The New Order: Last Days of Europe - An Axis Victory Cold War Mod for HoIIV

[TheWildWestPyro]

Would really enjoy @chankljp @Whiteshore and @TheWildWestPyro thoughts on this, specificlaly the theme of things poisoning the well so hard that perhaps Gang of Four redeeming the honor of the Germany people might cause more harm than good and it might be better if Germany was truly humbled by a final defeat.

The Gang of Four are generally honorable, but their fight is still going to be a very tough one, and I don't think it's out of the question to say that Nazi insurgents will now be their problem to deal with. Plus they only do their soft coup late in the 1960s, and so they'll have to continue fighting a very uphill battle. Like, Willy Brandt still has to flee to the US even after he wins, as he won't be safe in Germany still. That should tell you things. Plus Gehlen still plots in the shadows.

 

[chankljp]

Re: Goering

We dont really know what the mechanics for Goering will be finalized as given the coming rework.

I really hope that mechanics will be introduced such that even from the perspective of the rest of the world, a total German economic under Goering would still be a bad thing compared to say, Go4 Germany or even a successful Bormann. Otherwise, the idea of having the Nazis regime effectively commit economic Seppuku with their insane militarism is just too much of a well deserved fate to pass up.

 

[Deleted member 107125]

Played Ireland a while back.
I managed to go full Good Friday Agreement, and for a country with only five years it was a good run - I especially liked the events - from the lamentations of an aged Eamon de Valera to the woeful life of a young Jewish refugee to the anti-fascist prayer of a young Catholic boy,
And the amazing investigation events of course. The icons were beautiful, and the mechanics were rich and compelling. If you want a quick game of TNO, I’d easily recommend Ireland.

 

[HIM Dogson]

In my mind, granting the idea that Russia and Germany can't both win, I would prefer good Russian unifier vs Bormann's Germany over good Russian unifier vs GO4 Germany, if only because the GO4 losing would discredit anti-Naziism in Germany forever. I also think that Germans in TNO still deserve a functioning state and to not suffer, but, to put it bluntly, Russians deserve to not suffer more. I don't especially care about metaphysical stuff like Germany 'properly atoning' but it's looking like the GO4's success must come at the price of a victory over Russia, and that's not a price I want to pay.

 

[chankljp]

In my mind, granting the idea that Russia and Germany can't both win, I would prefer good Russian unifier vs Bormann's Germany over good Russian unifier vs GO4 Germany, if only because the GO4 losing would discredit anti-Naziism in Germany forever. I also think that Germans in TNO still deserve a functioning state and to not suffer, but, to put it bluntly, Russians deserve to not suffer more. I don't especially care about metaphysical stuff like Germany 'properly atoning' but it's looking like the GO4's success must come at the price of a victory over Russia, and that's not a price I want to pay.

I absolutely agree. I just simply cannot in good conscience accept an outcome in which Russia, under all but the most cursed unifiers, gets denied a good chunk of their nation's cultural heartland at best, or collapse back into warlords at worst. The idea that Nazis will find themselves being vindicated by history with their genocidal colonialism making things even worst.

 

[TheWildWestPyro]

Basically what I'm thinking is that it's not out of the question that the GO4 would lose control at the government at some point, and that starts yet another German civil war, or at least a deadly Nazi insurgency. If Willy had to flee, the reformists will have to flee too for their own safety. Russia can then move in and take back what was stolen from them, with the OFN providing material assistance and a few volunteer units.

 

[Dunois]

Interesting post regarding why the Eurasian wars of the 1970s will be unavoidable.:

Spoiler

<blockquote class="reddit-card" data-card-created="1611886651"><a href="

https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/l6m4ot

">Your Wholesome Liberals will not save you; Why peace between Germany/Japan and Russia/China is impossible</a> from <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod">r/TNOmod</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//embed.redditmedia.com/widgets/platform.js" charset="UTF-8"></script>

And my thoughts below, which not make as much sense if you aren't familiar with Warcraft lore for reasons I will get to, but I will try to make it easy to understand.

Spoiler

Personally I think what makes reformist Germany and Japan vs. good Russia a rather engaging and even tragic idea over rather than good china and Russia vs. evil former axis, is that essentially how it deconstructs the concept of a redemption arc for a civilization or culture. Which is why I prefer to have a Sablin vs. G4 rather than Russia vs. a bad Germany led by Speer, Bormann or Goering. It not just makes a story with a clear good guy and a obvious bad guy(normal germany) more greyer(due to reforms), raises the question: "Have the evils of the past poisoned the well so far that even if a character, or a entire nation, is to gain redemption for their sins, that it dosen't really matter because everyone else will only remember what caused them so much suffering? Would such a redemption actually end up being bad for the world because of the victims that would be silenced?"

As someone familiar with Warcraft lore, this topic comes up quite a bit. Now Blizzard's writing is not really good even on a good day, but there is some food for thought

You have the efforts of the Orcs to redeem themselves after freeing themselves from the Legion often being shunned by the Alliance, and Jaina's dad seeking to destroy the Orcs because of their wiping out of entire human civilizations. However, it can also apply to those who didn't see the light due to how their lack of redemption is treated by the rest of the universe and even some WoW players due to how easy it is for WoW to build attatchment between player+faction. Specifically, the fate of Arthas Menethil, the most popular villain of the franchise.

Now whether Arthas is genuinely in control or not of his actions is a key factor in discussing whether he deserves redemption or not. Fans have been split on this issue in Warcraft. There are those, particuarly fans of a villain that's arguably worse but was victimized by him as part of her backstory, who view him with utter contempt just because their Dark Lady do so too as evident in one of the Cataclysm cinematics where she recounts her past and Arthas victimized her. They see Arthas as a spoiled brat who would have been a tyrant even without Lich King influence, who made every single choice by his own accord, with Frostmourne being less of something that controlled and corrupted his mind and more of something that just gave suggestions to a already depraved mind that was already present fully on display at Stratholme and when he burned the Ships in Northrend. They even go as far as to view Arthas as the "rapist" of their favorite character.

On the other camp, there are those that believe Arthas to be a well meaning man who wanted to do well, but whose personality issues may have led to his fall, but his worst actions after he got Frostmourne was not his own.: a flawed mind totally corrupted by evil. They view Stratholme as a necessary evil, while they view his actions against his own men in Northrend as something that while wrong, was caused by desperation.

A novel was written about Arthas life before becoming the Lich King, both sides only came out emboldened in their views on if he could have even been a good person or not.

Now if you want my view, despite being someone who legitimately thought Stratholme was justified, and thought Arthas to be genuinely well meaning, while keeping in mind his personality flaws and what he did(yet also finding the idea of consequentialism and total free will to make any decision very reductive itself). I will say both views are kinda reductive to be rather honest, but I see their appeal.

Now Arthas is not redeemed in Wrath of the Lich King. However, I will argue that the game did not settle the debate in favor of the "fuck Arthas" camp. The person who deemed him to be irredeemable was someone who found traces of his humanity and destroyed it because he believed there is nothing left to redeemed--yet considering that character's backstory, and how he lost his entire family because of the Scourge, he really isn't one that can be convinced to see Arthas in a good light. Also consider that the half of Uther's spirit absorbed into Frostmourne says whatever sparks of Arthas humanity is left is keeping his dark half from destroying Azeroth, which hints that there was genuine good in him. When he dies he does express a sort of regret in asking the spirit of his father if "it's over" as if he had awakened from a nightmare. Yet that does not guarantee him a good Afterlife of being a blue smiley Force Ghost--for the Other Half of Uther's soul that ascended to the Afterlife picks him up and drops him into the setting's equivalent of hell. This being despite the fact that the closest figure the setting has to a literal race-supremacist Nazi, along with the fact that some warord that was namedropped in the latest expansion whom committed genocide on an entire planet were both sent to some purgatory after death where they could hypothetically be redeemed(or alternatively another sort of hell, but one closer to the Buddhist image of Hell as somewhere where people can move on from once they've atoned for their sins).

It could be argued that perhaps Arthas could be redeemed, but his atrocities and destruction of civilizations poisoned the well so hard that 99.999999999% of Azeroth wanted him dead and decided that it wasn't worth it redeeming him because of the serverity of his crimes(that 0.000000001% dissenting opinion is quite literally one person: his long lost love, Jaina Proudmoore), and even when he died and regained his humanity, his actions will haunt him with someone he killed in the past preventing him from going to some purgatory or "temporary hell" where he could be cleansed of his sins and allowed to redeemed. This admittedly, is my view on the whole redemption thing and Arthas. It's a story where Darth Vader is not judged by Luke and the Force, but by the Rebel Alliance.

What do the Horde and Arthas have to do with TNO? Well in a sense, a "reformed" Germany wants to show to the world it changed. But what does it mean for those it once victimized. Can something like the KdN actually take off? Now, perhaps Germany can wash it's hands if Velimir or Rodzaevsky, or Shafarevich was the final opponent during the 2WRW, but it's more likely than not a less morally objectionable person and someone whom we'd find to be sane. In that case, is Germany's desire to change just cold comfort to the descendants of it's victims, and is it better that this whole project was consigned to the dustbin of history? The inevitability of the European theater of the great Eurasian War and by extension the Chinese theater brings this theme into light, especially in a war between two well meaning forces, but one victimized by the past evils of another.

Would really enjoy @chankljp @Whiteshore and @TheWildWestPyro thoughts on this, specificlaly the theme of things poisoning the well so hard that perhaps Gang of Four redeeming the honor of the Germany people might cause more harm than good and it might be better if Germany was truly humbled by a final defeat.

Deep reflections like these is why I am fascinated by the world that the TNO mod created.

As someone who became increasingly interested in strategy, grand strategy and essentially "what are the ingredients that make a country into a great power?" in the last decade. I think that it is completely naïve to think that a Go4 Germany that has reformed would hand over Moskowien to Russia without a fight and for the promise of an economic and military alliance with Russia instead.
In TNO's Universe, the outcome of WW2 was a grand strategic victory for Germany of near unprecedented proportions in human history. The only historical precedent I can think of is the "end of history" moments of the 1990s were American superpower status and liberal hegemony were briefly unquestioned.
Here is a non-exhaustive list of what Germany managed to achieve in TNO's WW2 strategically:
- Pushing beyond its 1914 boundaries by adding Austria, Czechia, Bialystok and most of Wielkopolska. This in itself would be a major win on its own!
- Destroying France as a strategic rival and corrupting any hope of recovery by setting up a cancerous artificial state into what used to be the birthplace of the French nation itself. This is another huge win and the accomplishment of key goal of German foreign policy since 1870!
- Dismantling the United Kingdom and turned it from a world-spanning empire into a small impoverished island on the edge of Europe. Unlike France, the former UK has a better chance of recovering some semblance of great power status. But one cannot underestimate the fact that for the first time in post feudal history, the UK has been invaded and occupied by an enemy power. This in itself is bound to have massive consequences of the psyche of the nation, some good and some bad. I am for a start quite surprised that the UK isn't far more revanchist in TNO that it could be given these circumstances. This is another big win as Nazi Germany accomplished the Wilhelmine dream of supremacy over its British foe!
- De facto annexing Denmark and the Netherlands. This means that Germany now has direct controls of the Baltic belt straights and direct control of the key harbours and trade route that govern the flow of goods and and from continental Europe. Unlike Eastern Europe, holding into both territories long-term is actually very well possible with the right policies. In Nazi racial discourse both the Dutch and Scandinavians were seen as "brother races" whose destiny was to be eventually assimilated into constituent parts of the Volk. Neither Dutch or Danes will be persecuted unlike Slavs and Balts so in TNO they can plausibly become eventually parts of a Greater German nation in the same way as Austrians, Bavarians or Bohemians are.
- Establishing direct control over Eastern Europe. This in itself was a key goal in WW1 and Nazi Germany surpassed Brest-Litovsk here. Sure while the cost of controlling the territories may be more than the benefits it derives from it. A number of factor make this colonization of Eastern Europe different from the colonization of Asia and Africa. To begin, there is direct road and rail access to the colonized territories so transport costs will be lower and there isn't a need for a vast navy to control trade routes etc.

Any German politician who would want to give up these hard won strategic gains would likely be seen as a traitor and depicted as such. So I think that we can forget about the Go4 handing Moskowien peacefully at all ...

What about general German culture and the feelings of average Germans in TNO's Universe?

Well I would for a start expect the average German to have more than a chip of their shoulders. They will consider their position as "masters of Europe" to be the natural order of thing and feel the same pride towards it that some Britons still feel towards their former Empire. Even in a Go4 Germany, antisemitism will be rife and documents like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion will be widely considered as "proof" that there was and perhaps still is a malevolent Jewish plot against the country. Nobody will really care about the fate of the Jews and nobody would really bother asking difficult questions. The clean Wehrmacht myth will be completely unquestioned, especially as it will be easy to point out fingers towards "those SS madmen in Burgundy".
Considering the slave system, I would expect most Slavs and Balts to be seen as nothing more than "peasant people" whose place in the natural order of things is to be servants, laborers, maids or even worse for their German masters. Slavery is an institution that breaks the minds of slaves and corrupt the minds of enslavers. OTL United States is still grappling with the legacy of it. TNO's Germany will be corrupted by it even if the Go4 takes power.
The added fact that Slavs and Balts were genocided for a time will corrupt things even more and add another layer of toxicity to the mix. One that will be conveniently forgotten if the Go4 takes power.

Oh and another thing to forget is that we can't expect the German settlers in the Eastern territories to leave or surrender their pre-eminent positions that easily. This will also imply some form of de facto or de jure apartheid as well. Even in a Go4 victory scenario, German settlers will dominate the economic life of the Baltics, Ukraine and Moskowien. Nobody will really care about changing this and inequalities between the populations will be firmly entrenched. Historical discourses around the Drang Nacht Osten and past episodes of German settlers contributing to modernising Russia and the East will be dominant and taught in every school in the German sphere.

TLDR: It's irrealistic to expect even a Go4 Germany to give up any territories without a fight as it has won a major victory to gain them in the first place.

 

[brooklyn99]

What do the Horde and Arthas have to do with TNO? Well in a sense, a "reformed" Germany wants to show to the world it changed. But what does it mean for those it once victimized. Can something like the KdN actually take off? Now, perhaps Germany can wash it's hands if Velimir or Rodzaevsky, or Shafarevich was the final opponent during the 2WRW, but it's more likely than not a less morally objectionable person and someone whom we'd find to be sane. In that case, is Germany's desire to change just cold comfort to the descendants of it's victims, and is it better that this whole project was consigned to the dustbin of history? The inevitability of the European theater of the great Eurasian War and by extension the Chinese theater brings this theme into light, especially in a war between two well meaning forces, but one victimized by the past evils of another.

Considering how citizens in nations such as the US and the OFN would perceive the 2WRW between GO4 Germany and a unified Russia. Outside of the really obviously really bad cases like Velimir, Tukhachevsky, Kaganovich and Rodzaevsky (especially given his CPS leanings), I'd imagine there would be to varying degrees a sense of sympathy for even the more morally dubious unifiers such as Yagoda and Shafarevich, (and in the cases of Matkovsky and Yazov, even a great deal of outright support and solidarity, given how they work to bolster ties with the OFN, until the latter goes mask off) as they would be understood as technically in the right in correcting a historical injustice with retaking the western territories, and in the eyes of much of the public a GO4 Germany would still be a rival that they have bad blood with, which probably wouldn't wither away soon enough, between the GO4 seizing control and the WRW2 kicking off.

 

[Workable Goblin]

Any German politician who would want to give up these hard won strategic gains would likely be seen as a traitor and depicted as such. So I think that we can forget about the Go4 handing Moskowien peacefully at all ...

I can see it happening in the case where German hegemony in the east completely collapsed during the civil war and could not be resumed afterwards for some reason or another. But in that case it would be less a case of "handing over Moskowien peacefully" and more a matter of abandoning territory that they don't actually hold or control and may not have any realistic method of holding or controlling.

Actually, this would be more likely for imploded Göring or Heydrich Germany, since they have little or no effective ability to contest the Russians in the east anyway and thus can't realistically resist whoever unified Russia marching in and kicking out the settlers.

Outside of the really obviously really bad cases like...Tukhachevsky, Kaganovich

I don't think these would be perceived as "really obviously bad" by the United States compared to Germany (even under the Gang of Four). Tuk is basically Red Napoleon/Red Yazov, and people would probably view him sympathetically. Kaganovich is just Stalin, IIRC, and, well, it's not like the U.S. didn't butter up Stalin in World War II OTL. Germany, meanwhile, is Nazi Germany and a major global rival.

 

[Matryoshka]

I think it'll be interesting to see how the Go4 try and reform Germany once they seize complete power from Speer, and to what extent they are actually willing to correct the wrongs of the past. As it stands, while the Go4 is undoubtably the best path for Germany, I have quite a few concerns that their continued domination over Eastern Europe would develop into something akin to the neo-imperialism conducted by western powers in our modern day.

In any case, I made an effort post on the reddit on why Ryzhkov should be Zhukov's canon successor.

 

[Whiteshore]

In any case, I made an effort post on the reddit on why Ryzhkov should be Zhukov's canon successor.

Well, I would say that Ryzhkov's USSR would be a more interesting opponent for the United States than Akhromeyev's USSR and also one which could be more powerful and influential than Akhromeyev's USSR.

 

[Matryoshka]

Well, I would say that Ryzhkov's USSR would be a more interesting opponent for the United States than Akhromeyev's USSR and also one which could be more powerful and influential than Akhromeyev's USSR.

Indeed! Considering the United States canonically becomes (in all practicality) a one party state, I think it'd be fascinating for America, which has degenerated into a semi-democratic one party state, to face off against the USSR, which has reformed into a semi-democratic one party state. Oh, and China is there too I guess.

 

[Whiteshore]

Indeed! Considering the United States canonically becomes (in all practicality) a one party state, I think it'd be fascinating for America, which has degenerated into a semi-democratic one party state, to face off against the USSR, which has reformed into a semi-democratic one party state. Oh, and China is there too I guess.

And I imagine Ryzhkovism would be more appealing than Akhromeyevism in terms of the ideological package it would offer as well.

 

[DannyPlayz989]

What happens with the first thing that the natives democratically vote for being a call demanding all the German settlers to GTFO off their stolen land, and have their assets confiscated? Unlike, say... modern day US or South Africa, this isn't a case of 'While the lands were taken using morally reprehensible means via settler colonialism, it was my ancestors who did that, and my family have been living here for generations by this point'. Considering that outside of the Volga Germans, all the settlers were there for only a few decades, and many of the people that they displace and stolen from are still very much alive?

Deporting

Deep reflections like these is why I am fascinated by the world that the TNO mod created.

As someone who became increasingly interested in strategy, grand strategy and essentially "what are the ingredients that make a country into a great power?" in the last decade. I think that it is completely naïve to think that a Go4 Germany that has reformed would hand over Moskowien to Russia without a fight and for the promise of an economic and military alliance with Russia instead.
In TNO's Universe, the outcome of WW2 was a grand strategic victory for Germany of near unprecedented proportions in human history. The only historical precedent I can think of is the "end of history" moments of the 1990s were American superpower status and liberal hegemony were briefly unquestioned.
Here is a non-exhaustive list of what Germany managed to achieve in TNO's WW2 strategically:
- Pushing beyond its 1914 boundaries by adding Austria, Czechia, Bialystok and most of Wielkopolska. This in itself would be a major win on its own!
- Destroying France as a strategic rival and corrupting any hope of recovery by setting up a cancerous artificial state into what used to be the birthplace of the French nation itself. This is another huge win and the accomplishment of key goal of German foreign policy since 1870!
- Dismantling the United Kingdom and turned it from a world-spanning empire into a small impoverished island on the edge of Europe. Unlike France, the former UK has a better chance of recovering some semblance of great power status. But one cannot underestimate the fact that for the first time in post feudal history, the UK has been invaded and occupied by an enemy power. This in itself is bound to have massive consequences of the psyche of the nation, some good and some bad. I am for a start quite surprised that the UK isn't far more revanchist in TNO that it could be given these circumstances. This is another big win as Nazi Germany accomplished the Wilhelmine dream of supremacy over its British foe!
- De facto annexing Denmark and the Netherlands. This means that Germany now has direct controls of the Baltic belt straights and direct control of the key harbours and trade route that govern the flow of goods and and from continental Europe. Unlike Eastern Europe, holding into both territories long-term is actually very well possible with the right policies. In Nazi racial discourse both the Dutch and Scandinavians were seen as "brother races" whose destiny was to be eventually assimilated into constituent parts of the Volk. Neither Dutch or Danes will be persecuted unlike Slavs and Balts so in TNO they can plausibly become eventually parts of a Greater German nation in the same way as Austrians, Bavarians or Bohemians are.
- Establishing direct control over Eastern Europe. This in itself was a key goal in WW1 and Nazi Germany surpassed Brest-Litovsk here. Sure while the cost of controlling the territories may be more than the benefits it derives from it. A number of factor make this colonization of Eastern Europe different from the colonization of Asia and Africa. To begin, there is direct road and rail access to the colonized territories so transport costs will be lower and there isn't a need for a vast navy to control trade routes etc.

Any German politician who would want to give up these hard won strategic gains would likely be seen as a traitor and depicted as such. So I think that we can forget about the Go4 handing Moskowien peacefully at all ...

What about general German culture and the feelings of average Germans in TNO's Universe?

Well I would for a start expect the average German to have more than a chip of their shoulders. They will consider their position as "masters of Europe" to be the natural order of thing and feel the same pride towards it that some Britons still feel towards their former Empire. Even in a Go4 Germany, antisemitism will be rife and documents like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion will be widely considered as "proof" that there was and perhaps still is a malevolent Jewish plot against the country. Nobody will really care about the fate of the Jews and nobody would really bother asking difficult questions. The clean Wehrmacht myth will be completely unquestioned, especially as it will be easy to point out fingers towards "those SS madmen in Burgundy".
Considering the slave system, I would expect most Slavs and Balts to be seen as nothing more than "peasant people" whose place in the natural order of things is to be servants, laborers, maids or even worse for their German masters. Slavery is an institution that breaks the minds of slaves and corrupt the minds of enslavers. OTL United States is still grappling with the legacy of it. TNO's Germany will be corrupted by it even if the Go4 takes power.
The added fact that Slavs and Balts were genocided for a time will corrupt things even more and add another layer of toxicity to the mix. One that will be conveniently forgotten if the Go4 takes power.

Oh and another thing to forget is that we can't expect the German settlers in the Eastern territories to leave or surrender their pre-eminent positions that easily. This will also imply some form of de facto or de jure apartheid as well. Even in a Go4 victory scenario, German settlers will dominate the economic life of the Baltics, Ukraine and Moskowien. Nobody will really care about changing this and inequalities between the populations will be firmly entrenched. Historical discourses around the Drang Nacht Osten and past episodes of German settlers contributing to modernising Russia and the East will be dominant and taught in every school in the German sphere.

TLDR: It's irrealistic to expect even a Go4 Germany to give up any territories without a fight as it has won a major victory to gain them in the first place.

As GO4N during the 2WRW is still a shadow goverment, this will not end in peace.

 

[Matryoshka]

And I imagine Ryzhkovism would be more appealing than Akhromeyevism in terms of the ideological package it would offer as well.

This is also especially important, considering the fact that the USSR in TNO is supposed to be winning the Cold War against the declining and stagnating OFN.

 

[Whiteshore]

This is also especially important, considering the fact that the USSR in TNO is supposed to be winning the Cold War against the declining and stagnating OFN.

I highly doubt that people in Latin America, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, or Southeast Asia would be inspired by the idea of being under a military autocracy with red paint whereas they would be inspired by the idea of a semi-democratic Leninism.

 

[Dunois]

I can see it happening in the case where German hegemony in the east completely collapsed during the civil war and could not be resumed afterwards for some reason or another. But in that case it would be less a case of "handing over Moskowien peacefully" and more a matter of abandoning territory that they don't actually hold or control and may not have any realistic method of holding or controlling.

Actually, this would be more likely for imploded Göring or Heydrich Germany, since they have little or no effective ability to contest the Russians in the east anyway and thus can't realistically resist whoever unified Russia marching in and kicking out the settlers.

In a post Heydrich Germany I even wouldn't be surprised if the Western Russian unifier walks in and takes over Moskowien around 1967 or 1968 or shortly after their war with Finland. It would be somewhat messy and bloody but retaking Moksowien would provide the unifier with immense "street cred" in the eyes of all Russians and make it nigh-impossible for another unifier to challenge them.

 

[brooklyn99]

I don't think these would be perceived as "really obviously bad" by the United States compared to Germany (even under the Gang of Four). Tuk is basically Red Napoleon/Red Yazov, and people would probably view him sympathetically. Kaganovich is just Stalin, IIRC, and, well, it's not like the U.S. didn't butter up Stalin in World War II OTL. Germany, meanwhile, is Nazi Germany and a major global rival.

Tukhachevsky is viewed as the Red Napoleon as he is infamous in playing a principal role in trying forcefully spread Communism in Europe, with the Polish-Soviet war in addition to his being an open authoritarian and openly militaristic that has lead him to being dubbed by the fandom as "Red Yazov", since he may end up provoking Germany into using nukes. Thus, in comparison to a GO4 Germany that is much more tamed seems to be moving towards democracy, i'd assume public opinion of OFN nations would be veered against him. As for Kaganovich "just Stalin" is nothing less than a condemnation, since Stalin was an utter bastard OTL and would be even more remembered as such without WW2. The lend-lease, after all, was America propping up what was the lesser of evils against Nazism. In a scenario when Kaganovich is facing off a democratizing German, however, it may be viewed differently. (OTOH, Omsk at least understands the utility of appearing as a restrained "developmental authoritarian" who aims to eventually transition to a democratic form of government in order to influence favourable public opinion).

This is also especially important, considering the fact that the USSR in TNO is supposed to be winning the Cold War against the declining and stagnating OFN.

I don't think the devs said anything about the USSR "winning", so much as the OFN decline ends up resulting in a non-polar world, with no clear hegemon. Besides I am certainly doubtful of a USSR that had won a limited victory in WRW2, and is dealing with the long term consequences of the post-WW2 collapse, having an actual chance of coming on top, considering that OTL USSR had every higher advantage and yet still lost.

 

[ThirdyLovesAH]

I don't think the devs said anything about the USSR "winning", so much as the OFN decline ends up resulting in a non-polar world, with no clear hegemon. Besides I am certainly doubtful of a USSR that had won a limited victory in WRW2, and is dealing with the long term consequences of the post-WW2 collapse, having an actual chance of coming on top, considering that OTL USSR had every higher advantage and yet still lost.

I will agree to this part. IMO, Russia or whoever reunifies Russia will not overtake OFN. Given the fact that W. Russia has a history of being bombed by German Bombers, it has a long way to fully recover.

 

[Impirius]

I will agree to this part. IMO, Russia or whoever reunifies Russia will not overtake OFN. Given the fact that W. Russia has a history of being bombed by German Bombers, it has a long way to fully recover.

Also the necessary global socialist presence isn't guaranteed to materialize.