The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

The French state government should ask Japan to occupy the isles, or at least allow them to use a port to retake it.
If they side with Italy and then it joins the sphere that isn't a bad idea.
Honestly a settlement supervised by the US would also work if they end in the OFN.
Germany under Speer or G4 i think would consider both ideas after Burgundy dies and France becomes a member of the Pakt.
Bormann i think would just take the island for Germany in the name of RK France.
 
Last edited:

chankljp

Donor
Also, poor De Gaulle :(
Say what you will about De Gaulle and the Free France Remnant, but one has to give them credit for their sheer determination in clinging on no matter what. A sane or rational person would have call it quits at this point, and simply head to the nearest friendly country seeking political asylum/refugee status. Instead, even after everything that they have endued, they insist that they will live and die on the sovereign territory of the French Third Republic... Even if it means they will be living out their lives on one of the most remote places on Earth, subsisting on hunting feral rabbits and sheep, as well as whatever meager vegetables they are able to grow. Being forgotten by the rest of the world.

Like, DAMN! Even the KMT enclave we had here in Hong Kong before 1997 had a better chance in retaking all of China on their own compared to Free France at this point.

Free France absolutely deserve to get their own special post-nuclear exchange event, either in the form of the now elderly and senile Free France Remnants still coming up with all sorts of plans in returning home, not knowing that France no longer exist; Or perhaps some far future navigators rediscovering the islands, and finding the relics left behind by the Free France Remnant in a cave somewhere, which looked really similar to ancient artifacts that were discovered back in Europe. With them wondering how they ended up all the way out here.
 
Say what you will about De Gaulle and the Free France Remnant, but one has to give them credit for their sheer determination in clinging on no matter what. A sane or rational person would have call it quits at this point, and simply head to the nearest friendly country seeking political asylum/refugee status. Instead, even after everything that they have endued, they insist that they will live and die on the sovereign territory of the French Third Republic... Even if it means they will be living out their lives on one of the most remote places on Earth, subsisting on hunting feral rabbits and sheep, as well as whatever meager vegetables they are able to grow. Being forgotten by the rest of the world.

Like, DAMN! Even the KMT enclave we had here in Hong Kong before 1997 had a better chance in retaking all of China on their own compared to Free France at this point.

Free France absolutely deserve to get their own special post-nuclear exchange event, either in the form of the now elderly and senile Free France Remnants still coming up with all sorts of plans in returning home, not knowing that France no longer exist; Or perhaps some far future navigators rediscovering the islands, and finding the relics left behind by the Free France Remnant in a cave somewhere, which looked really similar to ancient artifacts that were discovered back in Europe. With them wondering how they ended up all the way out here.
Or heck, the Free French actually returning home after the nuclear exchange and crying
Because, even if it is a devastated, irradiated mess, it's still home
 
Or heck, the Free French actually returning home after the nuclear exchange and crying
Because, even if it is a devastated, irradiated mess, it's still home
Even better, the Free French returning to their devastated, irradiated home and deciding to rebuild as much as possible.
 

chankljp

Donor
I could see some niche situation where they could return to France,but yes this is pretty much the end for De Gaulle.
Free France under de Gaulle ended up getting reduced to just the Kerguelen Islands reminds me of Turtledove's Worldwar seriers (The one in which aliens invaded Earth during WW2), with the Free France remnant finding themselves reduced to just French Polynesia centered around Tahiti, and only being kept around by the superpowers as a sort of 'neutral zone' where they can meet and interact with each other. Still, at least French Polynesia have an actual population and natural resources, while the Kerguelen Islands are literally worthless. Ss someone on Reddit have pointed out, even after getting an 'influx' of Free France exiles, according to the mod, the islands only have a population of 130 people. Meaning that de Gaulle and his 4 ministers alone would make up 3% of the entire population, giving them one of the highest per-capita cabinet membership in history.

I would love to see a wacky TL in which Free France somehow survives in the Kerguelen Islands all the way into the 21st century. With vloggers and documentary makers posting videos to their YouTube equivalent of them visiting 'Ice France', the same way that people post videos of themselves visiting Nauru... Or Sealand.
 
Better idea for TNO 2 probably.
De Gaulle wins the elections in the OFN aligned failed French state on the fact that he wasn't involved with there garbage and his ridiculous nationalist credentials.
An old man coming back from the edge of the abyss with hope and hatred in his heart and ready to take his revenge.(Yes he would be a tad unhinged at this point)
 
Better idea for TNO 2 probably.
De Gaulle wins the elections in the OFN aligned failed French state on the fact that he wasn't involved with there garbage and his ridiculous nationalist credentials.
An old man coming back from the edge of the abyss with hope and hatred in his heart and ready to take his revenge.(Yes he would be a tad unhinged at this point)
He died in 1970 and the latest mini-patch has Leclerc succeed him after he dies.
 

chankljp

Donor
He died in 1970 and the latest mini-patch has Leclerc succeed him after he dies.
That's really sad,at least the island can be 1 more point grab for whoever gets the French state in there sphear.
The only country in the entire mod in which the infamous '-1 manpower' effect from an event is more than just for the story-telling purposes and emotional impact, but actually represent a significant reduction in total population. :openedeyewink:
 
Honestly, my headcanon about a scenario where De Gaulle lost the West African War is that Free France consists largely of emigres in Quebec, Martinique, and Guadaloupe who still issue passports and other documents in the name of the French Republic and claim that the French Republic still exists as long as said emigres issue documents kinda like the Polish or Baltic governments-in-exile IOTL during the Cold War.
 

chankljp

Donor
Honestly, my headcanon about a scenario where De Gaulle lost the West African War is that Free France consists largely of emigres in Quebec, Martinique, and Guadaloupe who still issue passports and other documents in the name of the French Republic and claim that the French Republic still exists as long as said emigres issue documents kinda like the Polish or Baltic governments-in-exile IOTL during the Cold War.
It can be a case of the vast majority of Free France government-in-exile supporters and emigre settled in other countries, many of them operating their own 'consulates' and 'diplomatic missions' in cities around the world with a noticeable French population. With only the most fanatical members such as De Gaulle and his cabinet holding on to Kerguelen Islands as the last piece of sovereign territory belonging to the Third Republic, which in the minds of the Free France supporters, give them legitimacy.

With part of the earnings that the 'diplomatic missions' earn from issuing postage stamps, memorabilia, and passports getting spent on supporting the holdout in the Kerguelen Islands in the form of regular supply shipments to keep the island's population fed. Hence explaining why 130 people are able to stay on an island that hardly produces any food on their own.
 
It will probably just be folded back into liberal democracy, which actually leads me to wonder why big sub-ideologies like social liberalism got axed but something like "radical liberalism" got left in when the former should in theory have much more adherents then the latter.
Idk, at least French Radicalism is an actual substream of liberalism. Social liberalism meanwhile - in the real world at least, not sure about HOI4 mods - is just a catch-all term for "center-left but doesn't fit any common ideological label".
 


So, If any of you aren't already in the know on this. I present you the Phillipines most (in)famous Head of State; funnyman Ferdinand (click to enlarge).

How Ferdinand Marcos arises to power TNOTL is interesting. Basically, when the Communists under Turac takeover the Philippines (the relationship with the USFIP need to have been shattered beforehand whilst successfully resisting the Japanese) they then attempt to wipe out the non-Communist elements to secure their dominance only for Marcos to pull off something like what Che Guevara and the Italian Socialists can do in Paraguay and Italy respectively, and seize power for himself.
 
Idk, at least French Radicalism is an actual substream of liberalism. Social liberalism meanwhile - in the real world at least, not sure about HOI4 mods - is just a catch-all term for "center-left but doesn't fit any common ideological label".
Yeah, but Liberal Radicalism is a very specific version of liberalism that only appears in TNO in Argentina, whereas Social Liberalism is a major branch of Liberalism that can be used to represent many parties and figures all across the world.
Ideally, default liberal democracy should be used to represent centrist liberalism, social-liberal for left-liberalism, and market liberalism for right-liberalism.
 


So, If any of you aren't already in the know on this. I present you the Phillipines most (in)famous Head of State; funnyman Ferdinand (click to enlarge).

How Ferdinand Marcos arises to power TNOTL is interesting. Basically, when the Communists under Turac takeover the Philippines (the relationship with the USFIP need to have been shattered beforehand whilst successfully resisting the Japanese) they then attempt to wipe out the non-Communist elements to secure their dominance only for Marcos to pull off something like what Che Guevara and the Italian Socialists can do in Paraguay and Italy respectively, and seize power for himself.
Oh God, oh fuck,

IT'S MARCOS!
 
Since Marcos is a Kleptocrat, I am assuming should Oktan (Also a Kleptocrat) reunify Russia, he and Oktan can get along. I would imagine Oktan treating the Philipines as a tropical vacation destination, having a nice drink on the beach all while counting his money, all the while Oktan is making deals with Marcos with Oktan building another vacation home in the Philipines.
 
Last edited:
Given that his opponents seem to be closer to the Pol Pot side of leftism Marcos might actually be the lesser of two evils here.
I doubt that with Luis Taruc; they're the more orthodox and reasonable PKP as opposed to the Maoist "rural strategy" types of the reaffirmist CPP. Taruc is also not necessarily hostile against the clergy and is far more conciliatory to them compared to the Cuban regime of OTL.

Also, IOTL, the PKP actually degenerated and made peace with the Marcoses after he initiated his Martial Law, precipitating the need to establish the CCP in the first place.

If anything, old guards such as him are more motivated in nationalistic (or at least self-preserving if you're cynical) realpolitik than ideology. As to why they did the purge? Well, the landlords are really out for their heads and would have made the already existential power struggle apparent either way.
 
Last edited:
@HIM Dogson and @Baron Steakpuncher I just watched the 1973 Disney Robin Wood movie, and men, I can see some things changin in TNO timeline.

The feud between Richard and John would be a parallel to Edward VIII and Elizabeth the II. Instead of John being a usurper, maybe they can say that the Vikings installed him. The vultures could be German stereotypes and there could be a political message about resistance there.

What do you think?
 
TNO is a cool mod, but as a resident of Russia and Ukraine, I see some of its parts as funny and contrary to Russian reality.
My notes on Western Russia:

1) WRRF. It makes no sense for the Western Russian revolutionary front to be where it is. In general, I am amused by the warlords of the revolutionary front, the Divine Mandate, Vorkuta. Guys, these regions are on the same latitude as Alaska. And the climate is the same there. There is nothing there, no industry, no agriculture, no infrastructure. These regions live off food supplies from the south.

In 10 years of anarchy, the fighters of the revolutionary front will either die of hunger or desert to the south. Historically, the inhabitants of northern Russia (referred to in Russian as "Pomorie") have never supported the communists, because there was no serfdom and there was developed self-government due to the difficulty for the Petersburg authorities to control these cold, sparsely populated lands.

It makes sense to move the start of the WRRF to another location. For example, I would move it south to Orenburg and the Ural League replacing them. And Arkhangelsk would have made a free city (analogue of Orenburg).

Further. Zhukov. Lol.
Zhukov in the game is terribly far from the real person. Zhukov has never been a humanist and a supporter of any kind of liberalization. He was a cruel barracks fighter. He was famous for beating his subordinates with his fists. His other nicknames are "butcher general", "Stalin's butcher".
He is responsible for the tactics of pelting the Germans with soldiers' meat until the Germans run out of ammunition.
Further, after the war, Zhukov became comically famous for looting valuables from Germany. Stalin discovered that Zhukov had sent several trains to the USSR from Germany with expensive furniture, paintings, gold jewelry, aristocratic dishes, dozens of fur coats for his wife, and so on.
It was literally Soviet Goering. Lol.

His regime, based on its characteristics, is Soviet despotism with its moderate personality cult. The economy and social life will be stagnant. Only the army will develop. Zhukov himself will live the luxurious life of the general secretary. With resorts, aristocratic polish, personal servants, delicacies, perhaps trips to the United States and friendly states for entertainment.
See it as Brezhnev.

Tukhachevsky.
This guy is seriously underrated. He was a pagan and his views are closest to the term National Communism or Ordosocialism.

Here are his quotes:

"- No, just the opposite, I want to say that we, Russians, are all religious, but precisely because we have no religion. I am not a Christian," he stopped in front of a Catholic, "moreover, I even hate that Vladimir The Saint who baptized Russia, thereby giving it to the power of Western civilization! We had to preserve our crude paganism, our barbarism. Both of that and another. But wait, both will come back, I do believe in this! Saint Vladimir made us lose a few centuries, but that's all. "

Or here's a curious quote:

“Jews?” Tukhachevsky said mockingly, “Jews brought Christianity to the world. That's enough for me to hate them. And then the Jews are an inferior race. I'm talking about the dangers they can bring. You are a Frenchman for whom equality is - dogma, you cannot understand it. ”It is the Jews who sow their dangerous fleas everywhere, trying to instill in us the infection of civilization, giving everyone their morality of money - the morality of capital.
- Oh, I understand! Are you against capital ?? Fervak laughed, interrupting. "Are you a Russian socialist?"
“What a need for classification you have,” Tukhachevsky laughed, “but, first of all, all the great socialists are Jews, and the socialist doctrine, in fact, is a branch of world Christianity. I am not very interested in how the land will be divided between the peasants and how the workers in the factories will work. The kingdom of justice is not for me. My ancestors, barbarians, lived in a community, but they had leaders who led them. If you like, this is a philosophical concept. I hate Jews, socialists and Christians all together. There is also a big difference between me and the Jews. Most Jews love the power of money, but I despise money. "

If Tukhachevsky has the time and power to realize his fantasies, this is literally the red Velimir. Moreover, an interesting approach would be to make Velimir's root as one of the WRRF paths, i.e. Velimir could be Tukhachevsky's successor.
Tukhachevsky's views are a mixture of militarism, Marxism, nationalism, Russian paganism.


The curse of war communism in the western community is also greatly underestimated. War communism is when guys come to you with machine guns and say that you have to give up your property. If you disagree, they beat you up or take your wife, children, and parents hostage. Then you agree.
 
Top