The New Order: Last Days of Europe - An Axis Victory Cold War Mod for HoIIV

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Probably Scorza Italy since Thailand probably won’t be in 1.0. I always love to play authoritarian nation that is not too evil.

American Glenn presidency is probably gonna be my second.
 
Finland would obviosly be my first choice but is it not left out from version 1.0 ? I suppose one could ”play” it without focus tree...
they had a leak a couple months ago of the Finnish tree? So I thought it was in version 1 but if it not then I will play prob something in Palestine
 

chankljp

Donor
I might start with a deliberately failing Goring game; I doubt I'm good enough to get past Italy, but MR SCHORNERS WILD RIDE should be fun

Or perhaps you can roleplay Goring as a sort of 'ISOT deep-cover liberal operative' that deliberately sabotage Germany from within by making sure that they will get bogged down fighting the Swiss, bleeding their military dry while utterly wrecking what is left of their post civil war economy with Goring's ponzi schemes... Ensuring that the Reich will not be in a position to be a global threat again for at least the next 50 years. :p
 
I might start with a deliberately failing Goring game; I doubt I'm good enough to get past Italy, but MR SCHORNERS WILD RIDE should be fun
I am considering a strongly successful Göring-game. Might be a lot of fun - until the numbers of the global ponzi schemes stop adding up.
 

chankljp

Donor

In tonight's special two part episode of TNO, the Chinese participate in damage control.

I am guessing that for each and every single one of China's 'Five Modernizations', you will end up running into hurdles and problems similar to this tree here that you will need to deal with, and if handled incorrectly without carefully balancing the interest of the Japanese and the local Chinese, you will end up with either Tokyo slapping Nanjing with the TNO TL's verison of the Soviet's reaction to Prague Spring, or a full scale uprising led by Dai Li that will try to pull an Omsk on the Japanese, with things ending very poorly for China.

Just as a reminder, Gao Zongwu's Five Modernizations are:
  1. Education
  2. Industrialization
  3. Technology
  4. Militarization
  5. Reunification
If this tree with the abuse of power and exploitation on the part of the Japanese Zaibatsus is the hurdle that you get when perusing industrialization, here are my guesses on the other obstacles for the rest of the modernisation programs:

- Education:
From what we have seen from that forcus tree, China will have to hire a lot of Japanese expats to work as teachers in order to improve the country's backwards education system. This will inevitably allow Tokyo to play a role in things such as determining the education curriculum, what you will be allowed to put into the textbooks, etc. Also, you will also need to be careful in addressing issues such as the elites and the wealthy all sending their kids to private schools run by the Japanese, or the next generations becoming pro-Japanese as a result of being taught in government school by their Japaneses Sensei, which could introduce a fifth column into your ranks when it comes time for the Great Asian War.

- Technology:
Assuming that the Japanese run the Co-Prosperity Sphere similar to the way that the Soviets ran Comecon, it will be in Tokyo's best interest to make sure that all the member states become as interdependent on the supply chain centred on Japan as possible. In OTL, there is a story about how Czechoslovakia desigining a state-of-the-art underground train that was allegedly technologically more advanced compared to even the capitalist West... However, in order to guaranteed profit for Moscow and jobs for Soviet workers, the the older, more expensive, and less effective Soviet designs were used instead. In the case of the Co-Prosperity Sphere, I can see the Japanese doing something similar: Suppressing the Chinese tech industry by having their more developed Japanese counterpart dump their products onto the market, making competition almost impossible. Hence, the only way for the Chinese tech sector to grow will be for Nanjing government to play an active role in doing things like promoting a 'Buy Chinese!' campaign, offering state subsidies for the infant industry, or outright ban Japanese tech imports... All of which will risk bringing down Tokyo's wrath as their own business interest complain about getting locked out of the Chinese market.

- Militarization:
This should be obvious, but any attempt in which China tries to grow it's own domestic military industrial complex and expand it's military capacity will absolutely get the IJA's attention. Especially if they are doing so without hiring Japanese instructors/trainers, not allowing the IJA to embed 'experts' with Chinese units, and the Chinese arms industries producing equipment of their own home grown designs instead of doing licensed production of standard Japanese gear. Tokyo is neither blind nor stupid, they will know something is up, and that you are not building all these arms and raising all these new units just to fight the insurgents.

- Reunification:
At this point, I think it will become more a case of annexing as much land that China have a claim on as possible before the Japanese finally decide that have had enough, sparking off the Great Asian War. Ironically, I predict that this will look a lot like the events leading to World War II, with Germany re-militarizing the Rhineland, annexing Austria and the Sudetenland, demanding Poland handover Danzig, etc.
 
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chankljp

Donor
Chan, what about Macau? Macau is often ignored since it was not directly invaded, but a Portuguese friend of mine said that the imperial army and the kempeitai would invade it from time to time to "search" for political dissidents and caused great many casualties.

It might be of interest to everyone that my own late grandfather (On my father's side of the family) actually fled to Macau during WW2. More accurately, he first fled from Chungshan (Modern day Zhongshan) in Mainland China to Hong Kong, and later, when the Japanese got to Hong Kong, he fled to Macau, thinking that it would have been safer there as the city was controlled by the neutral Portuguese... Only to end up finding out he wasn't the only person who had that idea, with the entire place overwhelmed with other refugees to the point that there simply weren't enough jobs or even food to go around, with him having witness many people simply starving to death in the streets. To make matters worst, the place eventually ended up targeted by Allied bombing exactly because of it's status as a neutral port, in order to prevent the Portuguese from selling resources to the Japanese, which inevitably ended up causing collateral damage on the civilian population (With the bombing raid being conducting via the USS Enterprise, the attack would have been butterflied in the TNO timeline).

In terms of the city's future in the TNO world.... Well, if the Portuguese couldn't even hold on to Angola, Mozambique, and Goa, I imagine that they might no be able to maintain their control on their East/South-East Asian colonies either. On the other hand, the dev did mentioned that the the Unity Pakt, Co-Prosperity Sphere, and OFN do conduct international trade with each other via intermediaries such as Brittany, India, Finland, etc, with their goods traveling though certain chokepoints such as the West Coast treaty ports. In that case, the Japanese might actually ask/demand that the Portuguese, and later Iberia to hold on to Macau (Even if the place is virtually a Japanese protectorate in all but name, with the Portuguese governor being only there symbolically to rubber stamp whatever his Japanese 'advisors' put in front of him), with Tokyo using it as a conduit to trade with Germany via the Triumvirate.

In fact, now that I think about it, Macau was already mentioned in one of the Japanese focus trees in the dev diaries:

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Then there is the issue of gambling. While it is currently illegal to gamble in most forms across Japan, there is a movement to legalise certain games. Takagi has the choice of legalizing gambling, modelled after the of policies in the city of Macau. While not quite as extreme as in the “Monte Carlo” of the east, it will open up a brand new market for the Keiretsu to utilise. Alternatively, he can legalise sports gambling across Japan, as a safer and more controlled deal.

In OTL, while gambling has always been legal in the colony since the 19th century, the city did not became the infamous 'Monte Carlo of the East' until the 1960s when Stanley Ho came along (For those interested, I have talked about him over in the 'Miscellaneous Fallout-verse Ideas' thread, in which others there have compared to to a 'real-life Bond villain'... Seriously, this have gambling operations going on in freaking North Korea ). So the fact that the Japanese government would consider using Macau as a source of inspiration on how to reform their own country's gambling system means that the gambling is still a thing for the city in the TNO TL... Suggesting that even if it is not longer a Portuguese colony, the gambling tourism industry is still a thing there.
 
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It might be of interest to everyone that my own late grandfather (On my father's side of the family) actually fled to Macau during WW2. More accurately, he first fled from Chungshan (Modern day Zhongshan) in Mainland China to Hong Kong, and later, when the Japanese got to Hong Kong, he fled to Macau, thinking that it would have been safer there as the city was controlled by the neutral Portuguese... Only to end up finding out he wasn't the only person who had that idea, with the entire place overwhelmed with other refugees to the point that there simply weren't enough jobs or even food to go around, with him having witness many people simply starving to death in the streets. To make matters worst, the place eventually ended up targeted by Allied bombing exactly because of it's status as a neutral port, in order to prevent the Portuguese from selling resources to the Japanese, which inevitably ended up causing collateral damage on the civilian population (With the bombing raid being conducting via the USS Enterprise, the attack would have been butterflied in the TNO timeline).

In terms of the city's future in the TNO world.... Well, if the Portuguese couldn't even hold on to Angola, Mozambique, and Goa, I imagine that they might no be able to maintain their control on their East/South-East Asian colonies either. On the other hand, the dev did mentioned that the the Unity Pakt, Co-Prosperity Sphere, and OFN do conduct international trade with each other via intermediaries such as Brittany, India, Finland, etc, with their goods traveling though certain chokepoints such as the West Coast treaty ports. In that case, the Japanese might actually ask/demand that the Portuguese, and later Iberia to hold on to Macau (Even if the place is virtually Japanese protectorate with Portuguese governor being only there symbolically to rubber stamp whatever his Japanese 'advisors' put in front of him), with Tokyo using it as a conduit to trade with Germany via the Triumvirate.

In fact, how that I think about it, Macau was already mentioned in one of the Japanese focus trees in the dev diaries:



In OTL, while gambling has always been legal in the colony since the 19th century, the city did not became the infamous 'Monte Carlo of the East' until the 1960s when Stanley Ho came along (For those interested, I have talked about him over in the 'Miscellaneous Fallout-verse Ideas' thread, in which others there have compared to to a 'real-life Bond villain'... Seriously, this have gambling operations going on in freaking North Korea ). So the fact that the Japanese government would consider using Macau as a source of inspiration on how to reform their own country's gambling system means that the gambling is still a thing for the city in the TNO TL... Suggesting that even if it is not longer a Portuguese colony, the gambling tourism industry is still a thing there.

Well, thanks...

I hope they still speak portuguese and patuá (macau hybrid of portuguese and mandarin) along with mandarin. It is beautifull:
 
Since nuke will start to fly when nuclear power core territory is captured is there any possibility for reunify Russian to invade Germany proper? Would it be more like conquering just RK moskowien and make the fight cost too much for Germany thus forcing them to settle for peace?

Of course I assume some more extreme Russian warlord might not care about it...
 
Since nuke will start to fly when nuclear power core territory is captured is there any possibility for reunify Russian to invade Germany proper? Would it be more like conquering just RK moskowien and make the fight cost too much for Germany thus forcing them to settle for peace?

Of course I assume some more extreme Russian warlord might not care about it...

RK Moskowien, probably. RK Kaukasia, maybe. RK Ostland (or what's left of it, inevitably) would be severely pushing it. The more reformist and pragmatic elements within the Reich (i.e. Speer, Bormann, and MAYBE Spiedel), I imagine, would be more willing to just let the territories comprising RK Moskowien go, yet since I'm not a dev or a writer I can't state specifics or confirm this,

Any further, I imagine, would just be asking for a war that's more than conventional. Such a war, depending on how many nukes Russia has (if any), could range from "a Pyrrhic victory for the Reich" at best to "mutually assured destruction" at worst. And that's if Japan and the United States don't get involved, and there is no guarantee that they would stay out of such a mess, either...
 

chankljp

Donor
Of course I assume some more extreme Russian warlord might not care about it...

Or in the case of Omsk, causing a nuclear holocaust will be a bonus considering that they want to punish not just the Germans, but also the entire world for 'abandoning' Russia when the coutry was invaded during WW2. In fact, I imagine Omsk and some of the crazier warlords operating under a 'Maoist' way of thinking along the lines of:

'Russia is already devastated, meaning that a nuclear war will not actually change the situation that much for us. And compared to the rest of the world, the Russian people are already accustomed to living in a post apocalyptic environment, hence this will enable us to level the playing field, and come up on top in the end!'

RK Moskowien, probably. RK Kaukasia, maybe. RK Ostland (or what's left of it, inevitably) would be severely pushing it. The more reformist and pragmatic elements within the Reich (i.e. Speer, Bormann, and MAYBE Spiedel), I imagine, would be more willing to just let the territories comprising RK Moskowien go, yet since I'm not a dev or a writer I can't state specifics or confirm this,

I think that both Ostland and Ukraine will be really pushing it, considering the large number of German settlers living in the former, and the Unity Pakt's dependency on food exports from the latter.

Also, I think that the reformist elements of the Reich will in fact be more pressured into pushing back against the Russians, since their policies would have already been unpopular with the Nazi establishment, with the hardliners already foaming at the mouth with their liberal tendencies, and will be looking to do everything in their power to remove someone like Speer from office. Hence, losing Moskowien (Which, legally speaking, is a as German as East Prussia or Elsass-Lothringen) will give them to perfect excuse to give him the 'Khrushchev' treatment.

The only person that I think can realistically get away with losing Moskowien and survive the political fallout will be Bormann, in a 'Only Nixon could go to China' kind of way, since he already have the conservatives on his side.
 
Wait: could the Communist texts the students that form the DSR not be just Marx's works, but Lenin and his ATL successors? I think considering the violent nature of the DSR, it would make much more sense for them to be inspired just as much by Soviet communism than just Marx and Engels: think of the mass, organised terror inflicted by Lenin and Trotsky in the Russian Civil War as a blueprint for what the DSR's atrocities in Germany. (I know the official explanation is "they're read Marx, but they're still so embittered they still want to purge everyone", but I am interested in explaining HOW this happens)

Say a Commissar in the last days of the Eastern Front is mugged by a Wehrmacht Landser who proceeds to take his stuff— including a copy of the State and Revolution. Then, not sure what to do with them, he sells them on the black market to a curious customer back in Germany, who then wonders what the book says, illicitly translates it into German, thinks these ideas are good, and then makes copies of the translation to send to his friends. (I mean, this isn't how the German socialist movement begins as a whole; but imagine this happening in conjunction with hundreds of other similar events)

The DSR could style themselves as the Leninist Vanguard Party, the most class-conscious revolutionaries who protect the revolution and the "purity" of the ideology in the name of the less enlightened proletariat. Maybe they could even go a step further than the Soviet communists and declare that Bakunin's regime fell because they're were too much of a deviation from Lenin, styling themselves as Lenin's true successors (interestingly making themselves the closest version of a Stalinist regime ITTL) and denouncing the post-Soviet successor states as corrupt and needing "liberation" from their "fallen" rulers. (Their rhetoric of course ignores the fact that Bakunin's market policies were a continuation of Lenin's NEP)
 
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Since everyone on reddit seem to be theorizing about secret socdem path from the leak.

Wouldn’t they just be another extremist group rather than socdem people hope for? I know “socialist” group still exist as can be seen in small part of student who support Speer but I never thought there will be actual socdem in that group.
 
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