerovo aren't nationalist they don't give single shit about whether someone is Russian or is not Russian as long as they're loyal. Serov, though, I agree, his Russia is scaringly powerful.
They're Nationalist, I mean they care a lot about Russia.
I mean there's a different between being a Nationalist who love their own country and culture (Like Matkovsky and Bunyachenko) versus being an Ethnonationalist/Racial Nationalist who love their country and are obsessed with ethnic/racial purity (Like Rodzaevsky and Serov).
 
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