The New Order: Last Days of Europe - An Axis Victory Cold War Mod for HoIIV

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I have some problems with it mostly since I'm a monarchist but it's more likely that Scorza would keep more conservative and therefore monarchist officers in power so I expect there to be a least some blowback from the military.
Conservative Scorza keeps the monarchy to my knowledge.
The radical true fascism Scorza abolishes the monarchy after his reforms for obvious reasons.
 
I have some problems with it mostly since I'm a monarchist but it's more likely that Scorza would keep more conservative and therefore monarchist officers in power so I expect there to be a least some blowback from the military.
Then again a Conservative Scorza keeps the Monarchy (Albeit as Puppets), while a Reform Scorza declares the formation of the Fascist Republic. Plus in the Reform path, Scorza has Blackshirts take the Royal Family hostage, purges monarchists from the military, and has Sogno (Leader of the Monarchist Faction in the Army) disappear.
 
I don't think it was said that America intervenes to save the German Reich and its rule over Eastern Europe, but rather that it intervenes to keep Russia from taking more then Moscow- in my interpretation this means propping up native governments in Eastern Europe, not maintaining German control.

Seriously, what are thoughts on Nenni being unable to remove the Monarchy in Italy, while a Reform Scorza can easily remove the monarchy in Italy?
Frankly I strongly dislike most things surrounding Scorza; you never get a sense of the societal roots of anything he's doing, or really him as a character, and his reformist path is a nonsensical meme route of the worst kind. I think fully reformist Scorza should be a REALLY GOOD IDEA with the military crushing his attempt at abolishing the monarchy and the people cheering because his idiotic economic policies wrecked the economy. Scorza is a nonsensical character with a nonsensical route, thank you for coming to my ted talk
 
I don't think it was said that America intervenes to save the German Reich and its rule over Eastern Europe, but rather that it intervenes to keep Russia from taking more then Moscow- in my interpretation this means propping up native governments in Eastern Europe, not maintaining German control.


Frankly I strongly dislike most things surrounding Scorza; you never get a sense of the societal roots of anything he's doing, or really him as a character, and his reformist path is a nonsensical meme route of the worst kind. I think fully reformist Scorza should be a REALLY GOOD IDEA with the military crushing his attempt at abolishing the monarchy and the people cheering because his idiotic economic policies wrecked the economy. Scorza is a nonsensical character with a nonsensical route, thank you for coming to my ted talk
110% agree hopefully when TNO2 comes out he'll be buggered up the arse with a jackhammer as either his memey reform path backfires as you suggested or his reactionary idiocy fails like all fascism and he falls as the Italian Empire collapses.
 
110% agree hopefully when TNO2 comes out he'll be buggered up the arse with a jackhammer as either his memey reform path backfires as you suggested or his reactionary idiocy fails like all fascism and he falls as the Italian Empire collapses.
The reformist path should certainly have a Royalist backlash in my opinion.
 
I think fully reformist Scorza should be a REALLY GOOD IDEA with the military crushing his attempt at abolishing the monarchy and the people cheering because his idiotic economic policies wrecked the economy.
Then again, for economics, one can still go reform via choosing the Autarky option as opposed to the delusional National-Syndicalist New Charter of Labour. Auturky is a neutral economic path.

For the most part, I feel like Reformist Scorza or his successor (Since he resigns in the end) ends up turning Italy into essentially an Italian Fascist version of Modern-day China, kind of like Speer. Whereas Conservative Scorza is like Bormann.
 
Perhaps but it seems like there is plenty of resistance, on so many levels. Like I feel some of this path is just one big old meme.


If this boils down to practically, and someone as numbers and 'logic' oriented as McNamara is in power which I think is the canon, than I can see this as his logic.
The problem is that it doesn't really make a great deal of sense even for McNamara. Putting Ukraine and Byelorussia in the Russian sphere instead of the German one means greatly weakening Germany by stripping them of important resources (and potentially providing a foothold for OFN forces to be standing directly on Germany's border, especially if HMMLR didn't win and join the OFN) while also creating problems for Russia, which now has to deal with the aftereffects of decades of German rule of those areas. Russia, meanwhile, is a much weaker state and both easier to influence (especially if democratic) and far less capable of realistically opposing the United States in a "geopolitical rival" sort of way than Germany is.

The idea that the United States would intervene to help out Germany and keep Russia from reclaiming its territory only makes sense if it seems that nuclear war is about to break out (since obviously no one wants that*), but I would expect Japan to also step in unless they were preoccupied with the Great Asian War if that was the case (again, nobody wants nuclear war). Otherwise, it's like the U.S. intervening to prevent the Warsaw Pact from breaking up--why would it do that when the Warsaw Pact collapsing meant that it won? Similarly here, if Russia controls traditionally Russian lands and Eastern European buffer territories, then the United States has won (at least so far as regards Germany). What President would try to stop that, aside from maybe the Yockeys?

Regardless when it comes out the option to take the risk will be available and i can see Zhukov into SocDem USSR working with the US somewhat fine,Sablin not really.
AuthSoc Sablin explicitly works with the United States and compromises on the economy, so not even him. Really just pure LibSoc Sablin would have problems with the United States.

* That is, no one but Himmler and his ilk, like Omsk. But I am assuming that we're dealing with sane Russian and American regimes, not nutters who wouldn't be interested in negotiating anyway.
 
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Another thing about Republican Scorza is that it to me it fails in the idea of TNO showing how fascism will always be a repressive regime. Unlike with San Marco Square there's no clear sign that he's oppressive after all he has arabic female blackshirts so he's an equal opportunity facisiat and that doesn't sit right with even my most absolutist monarchist tendencies. The reform path makes him out to be some sort of hyper woke progressive which does not fit with horrors of fascism.
 
Another thing about Republican Scorza is that it to me it fails in the idea of TNO showing how fascism will always be a repressive regime. Unlike with San Marco Square there's no clear sign that he's oppressive after all he has arabic female blackshirts so he's an equal opportunity facisiat and that doesn't sit right with even my most absolutist monarchist tendencies. The reform path makes him out to be some sort of hyper woke progressive which does not fit with horrors of fascism.
Then again, I kinda wish they made the Reform Scorza option more realistic, in the sense that a Reform Scorza tries to present himself as a Speer or a Deng Xiaoping (In that he makes life better and makes people happy, albeit people are still under the jackboot of authoritarianism). That being said, I do hear they are going to rework Italy including Scorza. I mean I find that his reforms are rather over the top, especially on his economic path. And I really cannot take the woke depiction of his reforms seriously.
 
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Given that Scorza plans to retire in his reform route I can see him creating a power vaccum that isn't easily fixed and this potentially degenerating Italy into a massive game of thrones esque battle for the position of Duce that can see anyone from corporatists to natsynds to a new Ciano figure come out on top. And Italy may get it's own Petlins and G4s as well.
 
Given that Scorza plans to retire in his reform route I can see him creating a power vaccum that isn't easily fixed and this potentially degenerating Italy into a massive game of thrones esque battle for the position of Duce that can see anyone from corporatists to natsynds to a new Ciano figure come out on top. And Italy may get it's own Petlins and G4s as well.
I am interested in seeing the successor choices for a Post-Scorza Fascist Italy.

Thus you have:
  • A New Ciano or Petlin/G4 Equivalent who bring about Democracy.
  • A Fascist Traditionalist who can literally undo Scorza's reforms doubling down on repression, and can possibly bring back the monarchy.
  • A Fascist Moderate who seeks to maintain the status quo of Scorza's Reforms.
  • A Fascist Corporatist that maintains Scorza's Social Reforms, albeit tries to readopt Mussolini's Government Structure and line of Fascism.
  • A Fascist National-Syndicalist with revolutionary rhetoric who think they can do even more reforms which is A VERY GOOD IDEA.
 
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So some speculations about the Arab Nationalists and the Oil Crisis:

I can see TNO2 content if Scorza dosen't kick their ass be based on their relation to Germany and their relation with pan-Arabism. My idea is that after they drive the Italians out, their movement splinters into various factions. You have a left wing(authsoc, maybe some libsoc), that wants independence from Germany, a more decolonization-emphasized foreign policy, and even align with Russia if one of the USSRs from. And on the right wing end of the spectrum, you have fascist(could be like Shaf or Oktan) and natsoc wings that are essentially anti-semites and Germanphilies, through Serov might be able to Sway them(side note: Would be a nice shoutout to Footprint of Mussolini if they were led by Michel Aflaq). Lastly you have despotist wings that are opportunists that have no concrete ideology except pan arab nationalism, and would play all sides in the Cold War to benefit the United Middle East.

This could potentially, if one side does not sweep to an overwhelming majority, lead to one final war for the Arabian Pennisula between the various Baathist wings depending on who comes out of the power struggle, or, in the most chaotic outcome, a Middle Eastern collapse that could see the rise of some lower tier players to the stage such as various secular or other Islamist movements, as well as a Natsoc SSNP led by a still living Antun Saddeh in Syria, or some cursed ultranat ISIS shit(role fit well by this guy).

This will affect the progression of the oil crisis. The OFN would want to see the opportunists and maybe some of the authsocs come out on top, and the former are at least more willing to secure diplomatic recognition and some resource deals with the OFN in exchange for support(the latter is very iffy). If Aflaq or whoever they have as the pro-Nazi comes out on top, Germany gets a boost, and the Gang of Four in the Speer puppet route will once again have to compromise with their values as the pro-Nazi candiate provides them a way out of the crisis.

If the final Middle Eastern war and the potential Middle Eastern collapse happens expect a global economic crash potentially spiraling into a massive depression.
 
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Another thing about Republican Scorza is that it to me it fails in the idea of TNO showing how fascism will always be a repressive regime. Unlike with San Marco Square there's no clear sign that he's oppressive after all he has arabic female blackshirts so he's an equal opportunity facisiat and that doesn't sit right with even my most absolutist monarchist tendencies. The reform path makes him out to be some sort of hyper woke progressive which does not fit with horrors of fascism.
Probably my biggest problem with Scorza is that we get so little of the perspective of his victims. TNO is usually so good at showing the lives that these regimes are destroying (there was one particularly memorable event in my Takagi run that showed that even with everything Takagi was doing Japan was still an Empire) but with Scorza there's so little of that. Let's see the results of his progressivism- let's get events hammering home that a jackboot worn by a black woman is still a jackboot. We get none of that with Scorza, and so he's a funni progressive Fascist like Burgundy was funni before we got the Cradle to Grave event.
 
Probably my biggest problem with Scorza is that we get so little of the perspective of his victims. TNO is usually so good at showing the lives that these regimes are destroying (there was one particularly memorable event in my Takagi run that showed that even with everything Takagi was doing Japan was still an Empire) but with Scorza there's so little of that. Let's see the results of his progressivism- let's get events hammering home that a jackboot worn by a black woman is still a jackboot. We get none of that with Scorza, and so he's a funni progressive Fascist like Burgundy was funni before we got the Cradle to Grave event.
Yeah as someone who would be eliminated by any fascists who took power while I like playing as them you need to to show that these are monsters as are their actions.
 
I think full reform Scorza might be similar to what people view modern day China. At what point does a reform to Fascism make it no longer Fascism? Similiar to at what point does Chinese brand of communism no longer communist?

If people say that China is not communist then perhaps same could be said for Italy. It is no longer Fascist it just call it self one.

Imagine modern day TNO American fascist decrying Italy as fake fascist. That will be fun.
 
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I made a tier list for the possible Russian outcomes, here is my final list


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If you want to make your own go here https://tiermaker.com/create/tno-russia-outcomes-cutting-room-floor-v2-606498
 

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I made a tier list for the possible Russian outcomes, here is my final list

If you want to make your own go here https://tiermaker.com/create/tno-russia-outcomes-cutting-room-floor-v2-606498
Good list. I'd bump Bunyachenko one rank or two since he's basically right wing Tukhachevsky/Pokryshkin without the pretense of democracy and with token social welfare.

Edit: Weinberg/shota aren't liberal democrats, SMH
Also conservative democracy being better or worse than libdem is pretty subjective (as all are opinions eh)
 
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Good list. I'd bump Bunyachenko one rank or two since he's basically right wing Tukhachevsky/Pokryshkin without the pretense of democracy and with token social welfare.

There’s a ideological bias there......

And Matovsky should be lower since his entire route is testing the waters to see how far fascism can be watered down and stick.
 
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