The New Order: Last Days of Europe - An Axis Victory Cold War Mod for HoIIV

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Also devs confirmed that all four contenders for Duce position will be fascist ideology wise, there will be no hidden natsoc/ultranat path as I originally suspected.
 
Also devs confirmed that all four contenders for Duce position will be fascist ideology wise, there will be no hidden natsoc/ultranat path as I originally suspected.
they all are just different interpretations of what ''fascism'' is.
Muti for example wants fascism to go back to Sansepolcrismo from what I understood & Giani wants to make something new
 
I'm so happy canon is gone.
I have mixed feelings, but overall lean in favor of removing canon. The proposed TNO2/3 dev canon was certainly interesting and brought up some interesting questions about the ramifications of an (alternate) cold war and some metacommentary on the narratives that surround "winning" such a conflict.

On the other hand, delineating a canon winner/unifier/leader/path/result was absolutely detrimental to my enjoyment of the mod, delegitimizing emotional and intellectual investment in all other options. This was tougher in some cases than others. For example, I remember thinking the canon for Germany 1963 was creative (the canon appointment is an ideologically motivated process, but the actual winning successor is a different, more practical victor who implements realpolitik and builds a broad coalition of established but conflicting interests), and yet I still felt I couldn't invest as much into the other successors. Alternatively, I remember greatly disliking the canon for Russia and America. Zhukov is a very interesting route, but the limitation of his post-unification actions and the semi-reversion to "classic USSR-ness" feels just the slightest bit "safe" in contrast to the set-ups and ideological variation that makes Russia 1962 so interesting (also, personal bias: I don't like CyberNovosibirsk 2077 and Matakogadan as canon regional unifiers, but that's just my preference). In America, this was summarily flawed in execution. They went through the whole route of designing the NPP as this wacky Frankenstein product of strange historical confluences and then...they never win? Never get any office? Never influence a major political development? A major wasted opportunity, in my opinion.

This new canon-free route is perhaps more conducive to invested exploration in the breadth and depth of all the various routes available in TNO. [Insert falsetto utopian voice] When nothing is canon, everything is canon!
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This means we could potentially once the 70s era get content see some really cursed outcomes like post-Bormann recovery+cold war victory for the Nazis, as well as maybe L-NPP dominance ending, albeit one that leaves the US in a really crippled state and cut off from the rest of the world(still think NPP-Y will be a massive WW3 failstate)

Regarding Canon: This also means TNO3 is cancelled, I expect the endless wave of KRG and KN style 21st century sequel mods being made but never realized in 5....4.....3....2.....1.
That actually is a good idea. I haven’t seen anyone think of a Japanese-American Cold War start date in the 90’s.
 
I have mixed feelings, but overall lean in favor of removing canon. The proposed TNO2/3 dev canon was certainly interesting and brought up some interesting questions about the ramifications of an (alternate) cold war and some metacommentary on the narratives that surround "winning" such a conflict.

On the other hand, delineating a canon winner/unifier/leader/path/result was absolutely detrimental to my enjoyment of the mod, delegitimizing emotional and intellectual investment in all other options. This was tougher in some cases than others. For example, I remember thinking the canon for Germany 1963 was creative (the canon appointment is an ideologically motivated process, but the actual winning successor is a different, more practical victor who implements realpolitik and builds a broad coalition of established but conflicting interests), and yet I still felt I couldn't invest as much into the other successors. Alternatively, I remember greatly disliking the canon for Russia and America. Zhukov is a very interesting route, but the limitation of his post-unification actions and the semi-reversion to "classic USSR-ness" feels just the slightest bit "safe" in contrast to the set-ups and ideological variation that makes Russia 1962 so interesting (also, personal bias: I don't like CyberNovosibirsk 2077 and Matakogadan as canon regional unifiers, but that's just my preference). In America, this was summarily flawed in execution. They went through the whole route of designing the NPP as this wacky Frankenstein product of strange historical confluences and then...they never win? Never get any office? Never influence a major political development? A major wasted opportunity, in my opinion.

This new canon-free route is perhaps more conducive to invested exploration in the breadth and depth of all the various routes available in TNO. [Insert falsetto utopian voice] When nothing is canon, everything is canon!
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What's particuarly jarring about 2WRW canon is that the person that forces Germany and Russia to the table is not MacNamara as people previously thought but McGovern. Now while this is IC for McGovern, it makes the US/OFN out to be uber-idealistic fools than some antagionistic force that will impose a not-so-good world order on it's own right.
 
What's particuarly jarring about 2WRW canon is that the person that forces Germany and Russia to the table is not MacNamara as people previously thought but McGovern. Now while this is IC for McGovern, it makes the US/OFN out to be uber-idealistic fools than some antagionistic force that will impose a not-so-good world order on it's own right.
That doesn’t make sense at all. I largely agree the canon was a mistake, but now the deluge of sequel mod ideas is going to be interesting.
 
What's particuarly jarring about 2WRW canon is that the person that forces Germany and Russia to the table is not MacNamara as people previously thought but McGovern. Now while this is IC for McGovern, it makes the US/OFN out to be uber-idealistic fools than some antagionistic force that will impose a not-so-good world order on it's own right.
Indeed. De-canonization can neatly do away with such paradoxes, perhaps matching responses to events like the 2WRW to the specific identities involved to some extent, or otherwise leave it to the (now freed) imaginations of the players.
That doesn’t make sense at all. I largely agree the canon was a mistake, but now the deluge of sequel mod ideas is going to be interesting.
I've long thought TNO could employ Kaiserreich's model of a in-depth foundation with a very open-ended spectrum of options that creative worldbuilders can craft into their own submod takes on possible results of the original scenario. And then, never, ever release them :p.
 
A dev in discord wrote this:
Given how this statement coincides with todays leak, I assume that means most, or even all, of the Quadrumvirate paths will not be fail states and can very well forge their own visions for Italy which will endure for the (foreseeable at least) future.

Understandable, after all I think that following the predeterminism that all authoritarian states will inevitably become dumpster fires and not amount to anything would've made such paths less fun and less fulfilling for the player when the game decides to make it all come to naught. Something similar could also be said about there being an official canon. Additionally, I think it does enhance TNO's bleakness more if there a more morally reprehensible states that are actually durable and formidable as opposed to being restrained paper tigers or ticking time bombs, however we wish otherwise.
 
About the canon being erased; on one hand I suppose it does make for a more immersive experience when you play as say, Vyatka, putting all of the WRRF leadership in front of a firing squad (except for Tukhachevsky- that gasser of villages and would-be child killer gets drowned in the freezing Artic waters beyond Arkhangelsk), set Lenin's corpse alight like an impromptu bonfire and stamp out the blood-red stain of Communism from the face of Russia, before embarking on the holy reconquest of the western territories from the Third Reich (and hopefully with no US sticking their noses in)- but what would then become of the 1972 start date for when TNO2 comes out? IIRC the devs reasoning for having a canon in the first place was just to set up the starting scenario for such a start date, so that probably means it's scrapped now?
 
Hey, just thought I'd share since this is TNO-adjacent. I've been lightly practicing my AH map skills (spending way, WAY too much time) and for fun did a "What if you had TNO-Russia style stuff happen to the U.S. in the Kaisserreich fictional universe" (still WIP, but it's coming along well). But just today I had a spectacularly dumb idea: "What if the U.S. from TNO had the stuff from Kaiserreich's U.S. happen to it"? Like, you've got a "worst of all worlds" 1972 election where Hall and Yockey replace Reed and Long, the R-D do the PSA thing, and IDK Westmoreland or Lemay are MacArthur. Thoughts?
 
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Another message from the dev:

The dev confirmed to me what I thought: TNO2 will be a massive update all the way from 1962 rather than a new start date

That TNO2 will release only with a start date with predetermined outcomes seems like a common misconception. It's a moot point by now, but it bears repeating that TNO2, from the outset, was intended to feature an extra ten years of content for most playable-in-1962 countries alongside a start date halfway through.
 
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